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Blizzard Kabookie verses Bonafide

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 
[/I]has anyone compared the blizzard kabookie to the bonafied. I am 5'11 180lbs high intermediate and aggresive skier. I know they both have the same footprint, but have not heard that much abiut the kabookie compared to all the good talk about the bones. Thank you ahead of time.

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post #2 of 16

The Kabookie is a lighter weight version of the Bonefied without metal and a softer wood core. I havn't skied the Kabookie but if you are an aggressive skier and are capable of handling a heavier and stiffer ski i would recommend the Bonefied over the Kabookie.

post #3 of 16

if you are not planning to go on the diet ... I would go with Bones (180 lb), especially if you are aggressive. Google it, there are a lot of threads about Bones vs. Kabookie

post #4 of 16

I respectfully disagree.  There seems to be this knee jerk macho based bias toward metal skis which excel at stability at mach speeds and icy or heavy conditions while your average expert skier spends most of their day ripping quick turns on corduroy, negotiating bumps, and slicing some trees.  My money would be on the Kabookie for fun versus work.

post #5 of 16

I love reading the misconceptions people generally have about metal in skis.

 

You do not need to ski at mach speeds or be an expert skier to benefit from the characteristics of metal.  How

many old people do you meet that still love their Volants? 

 

Metal does not make a ski stiffer!  It might make a ski slightly torsionally stiffer but you could probably make a 

glass ski just as stiff with enough glass.

 

If you saw one of the pieces of metal that goes into a ski in it's raw form it is not stiff at all.  In fact it's very flimsy.

 

Metal makes a ski damp.  Some companies say they can make skis very damp without using metal but they don't

have the same feeling as skis with metal regardless of the wood or how much rubber or whatever it is they use.

Metal skis tend to be more predictable as well.  A little less twitchy.

 

If the skis has two sheets of metal and those sheets of metal extend out over the edge then you will get better grip on

hard snow due to the fact that when on edge the edge deflects less. 

 

When it comes to the Kabookie and Bonafide you will get a lighter ski with a little more pop but less precision on hard

snow in the Kabookie.  With the Bonafide you will get a more damp ski that tends to get deflected less and is more

precise on edge yet weighs slightly more. 

 

 

post #6 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by wasatchback View Post 

 

Metal does not make a ski stiffer!  It might make a ski slightly torsionally stiffer but you could probably make a 

glass ski just as stiff with enough glass. True but somewhat misleading. Classic racing skis like the VR17 are a case in point of how glass and wood skis can be silly stiff. But in reality, manufacturers do tend to use metal to achieve the same or greater stiffness with less cross sectional area, and you know this. Yes, there may be a few torsionally soft metal skis you can ferret out as examples, but in general, I'd bet that the large majority of metal skis are stiffer than the large majority of non-metal skis. You're just pointing out that the ranges overlap. Not the same thing. 

 

If you saw one of the pieces of metal that goes into a ski in it's raw form it is not stiff at all.  In fact it's very flimsy. Only in terms of longitudinal flex across 180 cm or so. A  half mm of sheet alu is not "flimsy" torsionally. More to the point, it's how it interacts with its combination with other materials determines its contribution to the modulus of elasticity. The cable wires that are used in ferro-cement sag under their own weight. Stick them into a mold, pour in concrete and you have a bridge pilling. Or a skyscraper. 

 

Metal makes a ski damp. Very true. Some companies say they can make skis very damp without using metal but they don't

have the same feeling as skis with metal regardless of the wood or how much rubber or whatever it is they use.

Metal skis tend to be more predictable as well.  A little less twitchy. This is fairly subjective language. I wouldn't call a BMX108 "twitchy," nor would I call several Moment or Praxis products used in elite competition to be less predictable than say a Cochise. You like the feel of metal, all good. Doesn't mean you need to denigrate non-metal feel; why not just say it has its own quality? Unless of course, you have a vested interest in pushing metal skis. ;)

 

If the skis has two sheets of metal and those sheets of metal extend out over the edge then you will get better grip on

hard snow due to the fact that when on edge the edge deflects less. You're contradicting yourself. Higher up, you said that metal "does not make a ski stiffer," it only makes a ski damper. Now you're saying that it prevents the edge from deflecting. Which can only occur because it's stiffer than the same cross sectional area of wood and glass over the same edge.

 

When it comes to the Kabookie and Bonafide you will get a lighter ski with a little more pop but less precision on hard

snow in the Kabookie.  With the Bonafide you will get a more damp ski that tends to get deflected less and is more

precise on edge yet weighs slightly more. Interesting to me that you don't bring up carbon. Which has both pop and stiffness at less weight than metal. Nor is it inevitably less damp; I owned the first year Cronus, among a half dozen or so Blizzards I've had beginning with the old Titan 9's; still have a pair of Ones and some others. The Cronus and One's are both fairly damp, moderately flexing carbon and wood skis with a lot of pop. Apparently too soft for the company's taste? 

 

 

 

post #7 of 16

I'm about your size. I would call myself an advanced skier who skis expert terrain in all kinds of snow. I would not call myself aggressive (not on skis anyways) and I do not ski fast.I do like damp skis that hold an edge--the skis I like all seem to have metal. I love the Bones (180)--I don't find them too stiff or heavy. Haven't skied the Kabookie. I would say go with the Bonafide unless you're looking for a touring ski, where weight matters.

post #8 of 16
Hopefully this might help. I have them both. I set the Kabookie up for backcountry use (barons). I like the bones better for harder snow resort use. They are both great skis. I bought the Kabookie first and the bones a year later because I wanted a slightly stiffer ski. Yes I'm a gear junkie.
Me 5 11 180 fairly aggressive
post #9 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by wasatchback View Post
 

I love reading the misconceptions people generally have about metal in skis.

 

You do not need to ski at mach speeds or be an expert skier to benefit from the characteristics of metal.  How

many old people do you meet that still love their Volants? 

 

Metal does not make a ski stiffer!  It might make a ski slightly torsionally stiffer but you could probably make a 

glass ski just as stiff with enough glass.

 

If you saw one of the pieces of metal that goes into a ski in it's raw form it is not stiff at all.  In fact it's very flimsy.

 

Metal makes a ski damp.  Some companies say they can make skis very damp without using metal but they don't

have the same feeling as skis with metal regardless of the wood or how much rubber or whatever it is they use.

Metal skis tend to be more predictable as well.  A little less twitchy.

 

If the skis has two sheets of metal and those sheets of metal extend out over the edge then you will get better grip on

hard snow due to the fact that when on edge the edge deflects less. 

 

When it comes to the Kabookie and Bonafide you will get a lighter ski with a little more pop but less precision on hard

snow in the Kabookie.  With the Bonafide you will get a more damp ski that tends to get deflected less and is more

precise on edge yet weighs slightly more. 

 

 

 

 

Very good points, and I stand corrected - to a degree.  I would still contend that for whatever reason (layup, materials, etc) skis with metal in them are on average heavier and stiffer than those without.  The Bonafide is heavier and stiffer than the Kabookie.

 

While a strip of metal by itself is very flimsy, when you bond or sandwich it (2 layers) with other materials (ie. wood), the result is the "plywood" effect which can cause the wood to become very constricted in its flex.

 

What really matters in the end, you sum up perfectly:

"When it comes to the Kabookie and Bonafide you will get a lighter ski with a little more pop but less precision on hard snow in the Kabookie.  With the Bonafide you will get a more damp ski that tends to get deflected less and is more precise on edge yet weighs slightly more".

post #10 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fritzski View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wasatchback View Post
 

I love reading the misconceptions people generally have about metal in skis.

 

You do not need to ski at mach speeds or be an expert skier to benefit from the characteristics of metal.  How

many old people do you meet that still love their Volants? 

 

Metal does not make a ski stiffer!  It might make a ski slightly torsionally stiffer but you could probably make a 

glass ski just as stiff with enough glass.

 

If you saw one of the pieces of metal that goes into a ski in it's raw form it is not stiff at all.  In fact it's very flimsy.

 

Metal makes a ski damp.  Some companies say they can make skis very damp without using metal but they don't

have the same feeling as skis with metal regardless of the wood or how much rubber or whatever it is they use.

Metal skis tend to be more predictable as well.  A little less twitchy.

 

If the skis has two sheets of metal and those sheets of metal extend out over the edge then you will get better grip on

hard snow due to the fact that when on edge the edge deflects less. 

 

When it comes to the Kabookie and Bonafide you will get a lighter ski with a little more pop but less precision on hard

snow in the Kabookie.  With the Bonafide you will get a more damp ski that tends to get deflected less and is more

precise on edge yet weighs slightly more. 

 

 

 

 

Very good points, and I stand corrected - to a degree.  I would still contend that for whatever reason (layup, materials, etc) skis with metal in them are on average heavier and stiffer than those without.  The Bonafide is heavier and stiffer than the Kabookie.

 

While a strip of metal by itself is very flimsy, when you bond or sandwich it (2 layers) with other materials (ie. wood), the result is the "plywood" effect which can cause the wood to become very constricted in its flex.

 

What really matters in the end, you sum up perfectly:

"When it comes to the Kabookie and Bonafide you will get a lighter ski with a little more pop but less precision on hard snow in the Kabookie.  With the Bonafide you will get a more damp ski that tends to get deflected less and is more precise on edge yet weighs slightly more".

The arguably beefiest ski of all time, the K2 VO Slalom not only didn't have metal in it, it didn't have wood either. 

post #11 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by wasatchback View Post
 

I love reading the misconceptions people generally have about metal in skis.

 

You do not need to ski at mach speeds or be an expert skier to benefit from the characteristics of metal.  How

many old people do you meet that still love their Volants? 

 

Metal does not make a ski stiffer!  It might make a ski slightly torsionally stiffer but you could probably make a 

glass ski just as stiff with enough glass.

 

If you saw one of the pieces of metal that goes into a ski in it's raw form it is not stiff at all.  In fact it's very flimsy.

 

Metal makes a ski damp.  Some companies say they can make skis very damp without using metal but they don't

have the same feeling as skis with metal regardless of the wood or how much rubber or whatever it is they use.

Metal skis tend to be more predictable as well.  A little less twitchy.

 

If the skis has two sheets of metal and those sheets of metal extend out over the edge then you will get better grip on

hard snow due to the fact that when on edge the edge deflects less. 

 

When it comes to the Kabookie and Bonafide you will get a lighter ski with a little more pop but less precision on hard

snow in the Kabookie.  With the Bonafide you will get a more damp ski that tends to get deflected less and is more

precise on edge yet weighs slightly more. 

 

 

 

QFT 

Great comparison description.  

 

@Fritzski , I would contend that the Kabookie is lighter and more nimble than the Bonafide, but not softer than the Bonafide. 

post #12 of 16

why don't you test/demo both... on the same day, identical conditions.... if you would able to see the difference, great, if not, get the cheaper one :)

post #13 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
 

The arguably beefiest ski of all time, the K2 VO Slalom not only didn't have metal in it, it didn't have wood either. 

 

Now there was a stiff racing ski.   During one of my more stupid assumptions I bought the VO for racing but never could bend the ski.  Hey the Mahres did it so why couldn't I  -  well let me count the reasons 1 - 2- 3 -4 ..........................................22..........................30....................50...

post #14 of 16

If you go w/ the Bones, watch your length. 180 seems to be the sweet spot.

post #15 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
 
The arguably beefiest ski of all time, the K2 VO Slalom not only didn't have metal in it, it didn't have wood either. 

It was made out of beef? (Sorry, sometimes I can't help it.)

post #16 of 16

For a more complete discussion of the similarities and differences of these skis, follow this link....

 

http://www.dawgcatching.com/blog/ski/blizzard-kabookie-and-bonafide-nordica-hell-back-kastle-fx94

 

 

Keep in mind that this review is from a person who is lighter than you.

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