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Light-weight short radius/slalom skis good for bumps as well? [Northeast]

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 

Hi,

I ski in the Northeast and I am trying to find out if there's a ski that is good at short/slalom turns on hard snow and ice at somewhat moderate speeds but also does ok on (sometimes icy) moguls? I am average+ skier, can carve well, and am just starting off with the moguls in the last 1-2 years. 5'6", 130lbs, 40yo.

 

If would be nice bonus if the ski will not be a total dud in soft snow and powder.

 

So basically a light, but decent carver that can do other things as well.

 

Thanks in advance,

S.

 

Mod note: moved to Gear

post #2 of 29

My first inclination was to say the Blizzard Latigo, a great 78mm ski that has the shape and flex that makes it a great ski in the bumps, they you want sort turns and powder, so I will then suggest Scott's The Ski, at 90ish underfoot it is a bit wider but it has a shorter turn built into it and wide enough to be good in powder for you. You are not that big of a guy and don't need/want a stiff ski. 

post #3 of 29
Thread Starter 

Thanks for the very interesting suggestion...I must figure out where I can demo the Latigo.

post #4 of 29

Another suggestion:  Head Rally.  Carves well, handles bumps well...

 

As for powder...  Realistically, you're in the Northeast.  Powder doesn't last more than 30 minutes here unless you're venturing into the trees.  Is that a realistic expectation for you?  (Serious question).  If not, a ski on edge that's carving on the underlying hardpack will blast through any random powder piles that are scattered about.

post #5 of 29
Thread Starter 

Yes, I am looking at the Rally, they are looking really good too, especially if I can find last year's model on sale...

 

So the way I see it, the Latigo is more all-mountain-but-can-carve, while the Rally is carver-but-can-do-all-mountain.

 

Agree about the powder here, it's just that I have a trip to Utah next year (first time skiing outside of NE), so put the powder as a non-essential, but still desirable feature...if my wife likes the trip, that is.

 

Btw, head skis can have head/tyrolia bindings only, was that the case?

post #6 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoyan View Post
 

Yes, I am looking at the Rally, they are looking really good too, especially if I can find last year's model on sale...

 

So the way I see it, the Latigo is more all-mountain-but-can-carve, while the Rally is carver-but-can-do-all-mountain.

 

Agree about the powder here, it's just that I have a trip to Utah next year (first time skiing outside of NE), so put the powder as a non-essential, but still desirable feature...if my wife likes the trip, that is.

 

Btw, head skis can have head/tyrolia bindings only, was that the case?

 

If you're going to Utah, just demo when you get there, especially if you luck into a powder day.  I live in the Northeast as well and went out to Utah last year...  I didn't even think about bringing my Rally's out there (but then again I do have powder skis, and I don't go to Utah to ski groomers...).

 

Even if you're on the groomers in Utah... The tight turning radius of the Rally, coupled with the altitude and the fact that it's a whole lot longer to get down...  Your legs will be screaming at you.

post #7 of 29

The Head Rally is a good choice.  I demoed it at Killington last year and liked it - felt pretty good in the bumps also.  FWIW I'm 5'8" and 155lbs.  There are essentially zero of this ski leftover from last year so you are looking at new 2015s (no deals).  One ski that you might find leftover is the Fisher Progressor 800.  I had its predecessor the Progessor 8+ and it fits your criteria pretty well.  Carves well, not as demanding as a race ski, good in bumps, still fun in a few inches of fresh snow, and not too stiff. 

post #8 of 29

Don't know where you are in the Northeast, but the Mt. Sunapee, NH demo day is Saturday, Dec. 13 — Blizzard, Dynastar, Head, Rossignol, Völkl, Fischer, Nordica, among, apparently, others.  I've been planning to try the Latigo.

post #9 of 29
The turn radius wil be irrelevant in bumps, and a slalom ski wil not do well in bumps either.
Edited by rod9301 - 11/4/14 at 3:12pm
post #10 of 29
I hope to get a Rally to ski this season and don't know whether to get a 170 or 177 cm. I have a Head TT 80 in a 177 and love it and don't think I would want it any shorter. Have an older Head I Speed 170 cm and felt like I wanted it a little longer. The I Speed when put base to base have no camber and I think are "dead" lifeless skis. I also have a 176 Head Peak 90 ski that I bought for going west and again I like the 176 length.

My favorite of the Head lineup is the older TT 80 I bought new last season for $ 239 with bindings from Level Nine. For me these skis are great.I am 6 ft 168 lbs. don't ski fast and these skis really ski great for me. Anyway , I "ll be bummed if I get the Rally and still prefer the TT 80.

Maybe I just should enjoy What I have. You can't find a Rally in Vail to demo.Skied an afternoon two years ago on a Rev 85 177 cm, nothing wrong with that ski maybe I prefer my 90 Peaks more.
post #11 of 29
Thread Starter 

Thanks for the replies,

Some more homework to be done, but appreciate all the advise.

post #12 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by rod9301 View Post

The turn radius wil be irrelevant in bumps, and a slalom ski will not do well in bumps either.

 

While you are correct that a slalom race ski will not be a good choice in the bumps due to the stiffness of two layers of metal, sidecut is indeed a relevant issue.  High sidecut results in a hooky ski that wants to grab whatever it can, which is why competition bump skis have very little sidecut.

post #13 of 29
fritzski, you are absolutely correct.that is what I was trying to say in very few words, since I'm typing on my phone.
post #14 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoyan View Post
 

Hi,

I ski in the Northeast and I am trying to find out if there's a ski that is good at short/slalom turns on hard snow and ice at somewhat moderate speeds but also does ok on (sometimes icy) moguls? I am average+ skier, can carve well, and am just starting off with the moguls in the last 1-2 years. 5'6", 130lbs, 40yo.

 

If would be nice bonus if the ski will not be a total dud in soft snow and powder.

 

So basically a light, but decent carver that can do other things as well.

 

Thanks in advance,

S.

 

Mod note: moved to Gear

A ski that's good at actual short radius turns - which very few people do for very long because of the energy involved - will have stiffer tails that aren't necessarily happy in bumps. At best, they'll be very quick, but you will need to carve the troughs, which can resemble hard labor. Nor will it be all that great in powder because of its deep sidecut.  A high 70's to mid 80's all mountain with a deepish sidecut for that genre (15-18 m) should be the ticket. Personally, I have a very high opinion of the Head Rev series for skiers with the mission you describe, and the Head Rally fits the bill if you want a bit more hard snow chops and a bit less soft snow. The Volkl RTM's are very popular, Fischer is making some very nice skis in this range this season, and yep, the Latigo for sure. 

post #15 of 29

I have a bit of time on Hart bump skis. They are fantastic on the bumps and fun on the firm groomers back to the lift. I haven't tried them in anything powdery. But if bumps are your passion and you will be playing in the moguls on days when conditions aren't perfect, consider a pure bump ski. 

 

My personal firm bump ski is a Volkl Race tiger SL. I installed light bindings on my older flat skis so despite the racing heritage, they aren't too heavy in the bumps. Regarding the "hooky" characteristics of a slalom cut, this can be used as an advantage. Most bumps are formed on a softer slower day. I use that edge grab to check my speed on the firmer faster days. Plus a slalom ski is really fun to play with on the groomers.

 

My favorite everyday ski is the ultralight Goode 78 from a few years ago. Great in the bumps, powder and friendly groomers. The light weight and responsiveness really helps me out in the bumps. Maybe not the best for eastern skiing as they aren't great on ice or for fast cruising. But for my Tahoe preferences, the most fun skis I have ever owned. They have held up well too - I'm still riding them.

 

Eric

post #16 of 29

At your weight, I think I would prefer the bushwacker over the brahma...No metal so even lighter but nice edge grip and fun in bumps, icy conditions and fresh snow.... You can also look for the Nordica Steadfast on the net: same things...

 

I would have something for you: my speed cross, but I think they are too long...

http://www.epicski.com/t/124259/dynastar-speed-cross-178cm

 

Also, if you want a ski that is more towards a slalom feel (13 m radius at 163 cm) but still soft enough for bumps, nice edge grip: the head supershape i.speed that I preferred over the Rally and the others... But at 66 mm underfoot, it would be less fun in fresh snow than the 2 listed above...

post #17 of 29

I noticed several suggestions for the Rally (76 mm), but what about the Magnum (72 mm), particularly given the OP's clear hard snow/ice bias?  I've read the latter is a better ski, though I've not been on either.

 

OTOH, Fischer's are some of the easiest skis to find new at a substantial discount, e.g.,

http://www.amazon.com/Fischer-Progressor-C-Line-Flowflex-Bindings/dp/B00EPIZRX8/ref=pd_sim_sbs_sg_10?ie=UTF8&refRID=1YKF83DFK8FGTPHY5RC0

http://www.amazon.com/Fischer-Superrace-Powerrail-Skis-Bindings/dp/B00EPJ0AJI/ref=sr_1_9?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1415292906&sr=1-9&keywords=fischer+skis

post #18 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by chemist View Post
 

I noticed several suggestions for the Rally (76 mm), but what about the Magnum (72 mm), particularly given the OP's clear hard snow/ice bias?  I've read the latter is a better ski, though I've not been on either.

 

OTOH, Fischer's are some of the easiest skis to find new at a substantial discount, e.g.,

http://www.amazon.com/Fischer-Progressor-C-Line-Flowflex-Bindings/dp/B00EPIZRX8/ref=pd_sim_sbs_sg_10?ie=UTF8&refRID=1YKF83DFK8FGTPHY5RC0

http://www.amazon.com/Fischer-Superrace-Powerrail-Skis-Bindings/dp/B00EPJ0AJI/ref=sr_1_9?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1415292906&sr=1-9&keywords=fischer+skis

 

I spent last season beer league racing on my Rally's...  they hold.  Maybe not "race ski level edge grip", but should be plenty good enough for "normal" usage.

post #19 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinF View Post
 

 

I spent last season beer league racing on my Rally's...  they hold.  Maybe not "race ski level edge grip", but should be plenty good enough for "normal" usage.

Understood, but what I was wondering -- since the OP has a choice here -- is how the Rallys compare to the Magnums.   For instance, maybe the Magnums are only marginally worse in soft snow, but notably better on hard.  [I ask because I've heard good things about the Magnum, but see the Rally mentioned much more commonly on Epic.] [19 google hits in past year on epic for "head magnum" + "head supershape magnum' (which also gives "head isupershape magnum"), 39 for same search substituting rally; and from the posts I've personally read, I almost never see mention of the Magnum.]


Edited by chemist - 11/6/14 at 2:00pm
post #20 of 29

Everyone is focusing on what kind of ski and that's not bad.  But because you like carving AND you want to take the ski into the bumps, be careful of the edge tune and don't make them overly sharp.  You want an edge tune that will allow you to engage and hold a sweet carve, but not hook up so much that you shoot across the fall line at mach 3 with your hair on fire. In short, you want that ski to allow you a clean release and without too much effort. 

post #21 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdtj View Post
 

Everyone is focusing on what kind of ski and that's not bad.  But because you like carving AND you want to take the ski into the bumps, be careful of the edge tune and don't make them overly sharp.  You want an edge tune that will allow you to engage and hold a sweet carve, but not hook up so much that you shoot across the fall line at mach 3 with your hair on fire. In short, you want that ski to allow you a clean release and without too much effort. 

 

I ski everything with the same tune, which is 0.7 base, 3 degree side, and most would consider that to be a pretty sharp edge.  This is partly why I cautioned against short-turn radius skis in the bumps (in another thread I believe...) because of their tendency to hook up.  I find skis with a high-teens turn radius though won't hook up quickly enough for the tune to be a big problem.

post #22 of 29

Hey, since everyone's advertising here: how about a softish, lightweight and nimble carver?  

http://www.epicski.com/t/129695/fs-dynastar-contact-crossti-172cm-hard-snow-carvers

post #23 of 29
Thread Starter 

Hi All,

Appreciate all the feedback; I found the Fischer Progressor 800 for $380 on amazon following chemist's suggestion and could not resist ordering them. Thanks again.

post #24 of 29

For someone at your weight, I think I would prefer the bushwacker to the Brahma... Still stiff but no metal; so even lighter and good edge grip... Also, if you can find a pair of Nordica Steadfast: light, snappy great in bumps and very good edge grip... These skis are also very nice in fresh snow ( up to 1.5 feet)

 

I have a pair of speed cross for sale  that would be perfect for what you are searching for; but at 177cm, I think they would be too long?

 

 

If you want something more with a slalom feel: the supershape i.speed ( 13 m radius at 163 cm). They have a soft flex that makes them nice in bumps too and good edge grip... but at 66 mm underfoot, not so good in fresh snow... but would be nice in 95% of the time here...

post #25 of 29

I really liked the progressor 900! So I'm guessing that at your weight, you should really like the 800... Didn't really got in bumps with them; felt stiff for that but the 800 are less stiff so...have fun!

post #26 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinF View Post
 

 

I ski everything with the same tune, which is 0.7 base, 3 degree side, and most would consider that to be a pretty sharp edge.  This is partly why I cautioned against short-turn radius skis in the bumps (in another thread I believe...) because of their tendency to hook up.  I find skis with a high-teens turn radius though won't hook up quickly enough for the tune to be a big problem.


That's real sharp.  You have to really have your moves down to get across your skis and to the new edge, but if you do that right- PHAT carve. Your point about high teens turn radius is well taken.  I remember when a GS race ski used to be the preferred weapon of choice for an all mountain ski.  Shapes have changed all that.

post #27 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoyan View Post
 

Hi All,

Appreciate all the feedback; I found the Fischer Progressor 800 for $380 on amazon following chemist's suggestion and could not resist ordering them. Thanks again.

 

Enjoy them.  Great deal.  As I noted in Post #7, I think you will find them a good match to what you are looking for.

post #28 of 29
Keep in mind I am just a bit old school, ok a lot old school. My suggestion would be a good carving / eastern hard pack ski of the proper length. If you want to use it as a one quiver ski, the length should be within +/-5cm of your height. Due to the combination of a slalom type sidecut and the longer length, this type of ski will handle well on all terrain and in all conditions. Before I switched to a modern shaped ski (only 4 years ago), I was still skiing on my old gear from the early 1980s; a 205cm Fisher slalom, and a 205cm Elan GS. My preferred terrain is moguls, trees, and steeps; yes, I prefer powder, but the snow conditions really don't matter. Now my one quiver ski is a 183cm 2008 Volkl Race Tiger GS ( I am 5/'10 and 160lbs); but, due to the FIS changes, the new GS skis will handle much differently than the pre-change models. If you are having trouble finding the proper length, a good alernative might be a recreational GS model. They will be long enough, and they still tend to have a more radical sidecut than the new FIS GS models.
post #29 of 29
I ski k2 super free and it's amazing. I have the women's version. I'm 5'5"/145 and ski 165's. I ski bumps and trees with the occasional groomer in the Mideast region and they're fabulous. The last 2 years I've taken them to Lake Louise, Sunshine, Park City and Alta in the powder and was extremely pleased. They make a men's version that sounds like a fit for you!
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