or Connect
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Diamond versus ceramic stone?

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
I've been getting some conflicting results when it comes to polishing edges. Some say to use a ceramic stone to soften up hardened edges from rock hits or factory tuning where ceramic stone starts and stops at the tip and tail. Then polish with a set of diamond stones. Other people say to use the diamond stones 1st. Then polish final polish with a ceramic stone. I thought that a fine diamond polish the surface finer than a ceramic.
post #2 of 25
What type (brand,model) ceramic stones are you using? There's two types - cutting, and polishing. Cutting stones are great for damaged areas/case hardening, but not final polish.
post #3 of 25
Thread Starter 
I was using DMT diamond stones for polishing. So would just using coarser to finer gummie stones be considered a ceramic polishing stone?
post #4 of 25

Gummis are not for polishing or cutting. just for removing final burr wIth NO PRESSURE. 

 

I use a hard blue as my final step in tuning at a 45 degree angle to the edge point as lightly as possible, and I mean lightly. 

 

You can also use a gummi to remove rust before you begin tuning. 

 

But the problem with a gummi is it will actually dull your edge since even the hard gummis are soft and extend over the edge point when pressure is applied. 

 

I use diamonds and then use a true hard stone like a surgical stone to highly polish the side edge. 

 

Understand that none of what I have writtern here applies to base edges.

post #5 of 25
Thread Starter 
So a 800 or 1200 diamond stone would not polish the side edge enough for the final pass? And you say that it doesn't pertain to the base edge. How would you polish a base edge then. I've been using my base bevel guide with a 100 cm diamond to Polish it. It leaves a smooth shiny surface with no striations
post #6 of 25
Thread Starter 
The 100cm diamond is an 8oo grit
post #7 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowdoo72 View Post

So a 800 or 1200 diamond stone would not polish the side edge enough for the final pass? And you say that it doesn't pertain to the base edge. How would you polish a base edge then. I've been using my base bevel guide with a 100 cm diamond to Polish it. It leaves a smooth shiny surface with no striations
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowdoo72 View Post

The 100cm diamond is an 8oo grit

I suspect the diamond vs. ceramic disagreement is more a matter of personal preference than anything, because as far as I know, either one will work. If I use a diamond stone for a work-hardened edge I'm more likely to use a 400 grit than a super-fine stone. But I'm more likely to use my hard Arkansas (natural) stone for work-hardened steel because it hardly removes any metal at all. I'm pretty liberal with smoothing dings and scratches I can feel with my fingers on my side edges, but I won't even touch my base edge unless there's significant damage, and even then I work lightly and carefully using the Arkansas stone in my base bevel guide.

As for finishing your tune, polishing is really a race tune thing, and isn't necessary to get a good recreational tune. In fact, I think most here don't go any finer than a 400 or 600 grit diamond stone. It's only racers and us OCD types who get into making our edges all pretty and super-shiny. rolleyes.gif Anyhoo, an 800 grit diamond stone would certainly smooth the surface nicely, and someday you should try a Diaface Moonflex diamond stone, which leaves very few striations in the edge. I've developed a habit, which may or may not be advisable, of finishing by sort of burnishing the steel (someone correct me if I'm that's the wrong term) with the Arkansas stone (a natural stone) on my file guide to give it a different sort of sheen (Atomicman's surgical stone is probably the finer 'soft' Arkansas stone) than the diamond stone. However, based on some enlarged pictures comparing steel sharpened with an Arkansas stone and a fine ceramic polishing stone, I'm thinking of picking up a ceramic stone to play with. Again, that's pretty OCD, but what the hell. tongue.gif

HTH
post #8 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowdoo72 View Post

I've been getting some conflicting results when it comes to polishing edges. Some say to use a ceramic stone to soften up hardened edges from rock hits or factory tuning where ceramic stone starts and stops at the tip and tail. Then polish with a set of diamond stones. Other people say to use the diamond stones 1st. Then polish final polish with a ceramic stone. I thought that a fine diamond polish the surface finer than a ceramic.


Use a coarse diamond stone to "soften" the hardened edge.  After you tune and progress to your 800, then finish the polishing with the ceramics.

post #9 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowdoo72 View Post

I've been getting some conflicting results when it comes to polishing edges. Some say to use a ceramic stone to soften up hardened edges from rock hits or factory tuning where ceramic stone starts and stops at the tip and tail. Then polish with a set of diamond stones. Other people say to use the diamond stones 1st. Then polish final polish with a ceramic stone. I thought that a fine diamond polish the surface finer than a ceramic.

Choosing Diamond Stones or Aluminum Oxide (Ceramic) Stones

Visualize the surface of a diamond stone as a flat plain studded with sharp rocky spires. Conversely an aluminum oxide stone is a flat surface erratically scored by canyons. The protrusive diamonds cut more aggressively than the flatter aluminum oxide stones, even if the stones have a similar grit rating. The result is that aluminum oxide stones don't cut base edges as quickly, thereby reducing the chance of over-beveling them. If you are using diamond stones, use a light touch to avoid over beveling. This is a significant consideration for base beveling.

Arkansas stones are natural stones of various hardness and surface quality. These stones will hone your edge without "sanding" it as with a diamond stone.

 

From: http://racewax.com/t-diamond-stone-care-and-use.aspx

 

Hope this helps,

Marc

post #10 of 25
WHy a re n't we supposed to touch the base edges often?
post #11 of 25

You want to keep your base bevel small, 1 degree maximum.  Every time you run anything over it (file, diamond, stone) you increase the base bevel.  It is common practice to not even touch the base edge to avoid this.  The side edge can be filed over and over, only limited by the amount of metal there.

 

Hard to describe, but I'm sure someone has a nice graphic to show this.

 

The only way to reduce base bevel, once it's too  big, is to stone grind the skis.

post #12 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by rod9301 View Post

WHy a re n't we supposed to touch the base edges often?


You can deburr you base edges anytime they need it from rock hits etc..  When you do that, go easy and just with stones, no files.  If too much work is done there you get a bit base high.  If that happens, and it's a problem for you in the way the ski handles then you can scrape the ski flat with sharp steel, or go get the ski stone ground to remove some base.

 

All resharpening is done from the side edges.

post #13 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by rod9301 View Post

WHy a re n't we supposed to touch the base edges often?

There's nothing wrong with maintaining your base edge regularly, just not/never with a file after your b/e angle is set.  I prefer to use the finer grits (400 and finer) on b/e, and stay away from 100's or 200's - unless you are addressing a case hardened/damaged area.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques View Post
 


 go get the ski stone ground to remove some base.

 

 

Did someone spike my beer tonight, or did Jacques just endorse machine ski tuning?

post #14 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rod9301 View Post

WHy a re n't we supposed to touch the base edges often?

There's nothing wrong with maintaining your base edge regularly, just not/never with a file after your b/e angle is set.  I prefer to use the finer grits (400 and finer) on b/e, and stay away from 100's or 200's - unless you are addressing a case hardened/damaged area.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques View Post
 


 go get the ski stone ground to remove some base.

 

 

Did someone spike my beer tonight, or did Jacques just endorse machine ski tuning

I did say scrape them flatter with steel too, but that takes more practice!  Plus it can take lots of time.  I do prefer it over a grind, but for some the stone grinder with a good operator may be a better choice until they have practiced with some old skis first!   Be good up there, and drink Coors Original only!  Finest grit possible to remove base burrs.....yes, and OP don't use too much pressure over those rock hits!  You will ruin your stone prematurely!    This is Coors Original Chenzo!  :beercheer:

post #15 of 25

hahaha  its all good

 

:beercheer:

post #16 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
 

hahaha  its all good

 

:beercheer:


And with some Hot Boxing even better!

post #17 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques View Post
 
 


And with some Hot Boxing even better!

 

Is that when you have two good looking women in the ring together? ;)

post #18 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques View Post
 
 


And with some Hot Boxing even better!

 

Is that when you have two good looking women in the ring together? ;)


Easy on the women now!  ;)

post #19 of 25

I've heard of Hot Yoga, but never Hot Boxing. :D

post #20 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz View Post
 

I've heard of Hot Yoga, but never Hot Boxing. :D


You funny!  It's like Hot Yoga for your skis!  The skis feel better and no pain.

post #21 of 25

no, no - I know what hot boxing is, read lots about it.  Just making a pun on "boxing" that's all.

post #22 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz View Post
 

no, no - I know what hot boxing is, read lots about it.  Just making a pun on "boxing" that's all.


You funny Jazz!  I know you know and you make me laugh!  Thanks!

post #23 of 25

I was given a set of Arkansas stones used for sharpening knives.  They consist of a Washita Stone, Soft Arkansas, and Hard Arkansas.  They are small enough to fit into my file guide. 

 

After following a progression of diamond stones, 200, 400, and 600,  I have been using the Hard Arkansas to hone the edge. 

 

My question is would it be better to use a progression of the 3 stones?  If so, I assume you would use the Washita and work to the hardest stone? 

 

Also, I have been using the Hard Arkansas to remove the hanging burr.  Is this the best stone of the 3 for that use? 

post #24 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by ONedge View Post
 

I was given a set of Arkansas stones used for sharpening knives.  They consist of a Washita Stone, Soft Arkansas, and Hard Arkansas.  They are small enough to fit into my file guide. 

 

After following a progression of diamond stones, 200, 400, and 600,  I have been using the Hard Arkansas to hone the edge. Thumbs UpThumbs Up

 

My question is would it be better to use a progression of the 3 stones?  If so, I assume you would use the Washita and work to the hardest stone? Thumbs Up

 

Also, I have been using the Hard Arkansas to remove the hanging burr.  Is this the best stone of the 3 for that use?

 

Yep, you are fine either way!

 

The Hard Arkansas is perfect for removing hanging burr!  Thumbs Up 

post #25 of 25

Thanks A-man!

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Tuning, Maintenance and Repairs