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Which GS Ski? - Page 2

post #31 of 49
A very very sharp and polished 1/3.
post #32 of 49
Quick question what is 1/3 is that a 87 bevel or something with the base
post #33 of 49

1 degree base side and 3 degrees on the side

post #34 of 49
Is that slow flat then? Is that why you run on edge always. Do you tune then or have to have a shop do that? Edges are easy with tools just never saw a way to tune a base that way.
post #35 of 49
No... the bases are dead flat. When the ski is flat, the edges are not engaged. The edge is 1 degree from parallel to the base toward the top sheet of the ski. The side bevel is 3 degrees, so the edge angle is acute rather than perpendicular. There are catalogues and shops full of tools to buy to do a nice 1/3 in the comfort of your own home.
post #36 of 49

Uh, not to rain on this particular parade, but racing skis - if they're going to be used to race on, even NASTAR - are almost never set to 1/3. More typically, .7/3 or .5/3. Once in a while, .5/4. All of the rest is valid, but I bring this up because once you've gone to 1 degree, you'll have to remove some base to allow the angle back to .7 or so. That's wasteful. 

 

And in all honesty, doing this at home yourself, if you've never done it before, is a guaranteed trip to a slopeside shop for resetting your edges back to somewhere near what they should be, sans some metal, so add that $50-$70 to the cost of the tuning equipment and subtract a few months off the life of the skis.

 

Incidentally, in most states, this is grounds for arrest for felonious assault and battery on defenseless skis. The shop tech will bust you. You'll get the blue flashing lights and cuffs while you just stand there, bits of damaged metal edge under your nails as evidence. Maybe a quick taser in the ribs if one of the cops is a skier.

 

Might I suggest practicing on some really beat 1997 beginners K2's, perhaps with a friend who's done it before, and move from simple sharpening to resetting angles to polishing off burrs, then try them out on the slopes for a few times before turning your attention to new skis? 

post #37 of 49
1/3 is fairly normal for GS skis out here. Sometimes .75/3. East coast or full on racing, sure. Never have heard of a .5 on a GS ski out this way, and should have clarified that I don't think its a particularly wise idea to learn how to tune on their new race skis. smile.gif
Edited by markojp - 3/31/15 at 2:55am
post #38 of 49

0.5 to 0.75 base angle is pretty much normal for GS racing on higher level (EC/WC). 1degree and above is in racing reserved pretty much for SG and DH.

post #39 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by primoz View Post

0.5 to 0.75 base angle is pretty much normal for GS racing on higher level (EC/WC). 1degree and above is in racing reserved pretty much for SG and DH.

No doubt. Injected snow and serious skill sets would change the equation. smile.gif

Let me qualify... I'm an ex-racer who has no plans to do anything other than maybe, just maybe get talked into beer league at some point. A 1/3 is fine for a hacker like me in the PNW (softer snow in general, but not always) as I free ski on them, and as I said .75/3 is not uncommon around here. I'm not recommending 1/3 to anyone, just was passing along what a particular pair of skis is tuned to for reference and apologize for any confusion. And the word 'angry'... just means very sharp and polished.

At any rate, the WRC's have excellent edge grip, it's just not as longitudinally stiff as my 27m skis, and probably not as torsionally stiff either. The first day I skied them, 'blazing elk', a steep groomed pitch was 'slide for life to the bottom' hard. I hadn't realized how hard the snow was until taking a run with and watching a clinicing group of good skiers on normal all mountain skis having interesting times.

No umbrella necessary as there's no parade.... and everyone knows no one carries an umbrella in Seattle unless they're from out of town. Why solve an ingress problem for $10 when a perfectly fine $400 tech shell will do? Carry on. smile.gif
Edited by markojp - 3/31/15 at 2:58am
post #40 of 49

Still confused.  Does this mean the edge slopes up from the base?  Seems like grounds to catch an edge all the time if that was the case.  Would also explain why you cannot lay a slalom ski flat.

post #41 of 49

@utahsaint,

1/3 is red angle 1 degree as shown below, blue angle 3 degrees instead of the 2 degrees shown below.

Having base angle makes the skis run a little faster when flat to the snow and makes it a little less likely to catch an edge, but introduces a slight delay before engagement.

The higher the side bevel and the lower the base bevel, the more acute the angle and the more it digs in.

 

I like a 0.5 base bevel, and have ever since I tried my then new, now antique, SG skis which came with a new-fangled base bevel, purported to make the skis run faster.  I prefer a 0.5/3 on most skis, but I run a 1/2 on skis I use for moguls. 

 

http://www.mudbugco.com/tuningpages/tuningbasics.html

BevelAngles.gif 


Edited by Ghost - 3/31/15 at 11:02am
post #42 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by utahsaint View Post
 

Still confused.  Does this mean the edge slopes up from the base?  Seems like grounds to catch an edge all the time if that was the case.  Would also explain why you cannot lay a slalom ski flat.


I think your asking how the base bevel is measured ?

 

Lay the ski base up, the metal edge will till down toward the outer edge .5, .7 or 1 degree. I have been on 1/3 for years now. My GF who's only been skiing for 4 years has always been on 1/3.

post #43 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
 

@utahsaint,

1/3 is red angle 1 degree as shown below, blue angle 3 degrees instead of the 2 degrees shown below.

Having base angle makes the skis run a little faster when flat to the snow and makes it a little less likely to catch an edge, but introduces a slight delay before engagement.

The higher the side bevel and the lower the base bevel, the more acute the angle and the more it digs in.

 

I like a 0.5 base evel, and have ever since I tried my then new, now antique, SG skis which came with a new-fangled base bevel, purported to make the skis run faster.  I prefer a 0.5/3 on most skis, but I run a 1/2 on skis I use for moguls. 

 

http://www.mudbugco.com/tuningpages/tuningbasics.html

BevelAngles.gif

 

Very interesting.  It has all changed so much from the old back file days.  I might have to setup some skis like this around .5 makes sense.  I have my sides at 3 degrees now but have no idea what the factory sets them to.

post #44 of 49
Typically anywhere from .5 to 1base, and 1 to 2 edge. Some race skis ship 0/0.
post #45 of 49
So which gs ski would be best just for free skiing mellow fast arcs? Ie, not racing usually. Assume weight in the 175-205lb range. Basically a softer flexing gs ski I would think?

Blizzard had this one. 184cm/ 25-26m radius
http://www.blizzard-ski.com/products/gs-racing-flat-with-plate-2/
Is that the WRC? Would be nice if Blizzard actially put the name on it.

Atomic has the 183cm/23m radius masters ski.
Atomic Redster FIS GS Doubledeck 3.0 Masters Race Skis 2015.

Then there's the Rossi Hero and Hero Masters skis. Masters has some tip rocker?

Btw. When we were skiing Mad River at the end of the day for the gathering there was a guy at the top with the black and white Rossi Masters ski. I started down the middle of the mogul field, he's off to the right. A couple bumps in he launches then on landing the air proceeds to ski diagonally to left side. I then attempted to follow his line in the bumps which was pretty damn straight. The guy was good.
Turned out it was Terry Barbour dir of Mrg ski school and former demo member. I will say that Mad River has very few spots to open up a gs ski and nothing with any width. You are going to have to turn often or hit a tree.
post #46 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post

So which gs ski would be best just for free skiing mellow fast arcs? Ie, not racing usually. Assume weight in the 175-205lb range. Basically a softer flexing gs ski I would think?

Blizzard had this one. 184cm/ 25-26m radius
http://www.blizzard-ski.com/products/gs-racing-flat-with-plate-2/
Is that the WRC? Would be nice if Blizzard actially put the name on it.
 

 

The description of your ski, Tog:  "With a 26m radius, the harder charging U16's now have the ultimate weapon of choice."

 

The WRC says 'WRC' on the top sheet:

 

http://www.blizzard-ski.com/products/wrc-racing-wc-piston/

 

"The ultimate beer league race ski, this ski will allow you to crush your closest rival every Wednesday night. World Cup performance with beer league ease. A tighter turning radius and a wider footprint make these skis ideal for weekend carving and night racing."  I think it's like a 22m in the 186, 71mm underfoot. 


Edited by markojp - 3/31/15 at 3:48pm
post #47 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post


Btw. When we were skiing Mad River at the end of the day for the gathering there was a guy at the top with the black and white Rossi Masters ski. I started down the middle of the mogul field, he's off to the right. A couple bumps in he launches then on landing the air proceeds to ski diagonally to left side. I then attempted to follow his line in the bumps which was pretty damn straight. The guy was good.
Turned out it was Terry Barbour dir of Mrg ski school and former demo member. I will say that Mad River has very few spots to open up a gs ski and nothing with any width. You are going to have to turn often or hit a tree.

 

 

You'd be surprised how versatile a cheater is sized down one from what you might think was just right for racing. 

post #48 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post

Btw. When we were skiing Mad River at the end of the day for the gathering there was a guy at the top with the black and white Rossi Masters ski. I started down the middle of the mogul field, he's off to the right. A couple bumps in he launches then on landing the air proceeds to ski diagonally to left side. I then attempted to follow his line in the bumps which was pretty damn straight. The guy was good.

Turned out it was Terry Barbour dir of Mrg ski school and former demo member. I will say that Mad River has very few spots to open up a gs ski and nothing with any width. You are going to have to turn often or hit a tree.


You'd be surprised how versatile a cheater is sized down one from what you might think was just right for racing. 

Hmmmm. You might have liked it, Marko. I was there and I'm pretty certain I would not have wanted to ski that run on that day on that ski. Yikes.
post #49 of 49
Yes, I remember asking him about the skis when he was talking to Bob. He said something like " not the best skis here, too stiff"
And I said, "Well at least they're skinny." lol. I didn't know who it was.
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