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EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › Anybody skied these skis: Q98, Sin 7, Auto 102, Cham 97?
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Anybody skied these skis: Q98, Sin 7, Auto 102, Cham 97?

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 

I am looking for a comparison of these skis, and maybe a bit of a suggestion as to which one would work well for me. Unfortunately I won't be able to demo these before I need to buy so it will need to be an educated guess. There is also a cost/availability issue at play which is why I selected what I did, other than the Auto 102.

 

I am 6'2", 170 to 180 lbs through out the season, advanced skier (7 or 8 normally, if everything clicks I can ski like a 9). 20 to 25 days per year, mostly in Fernie (lots of snow but can be warm with freeze thaw cycles, rain, sun affect) but also ski Banff resorts a few times a year as well (mixed bag but colder, drier and bonier than Fernie). Dalbello Scorpion SR110, could use new liners.

 

I ski mostly off-piste, whatever happens to be the conditions although I stay on the groomers when there has been a bad refreeze or rain crust. I ski a lot of tight trees and long bump runs as well as more open trees and bowls when the snow is good. I do like skiing chutes and steeper stuff but I don't do it on low snow days very often anymore.

 

Skis I have skied:

 

Movement Goliath Sluff 184: about perfect other than it was mounted too far back due to hole conflicts. Sold, if it had room for an alpine mount I would have probably kept it and moved it to daily driver duty.

 

K2 Seth Vicious 179 (1st year with rocker): very fun in most conditions. Couldn't carve well, not enough edge length (or left...they were pretty beat when I got them). Skied very short in 2D snow, would have liked a bit more length. Tip was a bit hooky in refrozen crap. Loved the feel of the flex. Sold.

 

Salomon Shogun 182: really liked this ski for about two years. The last two years it has felt dead and hard to release the tails. Could be a bad tune, and the slight twisting of the tails. Could be I have transitioned to more finesse than power as when I really push them they feel good again. I still regularly open it up on groomers though. Has always felt too far forward of a mount. Daily Driver.

 

Rossi Avenger 82 carbon 177: I use these early season when only groomers are available and when I go to Nakiska. I like these in very few off-piste conditions.

 

Praxis GPO 187: (medium+ stiffness). Deep snow only.

 

I am looking for a ski to replace the Shogun and address what I don't like about it: tip feels short, tail is a bit too long and hard to release in lots of conditions making it a bit sluggish in tight trees with the trade off that it is pretty good in open areas. I think I would benefit from something a bit softer for skiing tight trees and bumps.

 

Can anybody give me comparisons to what I have skied, or between themselves?

 

Here are my concerns from what I have read (caveat - I have not demo'd any of these skis and have only fondled the Q98 and Sin 7)

 

Q98: not great edge hold. Maybe they are not top of the class but maybe they are better than what I have been skiing??? Maybe this is like an updated Shogun?

 

Sin 7: seem like they have a lot of rocker and very soft tip and tail. May ski like a longer Seth (rocker/camber profile is similar) so again I worry about edge hold but it seems good otherwise. Don't know about bump performance with the sidecut and wide tip and tail.

 

Auto 102: have not really read anything about this ski other than Philpug's steal and deals. My GPO is similar to the Auto 117 so I figured, why not consider a skinny version of I ski I like. No idea what the rocker/camber profile looks like or how stiff they are.

 

Cham 97: concerned with no twin or even small tail rocker as I do a fair amount of backwards sliding (not really switch skiing) in really tight trees. Worried about them maybe being too stiff. Tip seems really similar to the GPO.

 

Here is what I think would be a great shape:

 

130-100-120, 22-m radius, 300-mm tip rocker, 100-mm tail rocker with a half twin (like 4-cm total rise), 185-cm straight pull. Pretty much a Shogun with a bit of tip and tail taper that would necessarily shorten the sidecut section and drop the radius slightly, a longer total length and some small rocker in the tail.

 

Any thoughts (other than "You have gone off the deep end on this one")? 

post #2 of 13

Praxis 9D8 ??

post #3 of 13
185 Nordica Soul Rider. If wider required, Blizzard Peacemaker.
post #4 of 13

I've been on the Sin7 and Cham 97.

 

The Cham is likely too stiff for your stated purpose.  They're a great crud buster - the best afternoon crud ski I've yet tried - but from about the front contact point back they're a very solid ski with a lot of shape, and with a lot of support from the tail.  The tail is dead flat, albeit with that obvious taper.

 

The Sin7 is a bit beefier than the old Rossi S3, with a noticeably different shape and more support from the tail.  It's worthy of consideration, and worth putting on your list of skis to demo.

 

In that same space the Soul Rider would rise to the top of my list.

post #5 of 13

I demo'd the Auto 102.  Good quickness, but got bounced around a bit when trying a "charge the crud" run.  But maybe it was a bit short.  I liked the 109 a lot more.  I reviewed it in the Gathering's demo day reactions thread, and recently linked to that thread for someone else asking about the Automatic lineup.  You should be able to find it pretty easily.

 

I don't have any overlap for comparison to your skis or your other candidates, unfortunately.

post #6 of 13


I believe the Automatic 102 is the rebranded Ritual, which has been around for a couple years and redesigned last season.  If I am correct, the Auto 102 is basically the same as last year's Ritual, and there is a lot of info around on them.  They original Auto 117 was so popular that Atomic renamed a substantial part of their line after it.

post #7 of 13
The Ritual is still the Ritual, but know as the 'vantage series Ritual'

http://www.onthesnow.com/gear/a/2202/2015-men-s-all-mountain-back-ski-buyers--guide-/atomic/ritual
post #8 of 13

I have skied all 4 of them. 

 

Salomon Q98: Last years Steals & Deals winner and a great balance of playfulness and hard snow performance. Salomon's Quest series aren't the strongest skis but they are a great value and you aren't that heavy of a guy so I think you will enjoy these. 

 

Rossi Sin7: My least favorite of the 4 skis, the air tip just makes this ski too light at the extremities and IMHO it wasn't needed. 

 

Atomic Automatic 102: Yes this years Steals & Deals winner and a fun playful ski. Atomic's Automatic shape is great and I think this could be a great option for what you are looking for.

 

Dynastar Cham 97: Yes, the stiffest and has a TR on the shorter side, of the 4, it will be best on the firm snow but the worst in the bumps.

 

My choice of these 4 for what you are looking for, your size and ability and along with where you ski, would be the Quest 98. It will do a lot of things very well for a great price. 

post #9 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by mudfoot View Post
 


I believe the Automatic 102 is the rebranded Ritual, which has been around for a couple years and redesigned last season.  If I am correct, the Auto 102 is basically the same as last year's Ritual, and there is a lot of info around on them.  They original Auto 117 was so popular that Atomic renamed a substantial part of their line after it.


No.  Not the same ski.  The Ritual has a metal inlaid spine.  Different shape.  Different waist width (103).  Different purpose (all mountain charger).  Still in the line for 14/15.  http://www.evo.com/skis/atomic-ritual.aspx#image=79149/376303/atomic-ritual-skis-2015-174.jpg

 

The Auto 102 is net/new for 14/15.  No metal.  Looser feel by design.  It is more of a Shreditor 102 competitor.

post #10 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
 

I have skied all 4 of them. 

 

Salomon Q98: Last years Steals & Deals winner and a great balance of playfulness and hard snow performance. Salomon's Quest series aren't the strongest skis but they are a great value and you aren't that heavy of a guy so I think you will enjoy these. 

 

Rossi Sin7: My least favorite of the 4 skis, the air tip just makes this ski too light at the extremities and IMHO it wasn't needed. 

 

Atomic Automatic 102: Yes this years Steals & Deals winner and a fun playful ski. Atomic's Automatic shape is great and I think this could be a great option for what you are looking for.

 

Dynastar Cham 97: Yes, the stiffest and has a TR on the shorter side, of the 4, it will be best on the firm snow but the worst in the bumps.

 

My choice of these 4 for what you are looking for, your size and ability and along with where you ski, would be the Quest 98. It will do a lot of things very well for a great price. 


The Q98 is what I was leaning toward. It hand flexes pretty stiff (to me at least, considering it is not a groomer ski), probably similar to the Shogun, which I have never felt was folding up under me but has felt to lack stability at high speeds. I think the reduced rocker in the Q98 as well as the longer length (188 vs 182 [that measures 177/178]) should be a good fit.

 

What do you think of stability at speed of the two sizes (188/180) compared to the Shogun? I measure the Shogun as having 126-cm camber contact length which I think is a prime reason for the instability, even though the rocker is low, it is very long for that length ski with its intended purpose. What are the contact lengths of the Q?

post #11 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VladSki View Post
 

Praxis 9D8 ??


The exchange rate and shipping is killing this option right now, even with the holiday sale and customer credits.

post #12 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by 98brg2d View Post
 


The Q98 is what I was leaning toward. It hand flexes pretty stiff (to me at least, considering it is not a groomer ski), probably similar to the Shogun, which I have never felt was folding up under me but has felt to lack stability at high speeds. I think the reduced rocker in the Q98 as well as the longer length (188 vs 182 [that measures 177/178]) should be a good fit.

 

What do you think of stability at speed of the two sizes (188/180) compared to the Shogun? I measure the Shogun as having 126-cm camber contact length which I think is a prime reason for the instability, even though the rocker is low, it is very long for that length ski with its intended purpose. What are the contact lengths of the Q?

I bought the Q98 in 177  last season with the intent of using it in soft snow conditions. I chose the shorter length, and, I am heavier than you, because I wanted to turn easier in bumps. As Philpug states above, it is a light, playful ski that I enjoy skiing. Used them for 10 days in Utah last season and smiled a lot in powder, bumps, crud and groomers. I spent a day demoing the Shogun several years ago on a new snow day in Jackson Hole. Memories are foggy, but, found it to be heavy and not responsive once leaving powder...did not like the ski at all. That was one day on a wide ski where I did not have much experience, so, your experiences rule. We often talk of skis as biased to either hard snow  or soft snow. For use in harder snow conditions, some may find the Q98 better than others you mentioned, but, for this eastern skier the Q08 does not begin to compare to narrower carving skis on hard condtions. I would need a second ski for firm days. If I skied a big mountain on a regular basis, I'd recommend the longer version if speed is important to you, it's not for me.

 

BTW, I purchased the Q98's from @Philpug via the shop he works in at Starthaus in Tahoe. Get Solly bindings and double the warranty. Phil has great feel for ski performance, but, he can put skis on much higher angles than me, so, he can get better hard snow angles.

post #13 of 13
Thread Starter 
I checked out both sizes in store again and decided to go with the 180 as well. Interestingly, Salomon appears to have changed their measuring system and the 180 measures 179 ish and the 188 measures 187 ish...the Shoguns measure 4 or 5 cm shorter than the advertised length so the q98 180 is actually longer than a 182 shogun and also has about 10cm longer camber contact.
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