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2015 Lange RS130 boots, early returns

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 

Have about a week of skiing on these. 

 

Me: Middle aged advanced skier, do some Master's racing, like to make lots of turns. Finesse skier and proud of it. 165 lbs, 6' 0". Have street size 10.5-11.0 feet that are D's in front and B's at the heel. Have owned 120 flex Dalbellos for the past five years or so, lately with the K2 lasts. 

 

Boots: RS130 LV's, 26.5. 97 mm last. No mods except small push for 6th toe on both sides. Only change from last year's model is a slightly firmer liner, I'm told. 

 

Early returns: I have about a week of skiing on mostly man made, mix of sugar and ice or scratch. Lot of firm skier-created bumps. 

 

Fit and flex: Best out of the box fit for my duck feet I've ever found. These run about a size large, I downsized from Dalbello 27.5 shells with a 17 mm space to these at 26.5 with 12 mm of space. More generally, they are nothing like the hyper narrow Langes of old (I owned the first Lange's ever made, the ones that needed hair dryers to soften the "Langflow" liners from concrete into asphalt and years later tried Comps, finally swore the responsiveness was not worth the pain.) These, however, have reasonable correlations between shell shape and human feet.

 

Finally, the 130 flex feels about like a true 130 at room temp, unlike the XT130, which is more like a 110. But I may try the 120 option (top rivet out) because these stiffen up quite a bit in cold, become work for me at 165 to flex at recreational speeds. Which is odd, because the plastic feels to be high quality, very linear for a two piece shell, but it's a lot more temp sensitive than plug plastic. 

 

Pros:  Excellent liner, well contoured, firm but not harsh, and not plug thin. No serious pressure points from the shell, and doesn't look as if the shell will need major mods. Very precise response, with more snow feedback than I'm used to. Taking some adjustment after my years with a cabrio; this is a good thing in terms of refining my turns. For instance, I'm used to initiating my outside/uphill ski pretty solidly to get things going early. With these, less lag between first toe movement and changing edges, so not as big a movement required. Superior to my cabrio Dalbellos on ice or firm packed snow, which is a lot of what I ski on, and more generally, for carving. Pretty nice in variable man-made once you get used to the feedback. Bumps are doable. 

 

Cons: The last said, cannot ever be as nice in bumps or soft variable snow as a cabrio design; requires more movements from legs to compensate for the boot not absorbing shocks as well. Is what it is. Some early issues with the liner taking away too much height in the toe box. May work itself out or may require some help packing out. Footbeds out of the box are decent but not great, once things pack out a bit will put in my customs.

 

Also, these run cold. Not as cold as a typical plug, but getting there. It's particularly noticeable coming from Intuitions that came with the Dalbellos. So I may try some Mylar inserts under the footbeds, see how that helps. If it doesn't, might have to replace the very nice liners with Intuitions. Or start wearing Boot Gloves. Sigh. 

 

Summary: If you have wide forefeet and narrow ankles, and you want a boot primarily to carve up the frontside, these should head your list. If you primarily are a bump and soft snow guy, they'll work for sure, but there are better options. 

post #2 of 20
Also, these run cold. Not as cold as a typical plug, but getting there. It's particularly noticeable coming from Intuitions that came with the Dalbellos. So I may try some Mylar inserts under the footbeds, see how that helps. If it doesn't, might have to replace the very nice liners with Intuitions. Or start wearing Boot Gloves. Sigh. 

Summary: If you have wide forefeet and narrow ankles, and you want a boot primarily to carve up the frontside, these should head your list. If you primarily are a bump and soft snow guy, they'll work for sure, but there are better options. 
[/quote]

Not familiar with Mylar inserts and maybe improving boot warmth. I have not heard of this before. Years back I had some type of heat reflective foil I put under the footbed but the effects were pretty negligible. Interested in how Mylar could be applied . Thanks.
post #3 of 20

Interesting..I have the RS130 2014 and think they are one of the warmest boots I have ever worn...wonder if the liner changed

post #4 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by UGASkiDawg View Post

Interesting..I have the RS130 2014 and think they are one of the warmest boots I have ever worn...wonder if the liner changed
Sounds nice. I think my RS 120s are from 2012, and they're hardly warm despite an excellent fitting. Boot gloves help just a little, but there's no room for chemical warmers--though I was thinking I might slip a few between the boot glove and the shell's forefoot. BTW, I have no problem with snow under the boot gloves, probably because I sized down for a very tight fit. I get out of my skis to adjust buckles 1, 2 and 3 after my first run or two (the bottom buckle is always loose), and it's no problem to release the velcro to play around with them.

This may be the year I give in and get Hotronics/Sidas boot heaters. I hate having another piece of gear to deal with, but I hate stopping to warm up even more. The idea of non-frigid feet is heavenly. tongue.gif
post #5 of 20
Thread Starter 

^^^^ I have examined the new RS 130 liners more closely out of the boot. They're very nicely done around the ankle, heel, and midfoot. Seem to be a medium thick dense foam against the shell side, with a very soft lightweight foam against the foot. However, the forefoot and toebox are afterthoughts. Moccasin style stitching, which is normal for a high end shell, but very little actual foam, and what's there is 90% lightweight stuff. 

 

Compared to my Intuitions Power Wraps, which are high density and thick, without a plastic overlayer, the Head's are thinner all around, which is to be expected for a race bred boot, but especially thinner in the front. I guess the tradeoff is more volume for the toes. I double checked the shell fit, and it's even more than the 12 mm I thought, closer to 16. Plenty. Not a shell issue. 

 

So it's an easy, if expensive solution: Either Hotronics or Intuition tongue liners, prolly the FX. Latter is cheaper and lower tech, so looking like that's my call. 

post #6 of 20
I'll ask my guy what he'd suggest when i see him, almost certainly within the next few days. Thing is, I really like the liners. th_dunno-1[1].gif
post #7 of 20
Thread Starter 

^^^ Will look forward to hearing what he says. My boot shop thinks Intuitions will help most. But $$$, obviously. Another approach I'm looking into is jury rigging some aluminized Mylar over the top of the forward liner. I already own Boot Gloves, while I'm waiting on The Perfect Fix.

post #8 of 20

Nice review.  Just got the '15 WC, and the lace up liners are much improved, especially in the toe box area (no more moccasin/stitching).  They make my old lace ups look like pos.  Haven't been out yet, but they felt great in the shop and I can't wait to use them.  I don't think this helps you, but thought I'd share while we're on the subject of liners.

 

Curious if the '15 RS liner shares any improvements with the lace up (sounds like the toe box area hasn't been addressed).  I had the '14 RS130 last year, though I didn't use the liner that came with it (used my old lace ups).  Found them to be warm enough, but I'm used to very cold boots. 


Edited by Hoss - 11/20/14 at 1:01pm
post #9 of 20

I had the RX130 Low Volumes and while they were too big, volume wise, (which may have contributed) they were like sticking my feet in nearly frozen water.  Ski Patron Pros now and the stock liner was significantly warmer - added ZipFits and they are like furnaces.  They are black and as small as that may seem, I think it adds warmth.

post #10 of 20

I have the RS110 (97mm) with ZipFit WC liners. Went with the 110 over the 130 as the ZipFits significantly stiffened the flex. I'm 5'8", 150 and have an aggressive style that has been described as smooth and fast. I find them warm even in extreme cold (with BootGloves). Either I generate a lot of heat because I rarely take a turn off or perhaps it is increased warmth from the ZipFits as "pigeye" has experienced. I have not skied them with the stock liner so don't have a reference point for warmth as compared to the ZipFits. About a 14mm fit in a 26.5 shell. I've used ZipFits for the last 15 years or so and love the feel but they do increase the flex in every boot I've had. (mostly Lange and Head). If I had to guess, I think the precise fit I get from  ZipFits allows me to get a performance "feel"  with less buckle tension thus permitting increased circulation and more comfort.

post #11 of 20
Well, father and son both said I wouldn't get more than five degrees out of any liner, which makes sense, given that I have a performance fit in a low volume boot. So I left with brand new Sidas boot heaters. It would have been cheaper to buy Intuitions, but it seems that the Sidas batteries run longer, and the heating element is much larger, so I went with it.

And with the tweaks, my boots are back to their original fit, except that the few annoying pinched spots that never merited a separate trip to The Man are now comfy cozy. icon14.gif
post #12 of 20
Thread Starter 

Update: Shells remain a nice fit. May require a small punch on one side of one boot. Replaced the stock 26.5 liners with my 27.0 plug liners. And have learned to put on liners first, then shells. Some improvement in warmth at no cost to space. On coldest days have broken out Boot Gloves (not proud). But have ordered some Intuitions, will report back.

 

Also, have purchased some XT LV 130's, also 26.5, for western skiing or softer/tree days back here. Shell/last is nearly identical, liner is significantly softer than the RS130's. Walk lock is better than last year's, and the upper shell feels significantly stiffer. Soles are great for walking, which can be an adventure in the RS's. Still not a true 130, but say a 115-120 now. I am anticipating I can get the same punches and use the same liners. We'll see. 

post #13 of 20
Beyond, just curious.., If they're too stiff for off piste/bumps, why not just remove the upper or lower pin on the spine and ski them? Lange also makes a nice vibram lifter for the RS soles you can add for walking/booting. You'll have to router the boot lugs, but..,,
post #14 of 20
Thread Starter 

Good questions, good ideas ^^^^. I tend to race or handle ice best at around 120-125 flex and otherwise ski best at 115 or so. So am trying my RS's with the top bolt removed and some electrical tape over hole, yep. Actually now feel a touch too soft, but a touch too stiff with both screws in. Am thinking that with an Intuition they'll be about right. Funny thing is that they fit so well, in terms of my foot shape, and are otherwise such a high performance shell, that I like them better on course than my 8 year old plugs. Which have nicer plastic but otherwise don't fit as well even after extensive grinding. 

 

Didn't know about the lifter. Was going to have my soles canted so didn't even think that direction. Sounds like a really good solution for folks who want a bit more traction, otherwise love the RS shell. 

post #15 of 20

Beyond....This review mirrors my experience with ZipFits and flex/warmth in an RS shell. I did initially try easing the flex by removing spine bolts as this reviewer has done but felt like it took some "Zip" out of the boot. Pun intended! I ended up by grinding out the marked areas on the lower shell and leaving the spine bolts in and they're perfect. I bit softer flex, smooth and consistent but still punchy. Also, my boots came with black plastic plugs to seal the bolt holes. A little better appearance than electrical tape. I'll bet you could grab some from any Lange dealer if you end up ever skiing them without a bolt.    http://blistergearreview.com/gear-reviews/zipfit-world-cup-liner

post #16 of 20
Remove top bolt gives 6% softer, remove bottom leave top- 12% softer. Remove both- 20% softer. - not recommended by many, considered dangerous by some.

Figures from Lange:
http://www.lange-boots.com/PL/FR/recommendations-skiboots.html#close
post #17 of 20
Thread Starter 

Further update: Put in some Intuition Dreamliners, Med Vol. 26. Mostly solved my remaining problems. Although they are advertised as among Intuition's softest liners, they're stiffer in the body - and with a far greater proportion of denser to softer foam - than the stock liner or my old Sollie Plug liners. The latter two have a lot of plastic in the tongues, and more thin plastic around the sides of the ankle, but the foam itself is mostly highly compressible and cheap feeling. Outcome: Now somewhat warmer than stock liners + boot gloves. So big improvement. Much snugger fit around ankle, much more room in toes. Less leverage on shell from the tongue, so you feel the shell flex more, get less help from the liner. May be a good thing or a bad thing. I like it. Would like to try a Luxury Med Vol. in a 27; apparently gives up a bit of toe box but will wear better. 

post #18 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post
 

Further update: Put in some Intuition Dreamliners, Med Vol. 26. Mostly solved my remaining problems. Although they are advertised as among Intuition's softest liners, they're stiffer in the body - and with a far greater proportion of denser to softer foam - than the stock liner or my old Sollie Plug liners. The latter two have a lot of plastic in the tongues, and more thin plastic around the sides of the ankle, but the foam itself is mostly highly compressible and cheap feeling. Outcome: Now somewhat warmer than stock liners + boot gloves. So big improvement. Much snugger fit around ankle, much more room in toes. Less leverage on shell from the tongue, so you feel the shell flex more, get less help from the liner. May be a good thing or a bad thing. I like it. Would like to try a Luxury Med Vol. in a 27; apparently gives up a bit of toe box but will wear better. 


What is the overall thickness of Dreamliner in MV vs. the stock liner? Does it take up more volume or similar? BTW, did you heat mold these? I know Intuition says it's not necessary with the Dreamliners.

post #19 of 20
Thread Starter 

The MV Dreamliner is a little thicker overall, say 2-3 mm, which is most noticeable at the ankle and mid foot. But there's more room in the toebox, which I attribute to a different shape, less bullet-like and a bit higher, rather than less foam thickness. That's why they recommend going with the same size as the shell, whereas the other models they suggest a size up; the Dreamliners have their biggest toebox. The bed has about 3 mm of denser foam, and some type of synthetic sole, so room for inserts. I tried the flat foam inserts they provide, will put in my customs soon. 

 

Didn't heat mold, although I could have, they send along a kit. But you can feel them starting to mold within a day. They remind me of a very well-designed stock liner that uses high quality materials and gets the basics (more foam in the back, more room in the toes) right. That leads me to believe that they'll wear out/pack out sooner than the heat moldable liners, but guess it's a tradeoff with the lack of hassle. The MV PW's I've used are not so much thicker overall than these as the dense foam is, ah, denser and there's no second inner layer of moderate give foam. They last 100-150 days, YMMV.

post #20 of 20
Thread Starter 

Last post, most likely: Dreamliners have packed out enough to put in molded footbeds. Happy camper. Boots are warm enough - although nothing to shout about - and Dreamliners now are in that sweet spot where every bump and valley is accommodated. Suspect they won't last in that space for more than another 50 days, but hey. These are my race/ice boots, so liners don't need to be high mileage.

 

In truth, it's the shells that impress. Best I've ever found out of box for wide forefeet and narrow ankles, and the amount of shell work wasn't stupendous. Very nice flex pattern, very quick laterally. Only remaining issue, which I'll have to learn to live with, is heel hold. Intuitions tend not to have heel pockets that extend rearward very far. Lange shells go further. But frankly, no two piece shell is going to get it done like a cabrio, heel lock down wise. Sigh. But this is an issue I can deal with. A longer liner might help, when that time has come. 

 

Warning: If you buy Langes online, you could get screwed. They run about 3/4 mondo larger than any other boot. So you may need to size down, or may not. Moreover, the width is determined on the 26 shell, so add or subtract 2 mm per mondo increase or decrease from there. And any custom liners may need to be a size longer than you think. Eg, this is boot that you will need a fitter for, unless you just want big n' sloppy. 

 

Out. 

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