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Leaning-correction-help ? - Page 3

post #61 of 74
Just thought I'd toss in some casual banking from a chunk of years ago... It all ended well. Nothing chronic, and the outcome was desirable. smile.gif

post #62 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post


.


Man, when you pull back your inside foot, you go whole hog.
post #63 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by razie View Post


it is a dynamic sport!

So saying that I don't need to angulate is like saying that I don't need to stay in balance!

Dynamic yes, so you don't "need" to stay in balance, only dynamic balance, i.e. not fall.

You don't "need" to angulate either, it is enough to have more weight on the inside.

If you want outside ski bias, then yes you need to angulate a bit.

post #64 of 74

You don't need to angulate; you can make the same turn with less angulation and it might be easier to do.  Your body figured that out all on it's lonesome.  I do recall some mentioning on one of these threads a while ago about watching his grandmother bringing in loads of firewood with long sweeping non-angulated (IIRC) turns - it was easier that way.

 

However, making a turn with more angulation is usually safer in that it gives you more options should things go awry.  Being more flexible is a benefit in that it makes more angulation easier than not being flexible.

post #65 of 74
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamt View Post
 

Dynamic yes, so you don't "need" to stay in balance, only dynamic balance, i.e. not fall.

You don't "need" to angulate either, it is enough to have more weight on the inside.

If you want outside ski bias, then yes you need to angulate a bit.

 

Epic is pretty cool, not only do I get contributions from Sweden but good clear and simple ones, thankyou.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
 

You don't need to angulate; you can make the same turn with less angulation and it might be easier to do.  Your body figured that out all on it's lonesome.  I do recall some mentioning on one of these threads a while ago about watching his grandmother bringing in loads of firewood with long sweeping non-angulated (IIRC) turns - it was easier that way.

 

However, making a turn with more angulation is usually safer in that it gives you more options should things go awry.  Being more flexible is a benefit in that it makes more angulation easier than not being flexible.

 

Thanks Ghost.

 

Thankyou everyone.  I didn't think I would actually think and analyze my leaning as much as this thread has presented.   Once again Epic rules and even still surprises me sometimes.  I now understand leaning better and why and how I do this when it is not probably necessary or desired.  The differences between powder and packed and even racing clarifies the variables of leaning. If it ever cools off here I will go out and ski with a new awareness.   Thankyou All.

post #66 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamt View Post
 

Dynamic yes, so you don't "need" to stay in balance, only dynamic balance, i.e. not fall.

You don't "need" to angulate either, it is enough to have more weight on the inside.

If you want outside ski bias, then yes you need to angulate a bit.


true - but why would you ever want to use both feet for skiing? :eek oh, you mean on powder when your skis are not quite cofee-table size?

 

:beercheer: 

post #67 of 74
Thread Starter 

heli 009.JPGJust a little personal fun, here's me favoring the left leg just a little.  British Columbia last year.

 

 

 

 

 

par.JPGMe at Big Sky ESA clinic with Bears.  I just don't have a lot of pic's of me skiing, too busy having fun.

 

Technique is not always spot on but I have a lot of fun.

post #68 of 74

Slider, I love your question! I am not sure I am interpreting your question in the same way you intended, but I know I am in balance if I am not falling and my movements throughout the turn and from one turn to another are as efficient and smooth as possible.

 

My turn shape is round, my feet and legs (including the joints of ankle, knee and hip) are controlling (twisting and tipping) my skis in a progressive/ continuous manner rather than gross movements coming from my upper body, my body is stacked in a way that allows my center of mass to be stacked directly over where my leg meets my foot (near the back of the arch), and I move efficiently from turn to turn. If I am quickly fatiguing as I ski, it is difficult to accurately and precisely control my skis, or I am not "ready" to make any movement at any time I desire on skis, then I have a great indicator that I am not in balance.

 

How do I sense if I am in balance? I use my senses, especially touch or proprioception, but also the sounds my skis make, observing where my body is in space, etc. By using my senses I can make corrections or move proactively to allow myself to remain/ be in balance.

 

Unless we are stationary on our skis, we are constantly needing to make adjustments. Whether we are changing direction or speed, the forces acting on our Center of Mass in relation to our base of support are changing. The faster we go, the easier it is to compensate for imbalance. A true test of whether you are skiing in balance is to slow everything in your skiing down, and to see how this effects your balance (like trying to bike really slowly- an exercise I used to do when training for mountain biking).

 

Slider, I hope this answers your question.

post #69 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamt View Post
 

 

You don't "need" to angulate either, it is enough to have more weight on the inside.

If you want outside ski bias, then yes you need to angulate a bit.

 

Jamt, yes inclination will create edge angle, but if you want to change the edge angle you need to angulate one of your joints in order to keep the CM's relationship to the base of support the same, i.e. part of the body goes further inside turn, part of body goes further outside the turn, and the CM's relationship to BOS stays the same.

 

Just think of lazy turns where the whole body banks. You can make these turns with the inside ski lifted off the ground, while remaining centered on your ski. But if you want to change the edge angle, you must angulate the body.

post #70 of 74
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonprince View Post
 

Slider, I love your question! I am not sure I am interpreting your question in the same way you intended, but I know I am in balance if I am not falling and my movements throughout the turn and from one turn to another are as efficient and smooth as possible.

 

My turn shape is round, my feet and legs (including the joints of ankle, knee and hip) are controlling (twisting and tipping) my skis in a progressive/ continuous manner rather than gross movements coming from my upper body, my body is stacked in a way that allows my center of mass to be stacked directly over where my leg meets my foot (near the back of the arch), and I move efficiently from turn to turn. If I am quickly fatiguing as I ski, it is difficult to accurately and precisely control my skis, or I am not "ready" to make any movement at any time I desire on skis, then I have a great indicator that I am not in balance.

 

How do I sense if I am in balance? I use my senses, especially touch or proprioception, but also the sounds my skis make, observing where my body is in space, etc. By using my senses I can make corrections or move proactively to allow myself to remain/ be in balance.

 

Unless we are stationary on our skis, we are constantly needing to make adjustments. Whether we are changing direction or speed, the forces acting on our Center of Mass in relation to our base of support are changing. The faster we go, the easier it is to compensate for imbalance. A true test of whether you are skiing in balance is to slow everything in your skiing down, and to see how this effects your balance (like trying to bike really slowly- an exercise I used to do when training for mountain biking).

 

Slider, I hope this answers your question.

 

 

WOW, do you really do/think all this when you ski.  Sounds way to cerebral to me I just ski, enjoy the exhilaration, speed, smell, feel and fabulous view.  On a clear day in 8 inches of fluff I even stop now an then, look North into the Cabinet Mts. and breath in the fresh mountain air.

post #71 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete No. Idaho View Post
 

 

 

WOW, do you really do/think all this when you ski.  Sounds way to cerebral to me I just ski, enjoy the exhilaration, speed, smell, feel and fabulous view.  On a clear day in 8 inches of fluff I even stop now an then, look North into the Cabinet Mts. and breath in the fresh mountain air.

Depends on whether I am trying to refine my skiing or not! And even when I am trying to refine my skiing, I am only doing/ thinking about one or two of those things. The rest of the time, I am just loving the feeling of skiing from the forces I create in collaboration with the mountain, the wind blowing against me, views from the mountain, the good looking skiers around, etc. 

 

And yes, tech talk has a tendency to be cerebral, but it forces us to think and question why which gives us the understanding needed to be simple, when we are the hill! I am always working on being clearer and simpler while at the same time giving enough specificity to address what is at hand.

 

Thanks Pete!

post #72 of 74

I'm late to the game on this thread, but just want to throw out a few comments about Ligety's spectacular turn that has been discussed a bit.  I do not know whether he gained or lost time on that turn, but man it sure looked fun!  But here are two frame grabs, one is from just before it changed camera angles from behind, and the second one is less then a second later.  I see angulation in both of them.  Anyone implying that he was not angulating is simply wrong.  Camara angles can play funny tricks and I think when he was still facing away at an angle from the camera, it can hide some of the angulation, but when you see him facing the camera, there it is.

 

 

 

To the OP, With rocker skis and powder snow I think it doesn't really matter that much. Play around and have fun.  Sometimes its even easier to bank a bit in powder and can be fun.  If you want to carve your skis on hardpack, then don't do it. 

post #73 of 74
Thread Starter 

well obviously late now but we finally are getting a little snow.  Went to Lookout yesterday and did the pole drill and the lean out drill and worked very well for me.  the lean out worked the best I think and really cut down on my leaning.   Thanks everyone.

post #74 of 74
Thread Starter 

Just to report some results.  Have done most of what was recommended here and the one that works for me is the lean OUT, although everything worked to some extent this seemed to work best for me.  By leaning out (instead of into the hill) I accomplish better pole plant, earlier more fluid pole movement, staying over my skis, centered etc. worked for me.  I would imagine that different things work for different people and this is what worked the best.  I really can tell the difference expecially on being centered and am getting better edge angle and a much more precise and carved turns out of my ski's.  All this done on groomers because off piste is still really bad up here.   Anyway thanks everyone-it worked.

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