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Binding Malfunction

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
Note to moderator: I wasn't sure if this is the correct forum for my concern. Please feel free to move it to a more appropriate forum, if necessary.

I had a death defying crash yesterday. Went to try some skis on demo day. While carving a steep pitch carrying 50-60 mph, something didn't feel right. So I looked down to see that my right ski was missing. I don't have what it takes to recover from a shock like that and ski down on one ski so I crashed. Somersaulted end to end 3 times before coming to rest, fortunately on soft powder. Walked away with bruised ribs and sore neck and hip muscles. Very lucky.

Upon inspection I found that the binding was down on my right ski. Like it wasn't even clicked in! What could be possible reasons for this?

Now I was possibly feeling very humble in the morning so I put skier Type 2 (intermediate) on the form. It resulted in a 5.5 DIN setting. The setting on my own ski is 7. Could this have been a possible cause?

As far as the way I was skiing it wasn't particularly aggressive. I was trying a pair of good frontside carvers and trying to rip a good run, that's all.

The only positive thing I could take away from experience is that I should probably classify myself as an "Expert" (Type 3) next time.
post #2 of 25

If you really were going 50 to 60 mph with a pair of carving skis and trying to make a "good" turn, you would have to tip those carving skis substantially.  A carving ski tipped that far would be trying to turn pretty tight, trying to turn much tighter than the turn you were trying to make.  If a clump of denser snow, bump or other irregularity should interact with the tip of the ski and give it the sudden grip it needs to make the turn you dialed up with that tipping angle one of two things is going to happen: the ski turns, you don't the binding doesn't release and you break your leg or the ski turns, you don't, binding releases and you have to ski on one ski. 

 

Stopping on one ski, given that you've already proven how easy the ski is going to come of if you get it too sideways is the hard part.  Best to gradually turn uphill if you can.  Even better to get some long radius skis if you're going to be skiing fast.  I understand that sometimes it's hard to resist; that's why I set the binding at 3+.

 

It's also best to self-test the demo bindings by seeing how hard it is to step out of them: I once rented demos that would release if you looked at them sideways. Set at III, they could be shaken off my ski boot just by shaking my foot in the air.

post #3 of 25
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the quick reply.

Your analysis is quite correct. The turning radius was on the skis was 13. I was probably making larger GS turns with it at that time. The trail was a groomed trail but fairly chopped up by the afternoon.
post #4 of 25

We don't know your height/weight, age, binding manufacturer and boot size, so anything suggested here is hearsay. However, 60mph speeds are type 3+. I've personally popped out three times when carving due to low DIN settings and it's very dangerous. (two pairs I'd borrowed from friends; the other I'd purchased and miraculously skied for several hours on before popping out at mach schnell, not realizing the DIN hadn't been moved from the lowest possible setting!)

 

On the flipside, one good way to risk your life is to ski faster than your skill level. I'm not saying this specifically applies to you without seeing you ski, but I'd be irresponsible not to put it out there.

post #5 of 25

Skier Type IS NOT ability. I hate it when this get's said.

 

You say the "binding was down"... that means you released from the toe. Did anyone inspect the binding and how it was adjusted after the crash? What I am wondering is, was the forward pressure adjusted correctly? Many demo bindings have a 'good enough' approach to forward pressure which, frankly, terrifies me.

 

Maybe the thread title could be 'adjusted'... this was almost definitely a 'release' not a 'malfunction' (by the binding, anyway).

post #6 of 25
Should I say it? 50-60 mph on a 13m ski... And feeling something wrong and looking down, just happened to notice a ski was missing. OK. smile.gif
post #7 of 25

Death defying ???  Really???  :rolleyes

post #8 of 25
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the good advice Metaphor_

Whiteroom, I was wondering the same thing about the binding being down. I took the skis back and had them look at it. They couldn't find anything wrong.
post #9 of 25
post #10 of 25

post #11 of 25
Thread Starter 
Wow! The videos gone but that sounds a lot worse than my experience. Tree! Banged head! So it's called a "prerelease" smile.gif
Thanks for sharing.
post #12 of 25
Thread Starter 
Just to be clear, I wasn't skiing on one ski and happened to look down and notice it. That would be kind of funny. I had just completed a right turn and was switching my weight to my right leg when it didn't feel right. The ski must've released a split second before that. Probably during the momentary weightlessness.
post #13 of 25
Thread Starter 
"I got shot..."
post #14 of 25
Generally speaking, when a ski comes off at 50-60 mph, the results are pretty instantaneous and often catastrophic.
post #15 of 25
Thrill of victory-Agony of defeat.
post #16 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by slider View Post

Thrill of victory-Agony of  one feat.

fixed!

post #17 of 25
Thread Starter 
Lol

Agony of deribs
post #18 of 25

did you see your life flash before your eyes, hear voices etc??? Would winter tires have helped?    Enquiring minds would like to know......:D      :popcorn

 

and of course after an incident of such magnitude you did replace your helmet,  right??

post #19 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotsSkier View Post
 

did you see your life flash before your eyes, hear voices etc??? Would winter tires have helped?    Enquiring minds would like to know......:D      :popcorn

 

and of course after an incident of such magnitude you did replace your helmet,  right??

Come on...............Why the sarcasm? .................... ;):ROTF

post #20 of 25
For real? Carving at 50 to 60 mph and you look down to notice your ski is missing? Unless you're Lane Meyer I call shenanigans.
post #21 of 25
& almost as much fun is catching that outside edge.
post #22 of 25
I'm guessing someone was pegged at about 30.
post #23 of 25

Okay, time for the breakdown:

 

-You say you were skiing at 50-60mph on a 13m radius carver.

-You had your DINs set to 5.5 due to considering yourself a Type 2 skier

-Your regular DINs are set at 7, which indicates an intermediate skier if you are an adult male of average height and weight. 

-You were confused about the heel piece still being engaged after you came out of the ski. 

 

Those facts do not go together. Therefore, they cannot all be true. Skiing 50-60mph on a 13m carver is something that is nearly impossible. It is so difficult that it can only be done by the best skiers, skiers with a great deal of knowledge and experience. Skiers with a great deal of knowledge and experience do not consider themselves Type 2, and would know that if a ski is set to 5.5 they shouldn't be attempting to ski at high speed. Also, a skier with a great deal of knowledge and experience would know that if their ski prereleases due to too much torque mid-turn, it will release at the toe, and they will expect the heel piece to still be engaged. They wouldn't be so surprised about it that they would think it is a malfunction, or think to talk about it on an internet forum. 

 

All that being said, the most likely conclusion is that you were going somewhere in the vicinity of 20-25mph, and the demo binding was set to too low a DIN, and didn't have the forward pressure set correctly. This caused you to toe out of the binding. It happens all the time, and isn't the least bit unusual or unexpected. 

post #24 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeski919 View Post
 

Okay, time for the breakdown:

 

-You say you were skiing at 50-60mph on a 13m radius carver.

-You had your DINs set to 5.5 due to considering yourself a Type 2 skier

-Your regular DINs are set at 7, which indicates an intermediate skier if you are an adult male of average height and weight. 

-You were confused about the heel piece still being engaged after you came out of the ski. 

 

Those facts do not go together. Therefore, they cannot all be true. Skiing 50-60mph on a 13m carver is something that is nearly impossible. It is so difficult that it can only be done by the best skiers, skiers with a great deal of knowledge and experience. Skiers with a great deal of knowledge and experience do not consider themselves Type 2, and would know that if a ski is set to 5.5 they shouldn't be attempting to ski at high speed. Also, a skier with a great deal of knowledge and experience would know that if their ski prereleases due to too much torque mid-turn, it will release at the toe, and they will expect the heel piece to still be engaged. They wouldn't be so surprised about it that they would think it is a malfunction, or think to talk about it on an internet forum. 

 

All that being said, the most likely conclusion is that you were going somewhere in the vicinity of 20-25mph, and the demo binding was set to too low a DIN, and didn't have the forward pressure set correctly. This caused you to toe out of the binding. It happens all the time, and isn't the least bit unusual or unexpected. 


But their phone app says they ski that fast all the time...:dunno  at least I am betting that is the response to what everyone else here knows and agrees with above hahaha

post #25 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeski919 View Post
 

Okay, time for the breakdown:

 

-You say you were skiing at 50-60mph on a 13m radius carver.

-You had your DINs set to 5.5 due to considering yourself a Type 2 skier

-Your regular DINs are set at 7, which indicates an intermediate skier if you are an adult male of average height and weight. 

-You were confused about the heel piece still being engaged after you came out of the ski. 

 

Those facts do not go together. Therefore, they cannot all be true. Skiing 50-60mph on a 13m carver is something that is nearly impossible. It is so difficult that it can only be done by the best skiers, skiers with a great deal of knowledge and experience. Skiers with a great deal of knowledge and experience do not consider themselves Type 2, and would know that if a ski is set to 5.5 they shouldn't be attempting to ski at high speed. Also, a skier with a great deal of knowledge and experience would know that if their ski prereleases due to too much torque mid-turn, it will release at the toe, and they will expect the heel piece to still be engaged. They wouldn't be so surprised about it that they would think it is a malfunction, or think to talk about it on an internet forum. 

 

All that being said, the most likely conclusion is that you were going somewhere in the vicinity of 20-25mph, and the demo binding was set to too low a DIN, and didn't have the forward pressure set correctly. This caused you to toe out of the binding. It happens all the time, and isn't the least bit unusual or unexpected. 


but, but, but........don't you realize it was "death-defying"..............:devil:

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