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Is ski design making instruction obsolete beyond the beginner level? - Page 14

post #391 of 401
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGolfAnalogy View Post
 

 

I seem to have very square feet. My shoe length size is mens 8 to 8.5 but I often end up going a size in shoes just so my toes don't feel cramped. I bought some Nordicas in Mondo 26.5. They appeared to fit the toes touching criteria in the shop. Unfortunately they have a Last ( not sure where this term comes from) of 100 mm; my toes were miserable. I though it was because the boot were too short, but as you say, they were too narrow. I've tried on boots like the Head Edge series and Atomics with Live Fit that go up to 104-106 mm but they seem too loose in the ankle.

 

I'm not sure if it equates to "high volume" but I think I have a high instep. The high instep with skinny ankles seems to make it hard to lock the heel in without cramping the instep. In most boots I can feel my ankle bones punching through the lining onto the shell. Finally my lower leg is thin but I have large calves from martial arts. I've tried liners, foot beds, pads and had them punched. 

 

My solution, which has worked surprisingly well, was to get an extra size boot, high volume foot bed and thick socks. I know I'm breaking all the rules here but at least this lets me ski all day in relative comfort. I know I'm giving up some control, but fitting options are so limited. To be honest, I'm not sure how much I'm loosing out on at my level of skiing, but I'm sure the right fitting boots would help.

 

I also have a wide forfoot, skinny ankle, and high instep.  I have pretty normal calves.  I like the high volume footbed for you.  Is it custom or off the shelf?  Also have you tried an after market liner, like a foam injected or hear molded like an Intuition?  I like my Fischer Vacuum 130 with an Intuition Powerwrap and a very good footbed made by SkiinginJackson.  This will be my third iteration of this boot setup, and I think it will be close to perfect on the first fitting.  Before the Fischers I used a Nordica Speedmachine 130 with an Intuition and high quality footbed for three years and loved that setup.

 

Good Luck with getting it worked out, it really helps.

post #392 of 401

There is a boot fitter in NH who some how collects data on most, many, some?  of the ski boots on the market.  If you work with him on boot fitting, he can take measurements of  several parameters of your feet and then recommend  a list of boots which may work for your feet.    I did that with him maybe three years ago to find my new boots at that time.    I was a Lange guy for most of my life but lately, either because of changes in my feet or changes by the manufacturer,  Langes  don't seem to fit any more.   YM

post #393 of 401
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by yogaman View Post
 

There is a boot fitter in NH who some how collects data on most, many, some?  of the ski boots on the market.  If you work with him on boot fitting, he can take measurements of  several parameters of your feet and then recommend  a list of boots which may work for your feet.    I did that with him maybe three years ago to find my new boots at that time.    I was a Lange guy for most of my life but lately, either because of changes in my feet or changes by the manufacturer,  Langes  don't seem to fit any more.   YM

I highly recommend this guy. 

 

Paul Richelson

http://www.myfeetfirst.com

post #394 of 401

I'm a few months late to the party on this post, kind of like my skiing, but my opinion on the original question is a resounding "NO."  Perhaps the question is relative to where one calls home and does their skiing.  Had I read this post a week and a half ago, my answer might have been different.  When I stumbled across this thread, I was actually looking for any threads regarding "efficient vs. inefficient skiing."  Prior to logging on tonight, I Googled the phrase and came across this article:   http://psianw.mcmds.com/content.php?id=105

 

Then I thought I'd see if any of you people had anything to say on the topic.  I was very intrigued by all the various opinions within this thread, and thought it spoke directly to my dilemma, albeit of a slightly different nature, but still pertinent.  I'll see if I can make some sense out of what I'm talking about.

 

My home ski area in the Midwest sits at about 1100 to 1300 feet above sea level.  The vertical is a mere 700 or so feet.  A week and a half ago I was pretty satisfied with the way I skied based on what I like to ski and how fast I want to go.  Then I went to Utah, my first time skiing out west.  My skis did exactly what they were designed to do, which helped immensely.  However, the guys I went with are much better skiers than I am, and just about the entire mountain was their play ground.  We skied greens, blues, blacks, bumps and off piste terrain.  On day 1 at Snowbasin, I was able to hang with them until about 2 pm, although I lagged behind and they'd stop and wait for me about every half mile or so for 20-30 seconds until I caught up.  That evening, I soaked in the hot tub for a good half hour, popped 1000 mg's of Ibuprofen and later built a cocoon of ice bags around my legs.  Day 2 was Deer Valley, and I was only able to keep up with them until lunch time.  Day 3 was Brighton, and I skied by myself.  Day 4, Snowbird, had a bit more energy and made it until just before lunch with them.  The last day was Solitude, and I only made the first 3 runs with them, and spent the rest of the day by myself.  

 

I can't whine and blame the altitude, or the fact that my friends are 10 years younger than I am.  I saw plenty of people, both men and women, at least 10 years older than me, some, but no many, more out of shape than I am, that skied with the same fluid grace and efficiency as my 2 friends.  Ultimately, fatigue caused by an inefficient technique was my undoing.  After taking the weekend off for my body to recover, I was back on my home hill today.  I have never felt so relaxed after facing the steep angry mountains of Utah, but my technique is still inefficient.  I have a lesson scheduled for this Friday to start correcting this issue, and I'm really looking forward to it.  So yeah, the modern ski's are great and all, but at the end of the day, there is no substitute for proper instruction by a trained pro who can help you make the most out of what the modern skis can do.  IMHO.        

post #395 of 401
Quote:
Originally Posted by checksix68 View Post
 

I'm a few months late to the party on this post, kind of like my skiing, but my opinion on the original question is a resounding "NO."  Perhaps the question is relative to where one calls home and does their skiing.  Had I read this post a week and a half ago, my answer might have been different.  When I stumbled across this thread, I was actually looking for any threads regarding "efficient vs. inefficient skiing."  Prior to logging on tonight, I Googled the phrase and came across this article:   http://psianw.mcmds.com/content.php?id=105

 

Then I thought I'd see if any of you people had anything to say on the topic.  I was very intrigued by all the various opinions within this thread, and thought it spoke directly to my dilemma, albeit of a slightly different nature, but still pertinent.  I'll see if I can make some sense out of what I'm talking about.

 

My home ski area in the Midwest sits at about 1100 to 1300 feet above sea level.  The vertical is a mere 700 or so feet.  A week and a half ago I was pretty satisfied with the way I skied based on what I like to ski and how fast I want to go.  Then I went to Utah, my first time skiing out west.  My skis did exactly what they were designed to do, which helped immensely.  However, the guys I went with are much better skiers than I am, and just about the entire mountain was their play ground.  We skied greens, blues, blacks, bumps and off piste terrain.  On day 1 at Snowbasin, I was able to hang with them until about 2 pm, although I lagged behind and they'd stop and wait for me about every half mile or so for 20-30 seconds until I caught up.  That evening, I soaked in the hot tub for a good half hour, popped 1000 mg's of Ibuprofen and later built a cocoon of ice bags around my legs.  Day 2 was Deer Valley, and I was only able to keep up with them until lunch time.  Day 3 was Brighton, and I skied by myself.  Day 4, Snowbird, had a bit more energy and made it until just before lunch with them.  The last day was Solitude, and I only made the first 3 runs with them, and spent the rest of the day by myself.

 

I can't whine and blame the altitude, or the fact that my friends are 10 years younger than I am.  I saw plenty of people, both men and women, at least 10 years older than me, some, but no many, more out of shape than I am, that skied with the same fluid grace and efficiency as my 2 friends.  Ultimately, fatigue caused by an inefficient technique was my undoing.  After taking the weekend off for my body to recover, I was back on my home hill today.  I have never felt so relaxed after facing the steep angry mountains of Utah, but my technique is still inefficient.  I have a lesson scheduled for this Friday to start correcting this issue, and I'm really looking forward to it.  So yeah, the modern ski's are great and all, but at the end of the day, there is no substitute for proper instruction by a trained pro who can help you make the most out of what the modern skis can do.  IMHO.      

Welcome to good sense.

Speed hides technique deficiencies.

Efficient skiing is actual skiing because it is an efficient movement.  Letting go of any ideas you have of ski technique can help your instructor get you moving properly quicker.

post #396 of 401
Quote:
Originally Posted by checksix68 View Post
 

I'm a few months late to the party on this post, kind of like my skiing, but my opinion on the original question is a resounding "NO."  Perhaps the question is relative to where one calls home and does their skiing.  Had I read this post a week and a half ago, my answer might have been different.  When I stumbled across this thread, I was actually looking for any threads regarding "efficient vs. inefficient skiing."  Prior to logging on tonight, I Googled the phrase and came across this article:   http://psianw.mcmds.com/content.php?id=105

 

Then I thought I'd see if any of you people had anything to say on the topic.  I was very intrigued by all the various opinions within this thread, and thought it spoke directly to my dilemma, albeit of a slightly different nature, but still pertinent.  I'll see if I can make some sense out of what I'm talking about.

 

My home ski area in the Midwest sits at about 1100 to 1300 feet above sea level.  The vertical is a mere 700 or so feet.  A week and a half ago I was pretty satisfied with the way I skied based on what I like to ski and how fast I want to go.  Then I went to Utah, my first time skiing out west.  My skis did exactly what they were designed to do, which helped immensely.  However, the guys I went with are much better skiers than I am, and just about the entire mountain was their play ground.  We skied greens, blues, blacks, bumps and off piste terrain.  On day 1 at Snowbasin, I was able to hang with them until about 2 pm, although I lagged behind and they'd stop and wait for me about every half mile or so for 20-30 seconds until I caught up.  That evening, I soaked in the hot tub for a good half hour, popped 1000 mg's of Ibuprofen and later built a cocoon of ice bags around my legs.  Day 2 was Deer Valley, and I was only able to keep up with them until lunch time.  Day 3 was Brighton, and I skied by myself.  Day 4, Snowbird, had a bit more energy and made it until just before lunch with them.  The last day was Solitude, and I only made the first 3 runs with them, and spent the rest of the day by myself.  

 

I can't whine and blame the altitude, or the fact that my friends are 10 years younger than I am.  I saw plenty of people, both men and women, at least 10 years older than me, some, but no many, more out of shape than I am, that skied with the same fluid grace and efficiency as my 2 friends.  Ultimately, fatigue caused by an inefficient technique was my undoing.  After taking the weekend off for my body to recover, I was back on my home hill today.  I have never felt so relaxed after facing the steep angry mountains of Utah, but my technique is still inefficient.  I have a lesson scheduled for this Friday to start correcting this issue, and I'm really looking forward to it.  So yeah, the modern ski's are great and all, but at the end of the day, there is no substitute for proper instruction by a trained pro who can help you make the most out of what the modern skis can do.  IMHO.        


Just curious, when you were tiring yourself out, were you trying to ski faster, or trying to ski slower (control) your speed?

post #397 of 401
Thread Starter 

@checksix68, that post you just made is so useful to others reading this thread.  Congrats on making such a thorough reality check!

post #398 of 401
Quote:
Originally Posted by checksix68 View Post
 

 That evening, I soaked in the hot tub for a good half hour, popped 1000 mg's of Ibuprofen and later built a cocoon of ice bags around my legs.  Day 2 was Deer Valley, and I was only able to keep up with them until lunch time.   

Great post, I'd just like to point out that there are better ways to recuperate. See e.g.

 

post #399 of 401

For Ghost.  I was trying to ski much faster than I'm comfortable with.  30-35 is about the limit of what I'm comfortable with, which to me is plenty fast.  Beyond that, my form starts to fall apart and my brain can't process all the things I need to be doing quickly enough, and fatigue starts to set in from all the things I'm doing wrong.  My friends can ski comfortably at twice those speeds on uncrowded groomed runs, and go through rhythm changes, adjust speed and turn shape, but most importantly, be able to stop amazingly quick.  I knew I was having some balance issues prior to going on my trip, but foolishly thought I could work them out on my own.  Also, while we were at Snowbird skiing Bassakwards, the photographers were out taking action shots.  I finally got to see what I looked like.  I was already gassed.  The one shot was pretty funny.  I was tilting my head to the side towards my outside ski, but believing I was creating angulation with my upper body.  Later that same day, I was coming down a green run, I think it was called Emma, it was at a point where a catwalk brings you to a larger bowl area just above the terrain park.  The clouds had moved back in and visibility was no more than 25-30 feet.  I found a spot to take a rest contemplating how I was going to manage getting the rest of the way down without being able to see what was in front of me.  Luckily for me, a group of advanced skiers, presumably taking lessons, came along and stopped long enough to talk about how they were going to attack the hill.  They were talking about short turns.  It finally dawned on me that I know how to do short turns.  Mine aren't as dynamic as theirs were, and I could only see the first 2 or 3 turns before they disappeared from sight.  Their showing up is was what saved my bacon in that instance.  The point to all of this is, I finally realize there is a lot of garbage and bad habits in my skiing.  Having an understanding of what to do if far different than being able to execute efficient body mechanics while skiing.  Tomorrow, I intend to follow the advice of leaving behind my current ideas of technique, and leave my pride with my vehicle and just let them break me down and start to build me back up.  I had a great time in Utah regardless of my skiing.  The most valuable lesson I learned, is that I need more lessons.  So, thanks for the comments, advice and the video on recuperating.  I really appreciate it.

post #400 of 401

There is a new type of ski going out on the market that is making use of segway technology. The skis are connected by a multi-jointed chassis that allows the skis to tip in unison, and a vertical lever/handle just like on a segway to steer by tipping it side to side. The gyrator keeps the entire unit from tipping over. There are slots for your feet where your feet would be on skis but no need for boots and mechanical attachment. If and when you fall off, the weight sensor engages the braking system as does the video camera obstacle sensors and excessive speed when necessary.  Because weight is not a concern, there are added features such as heated and high frequency vibrating metal edges that carve across ice like butter. There is a drink holder, mp3 compatible stereo and a GPS program to auto-navigate your way down the mountain should that be your preference. There is also an optional helmet with visor display and voice activation controls for those who rather verbally negotiate their way down the mountain. For those who prefer to sit, there is a seating attachment option that maintains the unit’s configuration compatibility with any standard chair lift. The helmet visor also has a “blackout” mode and there are helmet attached earphones for noise cancellation when a nap may be needed while keeping up with your friends. The visors display mode comes preloaded with many ski flicks to be enjoyed while gracefully making your way down the mountain. They are being marketed to ski schools throughout North America as of this summer. There is a training program for ski instructors to learn how to instruct the first time user. The curriculum is simply limited to use of the on and off buttons. One button is green and the other is red. The training will cover the details as to which color is for start and which color is for stop. Finally … a ski for everybody!

post #401 of 401
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich666 View Post
 

There is a new type of ski going out on the market that is making use of segway technology. The skis are connected by a multi-jointed chassis that allows the skis to tip in unison, and a vertical lever/handle just like on a segway to steer by tipping it side to side. The gyrator keeps the entire unit from tipping over. There are slots for your feet where your feet would be on skis but no need for boots and mechanical attachment. If and when you fall off, the weight sensor engages the braking system as does the video camera obstacle sensors and excessive speed when necessary.  Because weight is not a concern, there are added features such as heated and high frequency vibrating metal edges that carve across ice like butter. There is a drink holder, mp3 compatible stereo and a GPS program to auto-navigate your way down the mountain should that be your preference. There is also an optional helmet with visor display and voice activation controls for those who rather verbally negotiate their way down the mountain. For those who prefer to sit, there is a seating attachment option that maintains the unit’s configuration compatibility with any standard chair lift. The helmet visor also has a “blackout” mode and there are helmet attached earphones for noise cancellation when a nap may be needed while keeping up with your friends. The visors display mode comes preloaded with many ski flicks to be enjoyed while gracefully making your way down the mountain. They are being marketed to ski schools throughout North America as of this summer. There is a training program for ski instructors to learn how to instruct the first time user. The curriculum is simply limited to use of the on and off buttons. One button is green and the other is red. The training will cover the details as to which color is for start and which color is for stop. Finally … a ski for everybody!


April 1 is still a little way off ;) 

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