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skiing forward, racers, and ski design

post #1 of 12
Thread Starter 

I have two questions related to skiing forward, CoM over feet, whatever you want to call it. First one has to do with racers:

 

 

 

 How are these not considered backseat? Or are they? If so, why is it okay? In my own skiing, I've felt the need to get into a similar position when going fast.

 

 

Second question is about ski design. Why are they designed to have the skinniest part of the ski and the foot/binding slightly behind from center? I'm sure there's a good reason, but if they were designed to be centered, would it be easier for people to have their weight in the correct spot?

post #2 of 12
I suspect that these pictures were taken at transition, when the downhill leg was flexed to relese the edge, and skis were flat.
Don't try to ski like this all the time.
post #3 of 12
Thread Starter 

True,  but it still looks similar mid-turn, just not as pronounced. Took these from Bob Barnes' video, like at 3:49 - 3:50 for example:

 

post #4 of 12
Nemesis, there are about a bazillion threads on getting forward, staying forward, why do we want our hips forward, is this aft?, etc...including one we just got done with whose title escapes me at the moment. (Sorry no links, but if you type in the above phrases you should find them smile.gif )

I would start there-- lots and lots of good material that should (more, not less) answer your questions.

Spoiler--the racer whose pics you have posted is (most likely anyways) not backseat...research why!

zenny
post #5 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by nemesis256 View Post
 

I have two questions related to skiing forward, CoM over feet, whatever you want to call it. First one has to do with racers:

 

 

 

 How are these not considered backseat? Or are they? If so, why is it okay? In my own skiing, I've felt the need to get into a similar position when going fast.

 

 

Second question is about ski design. Why are they designed to have the skinniest part of the ski and the foot/binding slightly behind from center? I'm sure there's a good reason, but if they were designed to be centered, would it be easier for people to have their weight in the correct spot?

 

How are these not considered backseat?

 

some people would consider it backseat but picture can never truly show if someone is in balance or not.

 

Or are they?

 

depends on your point of view but again its a picture.

 

If so, why is it okay?

 

Its ok because foot squirt let you move into a turn fast than being 'forward" at the edge change. the Bob Barnes video is trying to explain why foot squirt is ok.

 

http://www.epicski.com/t/99527/reconciling-foot-squirt-with-foragonal-movements here is way more in depth article on what is going on and why it is actually a good thing.

 

Balance in skiing is not about standing in one place or your 'stance" I HATE that term"stance" to me it implies that we are not moving. Its about being able to move though space and time in the most efficient and/or the most dynamic way possible. Ask yourself what is the quickest way to become 'forward" at the apex turn and the answer is what in these pictures and what is explained in Bob Barnes video.

post #6 of 12
Just thought of it (the most recent ) : instructors, do you teach moving forward at initiation? Maybe from a couple months ago if memory serves??

zenny
post #7 of 12

Yes, but forward in the new direction (downhill), not forward toward the tips of the skis.

post #8 of 12
I like to call it forward toward where you are going next.

You can be "in the back seat" visually in a picture's very brief moment but not skiing on the backs of the skis/boots.
post #9 of 12
Thread Starter 

I'm understanding this a little better now.

 

Any insight on the question about ski design?

post #10 of 12

The medicine ball video does not speak to fore/aft balance, only lateral balance.  The ball can be caught and tossed from the back seat, just as it can from center or fore.  Bode was a great back seat ball player.  

post #11 of 12

I get the principal, but find the medicine ball video/analogy confusing. The first animation represents the upper body catching and releasing the ball. That makes me feel like I should be moving my upper body to stay ahead of the ball. But then the upper body morphs into the ball and the ball morphs into your lower body/skis. As a visual learner,  the representation of the upper body moving gets stuck in my head.

 

Sorry, just saying.

post #12 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by nemesis256 View Post



Second question is about ski design. Why are they designed to have the skinniest part of the ski and the foot/binding slightly behind from center? I'm sure there's a good reason, but if they were designed to be centered, would it be easier for people to have their weight in the correct spot?


Here is a excerpt from Skiing Mechanics by John Howe with one possible explanation to your question:

Quote:
John Howe, Skiing Mechanics, pg41




…Binding placement standardization has been proposed by the ASTM ski safety committees. Most new boots have a midpoint boot mark that should be aligned with corresponding marked on the ski. This has the advantage of placing small or large boots in the same centered position on the ski. As a general rule, this mid boot location is about 6 inches behind the mid-chord length of the ski (6 inches behind the toe of a normal boot) and 3 inches behind the ski running surface midpoint. The result is that the center of forces acting through the leg, ankle, and boot concentrate on the ski about 9 to 10 inches behind the mid cord length of the ski. This coincides nicely with the typical narrowest point in the side cut, although it it is usually behind the flex center of the ski…
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