or Connect
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › New Boots? [in Rochester, NY]
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

New Boots? [in Rochester, NY]

post #1 of 35
Thread Starter 

I am sure I'm going to get yelled at pretty bad for this one....but what the heck.

 

I've been skiing for 25+ years.  I am 5' 9", 170 lbs, and I ski Vokl Kendos.  I am a strong expert skier, and I ski everything....groomers, trees, bumps, and whatever powder I can get out here on the East Coast.  No park skiing really, except for playing around with my 7 year-old.

 

I've always just sort of purchased what was on sale, and made it work.

 

Then last year I purchased the Kendos and man, what a difference from the 8 ft tiger sharks that I was skiing.  Love the Kendos.

 

Now...my boots. they are like 10 years old, maybe.  Head Edge 7.0.  They hurt, my fleet slop around in them, etc.  I've always just sort of overcame it.

 

Would a new boot make things THAT much better? 

post #2 of 35

Only if you want to ski well and without pain.  :rolleyes

 

I'm a 30-year recreational skier.  The money and time I spent on my first "real" pair of boots (that is, carefully chosen, fitted, and modified) has remained the single most important thing I've ever done for my skiing.

post #3 of 35

^^^^

Yep.

Boot's are the only skiing equipment,  that I'm willing to pay full price.

post #4 of 35
Thread Starter 

They aren't THAT painful...I guess I've never experienced skiing in boots that weren't at least a little too tight....do they make such things, now?

 

I can usually get them tight enough throughout the day so that I don't notice them performance-wise, but maybe that's just because I'm used to them.

 

Maybe they aren't performing that well, and I just don't realize it.

post #5 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by fedad View Post
 

They aren't THAT painful...I guess I've never experienced skiing in boots that weren't at least a little too tight....do they make such things, now?

 

I can usually get them tight enough throughout the day so that I don't notice them performance-wise, but maybe that's just because I'm used to them.

 

Maybe they aren't performing that well, and I just don't realize it.


You said the boots are 10 years old.  Have you heard of the idea that liners "pack out" after a certain amount of time?

 

How did you buy the boots?  On sale from a boot fitter?  or online?  or ?

post #6 of 35
Thread Starter 

I bought them from a ski store 10 years ago.

 

Now there are like 1,000 boots for me to look at.  I don't even know where to begin.

post #7 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by fedad View Post
 

I bought them from a ski store 10 years ago.

 

Now there are like 1,000 boots for me to look at.  I don't even know where to begin.


The point of working with a boot fitter is that you don't have to think about brands or sizes or matching the shape or your foot to the shape of the inside of a ski boot.  Not every "ski store" has an experienced boot fitter.  A good boot fitter will take your budget and type of skiing into account.  You should be buying a new boot but it doesn't have to be from the current model year.  Buying boots is nothing like buying skis.  The saying goes something like you "marry boots but only date skis."

 

I had old . . . really old . . . rear-entry boots when I started skiing again around 2004.  They were comfortable, but it made a huge difference when I got my first 4-buckle boots from a boot fitter in NC during pre-season sales.  That was when I was an intermediate so didn't need anything that fancy.  Cost was $300.  When I had improved and was skiing a lot more, the next pair of boots were about $400 plus I added custom footbeds for $125.  Also "new old stock."

 

If you haven't read this EpicSki Article yet, please read it now:

http://www.epicski.com/a/ski-boots-the-most-important-piece-of-gear-you-will-own

 

What state do you live in?

post #8 of 35
Thread Starter 

I live in Rochester, NY.

post #9 of 35
Thread Starter 

So what I'd like to do is get a boot fitter to tell me what brand and model to purchase, and how to adjust them to my feet.

 

I don't want some 16 year-old selling me whatever fits ok in the store.

 

I'd like this purchase to be the last peg in the package, and to last a little while.

post #10 of 35

Here's an old post from 2003 about a boot fitter in Rochester.  You could PM ​@HeluvaSkier to see if the recommendation still is valid.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeluvaSkier View Post

New York

David C. Cardillo
The Foot Performance Center
2210 Monroe Ave.
Rochester, NY 14618
(585)473-5950

Whit ??
Snow Coutry
3349 Monroe Ave.
Pittsford Plaza
Rochester, NY 14618
(585)586-6460

I worked with David on several occasions this fall. He uses a CNC method of making foot beds. He takes a digital reading of your foot, puts it on a computer and the CNC machine makes your foot bed. He is also a certified pedorthist and will make adjustments to the footbed to make your foot fit in the boot properly. An example is he raised certain parts of my footbed to keep my very wide flat feet from wanting to spred inside the boot. This store only does footbeds, so you have to have already gotten your boots elsewhere. David will do grinding work, as well as lifting and canting work to the boot soles. He is very knowledgable when it comes to different boots and knows each boots' characteristics very well. The shop that David works at on occasion and is affiliated with is Snow Country, in Pittsford. I will also leave the address for Snow Country, as they also have a bootfitter on hand named Whit (don't know his last name) who does all the in-shop fitting. Snow Country has all of the boot fitting capabilities that David has at The Foot Performance Center accept for the CNC Machine. David takes the measurements and readings in the shop with his laptop, and then makes the footbeds at his store. Whit, the in-shop bootfitter, does heat molded footbeds and various other types of footbeds. I highly recommend Snow Country for buying boots, especially if you are looking for plug race boots. They plug boots from Technica, Rossignol, Nordica, Lange, and can get Salomon's X2 if you wish to try it on. They may also have others, but those are the ones i have tried on in the shop.

Later

GREG
post #11 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by fedad View Post
 

They aren't THAT painful...I guess I've never experienced skiing in boots that weren't at least a little too tight....do they make such things, now?

 

I can usually get them tight enough throughout the day so that I don't notice them performance-wise, but maybe that's just because I'm used to them.

 

Maybe they aren't performing that well, and I just don't realize it.

Your statement above sums it up.........You can usually get them tight enough throughout the day.......  That is not a good thing.  Your boots are too big.  I promise you, your feet are not shrinking as the day goes on.  

 

With a good fitting boot the two lower buckles should only be buckled enough to keep the snow out.  You should never have to cinch them down. Cinching means bad fitting boot.  I can ski with my boots unbuckled.  Of course, I can't flex them or ski them great, but the point is that they fit that well.  I used to do the same thing as you, buy the cheapest boot possible. I bit the bullet about eight years ago and went for the best fitting boot.  I believe I dropped three full sizes.  I also learned that I need low volume boots like the Lange LV 130.  I also learned after a couple more new boots that I have a ton of flexion in my ankles, and a stiff boot is better for me, even though I am a lighter guy.  I had 110 flexes for my first well fitting boots, only to learn that I would fold them in half when skiing and hitting ruts and undulations.  I also have custom footbeds, which remove any little play that may be caused by weird feet.  All of this put together results in a boot that moves exactly with the motion of my feet and legs.  It is the difference between being able to lay the ski over on edge immediately, and not.  Give me a piece of shit ski all day long... I will ski it just fine as long as my boots fit perfectly.  Zero compromise when it comes to boots if you ski a bunch.  

post #12 of 35

Some examples of why it's better to spend time to find a good boot fitter instead of researching boots and trying to figure it out for yourself.  A good boot fitter guarantees you and your feet stay happy for a few seasons, not just when you walk out the door after the purchase.

 

http://www.epicski.com/t/130021/no-bootfitter-in-my-area

 

http://www.epicski.com/t/117135/a-good-shop-experience

post #13 of 35
Thread Starter 

Rochester has limited options.  There is basically one ski shop in town, but it has two differently named stores.  I know there are some talented folks who work in them, but they also have the teenage employees doing some work, too.

 

The Bristol guy is more for people with foot pain....which I don't really have.

 

If anyone knows of the name of the good fitters at the ski company or snow, I'd appreciate it.

post #14 of 35
Thread Starter 
I went to a place with a boot fitter. Measured my foot, instep, and calf, and got rid of some of the misconceptions I had about my foot size.

We talked about the kind of skiing that I do (everything, and aggressive...love bumps and trees, but being an East coast skier groomers are just a big part of life), and what makes me unhappy about my current oooold Head Edge 7.0s (feel loose, and in order to get them tight enough so that my feet don't slosh, I need to enter new territories of pain). I feel the sloshing worse in the trees and bumps, maybe because there is more flexing back and forth, as compared to when I'm on the groomers I can push hard enough and maintain that stance so that it feels like less of a problem.

Tried on about 7 pairs of boots. The most comfortable by far was the Atomic Hawx 80. I was fearful of the 80 flex, but was assured that it skis stiffer, and it felt as stiff as some the 90s and 100s I was trying on. Also, based on my self-described needs, I will get the comfort and flex for the bumps and trees and will actually gain stiffness and performance on the groomers. The comfort was much better than any of the stiff boots, as well, and my heel grabbed so much better in the Hawx.

So....I bought them. He also mentioned some custom boot fitting services, but that they were for people who were having foot and knee pain and were looking for an ortho solution...he said I might not be there, yet, and that a proper fitting (boot is a 25.5 compared to a 26.5 in my old boots) may take care of much of my pain, which is probably more related to blood flow than anything else.

Thanks, all, for your help. Can't wait for the snow to fall so I can try these babies out!
post #15 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by fedad View Post

He also mentioned some custom boot fitting services, but that they were for people who were having foot and knee pain and were looking for an ortho solution

 

Um . . . hm.  I'm not sure I'd trust this statement.

post #16 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by fedad View Post

I went to a place with a boot fitter. Measured my foot, instep, and calf, and got rid of some of the misconceptions I had about my foot size.

We talked about the kind of skiing that I do (everything, and aggressive...love bumps and trees, but being an East coast skier groomers are just a big part of life), and what makes me unhappy about my current oooold Head Edge 7.0s (feel loose, and in order to get them tight enough so that my feet don't slosh, I need to enter new territories of pain). I feel the sloshing worse in the trees and bumps, maybe because there is more flexing back and forth, as compared to when I'm on the groomers I can push hard enough and maintain that stance so that it feels like less of a problem.

Tried on about 7 pairs of boots. The most comfortable by far was the Atomic Hawx 80. I was fearful of the 80 flex, but was assured that it skis stiffer, and it felt as stiff as some the 90s and 100s I was trying on. Also, based on my self-described needs, I will get the comfort and flex for the bumps and trees and will actually gain stiffness and performance on the groomers. The comfort was much better than any of the stiff boots, as well, and my heel grabbed so much better in the Hawx.

So....I bought them. He also mentioned some custom boot fitting services, but that they were for people who were having foot and knee pain and were looking for an ortho solution...he said I might not be there, yet, and that a proper fitting (boot is a 25.5 compared to a 26.5 in my old boots) may take care of much of my pain, which is probably more related to blood flow than anything else.

Thanks, all, for your help. Can't wait for the snow to fall so I can try these babies out!

 

 

Little taller and about the same wt..  I'm in the camp that loves stiff boots.  My current set is likely the softest boot that I've had in a long time and that's a Lange WC 130 as I was brought up on ultra stiff boots, and ultra stiff long skis.

 

Remember any of the better high end boots can be softened by removing a screw or 2 and with a little work by a good boot guy can be softened even further.  However, it difficult to make a boot stiffer.

 

I would say the 80 is likely too soft as IMHO the 60 to 80 range is for beginners/intermediates that need some forgiveness in the boots.  Most of the time a better skier is looking for the more instantaneous response that stiffer boots offer.  As an example, my son is just about my size and an intermediate skier and we are looking for boots for him.  I'm looking for something in the 90 to 110 range as it is soft enough not to hinder further development and stiff enough to allow further development in the advanced stage over the next couple of years.  Going to a 130 (had the opportunity to do so, would greatly hinder skills development).

 

As a quick and dirt reference, Mondo 26.5 is a foot length of 26.5cm, so this gives you some idea what you could be looking for.  The variation in manufacturers, foot shape does change this number +/- 1 so a good boot fitter can really help here as they know the products that they sell (the really good ones also know the ones they don't sell and will recommend those too for the best fit if needed).

 

The other important number is last which is the width of the foot in mm.  Volume, we best advice is here is Boot fitter.

 

Finally, the flex rating varies from boot style to boots style as how they respond.  A 130 Race boot feels stiffer than a 130 Back Country boot even though they are from the same manufacturer and look almost identical as the materials used respond differently.

 

Sorry...more information....more confusion.  Good boot fitter.

 

Cheers,

post #17 of 35
Thread Starter 

Well, now I'm a little worried.

 

The last on the Hawx 80 are 100, and they felt great.

 

Maybe same model, but stiffer.  All my ski companions are on at least 100s, and we all ski pretty similar, I may be more aggressive than some, but I am probably the lightest.

 

I'm getting my bindings set to the new boots soon...I'm going to call the boot shop again today.

post #18 of 35

Go to a good fitter, for a good measurement and review.

 

Worth the money unless you really know what you are looking for.   A good fitting boot is more important that the ski at this point.

 

Good Luck.

post #19 of 35
Thread Starter 

We spent a lot of time on fit, and I feel like the boot fits very well.

 

My concern now is performance.  My old boots didn't fit well and they didn't perform well, either.

 

The new boots fit well, but I'm worried that they will lack the performance that I want.

 

An 80 flex just doesn't sound right for me.  I was surprised when he brought it out, and I asked many times if it would be stiff enough, and he said it would be.  Now I'm not too sure, and I want this purchase to last a while, not just look pretty for a few years before I feel the need to upgrade.

post #20 of 35
Everything Oldschoolskier is saying is good advice. I think the 80 flex is not stiff enough for you at 175 lbs. You definitely need to pull the liner out and shell size the boot and see how much room you have. The liner will pack out and if you are not in the correct size shell you will again be fighting a loose fit needing to over buckle etc.

You indicated you went down a shell size from your previous boots so I believe from what you described with your old boots that was a step in the right direction.

At the very least treat yourself to $30 Superfeet footbed . Dicks and other sporting good stores carry them in their jogging shoe dept. The Superfeet bed has a better heel pocket than the stock bed and is firmer and more substantial and will support your foot better in the boot

Good luck . Boot buying and fitting unfortunately is very entailed and you got to get it right to be able to ski your best.

Down in Ellicottville, Miguel the owner of Mud Sweat and Gears is a very knowledgeable and experienced boot fitter. He would be worth the effort to go see.
post #21 of 35
Thread Starter 

We took the liner out. The boots passed that test, at least.

post #22 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by fedad View Post
 

Rochester has limited options.  There is basically one ski shop in town, but it has two differently named stores.  I know there are some talented folks who work in them, but they also have the teenage employees doing some work, too.

 

The Bristol guy is more for people with foot pain....which I don't really have.

 

If anyone knows of the name of the good fitters at the ski company or snow, I'd appreciate it.


where do you ski?  maybe you can go to a reputable boot fitter on your home mountain.

post #23 of 35

For me stiffness has less to do about wt more of ability, skill and application.  When I started on really stiff boots I was about 135lbs in my late 20's, lean, all muscle no body fat at all.  I was easily able to flex the stiff boots which were 150+.

 

Actually you may like this thread and the comments made.

 

http://www.epicski.com/t/120994/ski-boot-stiffness-survey-we-got-nothing-better-to-do-while-waiting-for-snow

 

Enjoy.

post #24 of 35

go swap em out for the 100 flex at least.... sure he would do that if you have not skied in them and not had any modifications made... the softest mens boot we sell is a 100 flex, i know we can make them softer but making a boot stiffer is not a reality the plastic quality is so much better in the 100 flex boots as well (the 110 of the hawx 2.0 has more flexibility in terms of adjustment as well)

 

my next worries are about lack of support...may have missed the post but what footbed is in there? if none you need to find a better fitter not a seller, footbeds whilst seen by a few as a sales gimmick really do make a difference, they are the foundation of the fit, the foot is free to go through various unwanted motions in skiing without some form of support... in fact i would go as far as to say skiing is one of the few sports that everyone will benefit in some way form an orthotic insole.

post #25 of 35
Thread Starter 
Yes, I called and I'm going back today.

I'm going to try on 90s and 100s, and even 110s, and I'm asking about the foot beds and custom molding the liners.

10 years ago I was a decent skier, and let a ski company shove a beginner boot on me, and I've suffered for a decade with the lack of performance. I don't want to make the same mistake.
post #26 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by fedad View Post

Yes, I called and I'm going back today.

I'm going to try on 90s and 100s, and even 110s, and I'm asking about the foot beds and custom molding the liners.

10 years ago I was a decent skier, and let a ski company shove a beginner boot on me, and I've suffered for a decade with the lack of performance. I don't want to make the same mistake.

 

 

If possible, I'd look for a different boot fitter.  Anyone who says orthotics are only for "people who were having foot and knee pain" is not to be trusted.

post #27 of 35
Thread Starter 

Yeah, I'm going to a different guy.

post #28 of 35

Being the contrarian that I am I disagree.  Orthotics can make it fit a little better but if you don't need it to make the boot fit then why spend the extra bucks?  Are you racing, no, then why do you need such a stiff boot?  We all know the most important thing, by far, is the fit.  It sounds like this guy gave you a good fit and saved you some $ at the same time.  Win win if you ask me.

post #29 of 35
My last boots were Head Edge as well. Totally too soft for me, but the fit was great. Sure they packed out, but I made up for that by shoving thin insoles under the foot bed to take up space for years. Got 462 days out of them.

Nevertheless, when I went to get a new pair, being concerned about plastic fatigue, I asked for stiffer boots because everyone told me I needed stiffer boots if we were talking boots. (This was not ski instructors or anything). Interestingly, different shop, they put me on Head boots again. Moved my foot beds. Same shell size, not so sure about the liner size as the old liner says two sizes just like the shell. My memory has the liner size being the larger one for the last boot, but it's the smaller size for this boot. New pair has a adjustable last, which I really like because you can snug it up as the lining packs. Old pair had a 60 flex, something I just wasn't looking at the day I bought the boot. New pair is labeled some places as 110, others as 100, quite confusing.. The point is, I don't feel any difference in the boot with the extra stiffness. The extra snugness I definitely feel and I have to be careful when I buckle them not to get toe jam. They put me on some machine with lots of whirly colors evaluating stance or something. It was fine. And I had the foot bed from the old boot (actually even own another pair), so I was sent on my way, with a suggestion to come back for tweaks which I haven't done. There is a slight chance I might get the right toe eased if the liner is done packing that direction. But I have boring feet. They fit the boot right out of the box. All of $489. Based on the last pair, that'll be just over a buck a day.

Some of us don't have complicated feet. The guy helping me acted a little disappointed.
post #30 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CEM View Post

go swap em out for the 100 flex at least.... sure he would do that if you have not skied in them and not had any modifications made... the softest mens boot we sell is a 100 flex, i know we can make them softer but making a boot stiffer is not a reality the plastic quality is so much better in the 100 flex boots as well (the 110 of the hawx 2.0 has more flexibility in terms of adjustment as well)

my next worries are about lack of support...may have missed the post but what footbed is in there? if none you need to find a better fitter not a seller, footbeds whilst seen by a few as a sales gimmick really do make a difference, they are the foundation of the fit, the foot is free to go through various unwanted motions in skiing without some form of support... in fact i would go as far as to say skiing is one of the few sports that everyone will benefit in some way form an orthotic insole.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Gear Discussion
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › New Boots? [in Rochester, NY]