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Does skis get old?

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 

Lets say a ski has been used for a combined of 6 month of skiing.

The ski doesnt have any scratches, and there is still some edge left.

Would there then be any difference from this ski now, and when it was bought? 

Does skis get "old and tired"?

 

So rephrased. Is there any reason not to buy some slightly/much used skis, as long as they dont have any scratches and still have some edge left?

post #2 of 22
"Combined six month". Does this mean two three month "seasons"? Or 180 days? Huge difference.

"Some edge". Is that almost all the edge because it's only been tuned a few times? Or I still see a metal glint in spite of too many stone grinds or too many trips through a shop tuning machine?

Skis can definitely get old and tired even beyond the info you've given us. Who had them? Little old lady? Park rat? Big mountain cliff jumper? Bump fan? All that impacts the wear which you should care about. Which is the stuff inside the ski. A recent posting has someone saying the ski was beat after 50 days. I didn't notice a performance drop off on mine until this past season (a decrease in torsional rigidity) when the skis had seen around 180 days of use. (Yeah, I track that stuff.)

General rule of thumb, subject to a ton of variables, is 100 days of use.
post #3 of 22

I like to sell my skies at 70 days on them, I ski a full day fairly aggressively. and really enjoy a fresh ski. wood core skis with metal let much longer than foam core skis with no metal.It really depend on so many thing how long a ski feels fresh but my rule is 70 days 

post #4 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirius View Post
 

Lets say a ski has been used for a combined of 6 month of skiing.

The ski doesnt have any scratches, and there is still some edge left.

Would there then be any difference from this ski now, and when it was bought? 

Does skis get "old and tired"?

 

Yes.  

 

- Skis lose longitudinal camber.    This is a very obvious phenomenon and one can often tell without even skiing the ski that this has happened.    

 

The counterargument is that there is a large number of people who consider skis without camber still perfectly skiable. 

 

- Skis lose edge bite.     This has nothing to do with how much edge is left or how sharp the edge is.    There might be *plenty* of edge,as in more than 2 mm showing,  and it can be sharp as all get out but the ski simply will not hold or will hold in a patchy pattern (it might wash out in the tips or wash out at the waist).    IME skis with big plates tend to go loosey goosey at the waist, relatively flat skis tend to go loosey goosey at the tips, esp. if they have lots of sidecut.     This phenomenon is not obvious at all and you cannot tell without skiing the ski.     This phenomenon has absolutely nothing to do with the construction of the ski: cap skis do it, sandwich skis do it, wood core skis do it, foam core skis do it. 

 

The counterargument is that, if this had actually happened to the extent it *could* happen on a given used ski, no one would be able to ski used skis, ever. 

post #5 of 22

I usually get somewhere between 60 to 80 days out of a pair of hard snow skis before they loose that loving feeling. Really difficult to tell while you are on them. Kinda like marriages. But I know it once ski the identical new pair back to back with the old ones. Skis for soft snow have longer relationships with me. They do not appear to be as high strung as their hard snow counter parts.  

 

BTW, my wife always call my ranting BS - just an other excuse to get a new pair of skis. Changed her tune after skiing a new pair of her current skis. YMMV    

post #6 of 22

Simple. There are two types of skis. Rock skis and skis that have yet to be mounted. As soon as skis are mounted, it is time to think about replacing them. 

post #7 of 22
What cantunamunch said. They become soft and flappy and can't hold an edge anymore, especially evident on hardpack. 180 days that is a lot. 20 weekends not a lot - it depends also how heavy and aggressive you are.
post #8 of 22

I don't find soft and floppy as much as a dead. One day they don't seem to have much energy anymore. And definitely won't hold an edge as well. I'm a finesse skier for sure, but I noticed my BMX's have reached that stage. Have about a century on them. Maybe the floppy thing will show up just before they fracture in half on a bump. 

post #9 of 22

The most I've ever had that I know for sure was 120 days on a pair of Dynastar BIGs.     I gave them away to a complete stranger who had shown up at Mt. Hood with nothing but skinny skis, mostly 'coz I was scared of the number of days I had on 'em and didn't want to pay Delta to ship 'em.

 

 

post #10 of 22

My red Mantras stopped holding an edge after about 40-50 days--maybe too many moguls. My Apache recons have well over 100 days and are still going strong--bought them for hasn't-snowed-in-a-week days and they're still fine. Plenty of hard tight bumps under those as well. 

post #11 of 22
Those 180 (actually up to 194 now) day skis that I noticed were losing it are Recons. Just to help you with your planning...
post #12 of 22

Interesting, I have certainly had skis "break down" and become less fun. Dull edges are real signs of aging. Physically, the camber has become flattened. Adding some carbon to increase camber helped in an experiment. 

 

But an analysis of waterskis showed that the skis actually stiffened over time. Makes sense as plastics do stiffen as they age. Yet the skis were "stale" and soft feeling. Perception as opposed to reality? 

 

Urethane cores in my waterskis broke down, PVC cores did not. Wood warped over time. Carbon held up well until overloaded - then they broke whether old or new.

 

My carbon Goode snow skis have help up very well over several years of abuse in the bumps. At least none of the skis I've demoed have felt better...

 

Eric

post #13 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirius View Post
 

Lets say a ski has been used for a combined of 6 month of skiing.

The ski doesnt have any scratches, and there is still some edge left.

Would there then be any difference from this ski now, and when it was bought?

Does skis get "old and tired"?

 

So rephrased. Is there any reason not to buy some slightly/much used skis, as long as they dont have any scratches and still have some edge left?

 

Yes, skis get old and tired.  I take good care of mine so they generally look great, but the materials inside them eventually break down.  Once a ski is no longer fun to ski, then it's time to replace it.  The number of days a ski will last varies based on the materials used to build the ski and the use of the ski.

 

Consider a couple of pairs of skis that I have...

 

* One pair, I have about 100 days of teaching skiing on them plus about 30 days of my own skiing.  130 days total.  Teaching skiing to beginners and intermediates at low speeds on groomed terrain does little to wear down skis.  Consequently, these skis are still going strong and I can probably get another 30 to 40 days of quality use out of them.

 

* Another pair has about 50 days of my own skiing on them.  They're shot.  They're still very stiff length wise, but for some crazy reason they're lacking tensional rigidity (can't hold an edge), which makes them absolutely dreadful to ski.  Given they failed as "rock skis" last season, this pair won't see snow again.

post #14 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post

I don't find soft and floppy as much as a dead. One day they don't seem to have much energy anymore. And definitely won't hold an edge as well. I'm a finesse skier for sure, but I noticed my BMX's have reached that stage. Have about a century on them. Maybe the floppy thing will show up just before they fracture in half on a bump. 
I have a pair of old GS skis skied by a big strong kid a lot - they floppy now, they are so soft that the tips are just flapping around
post #15 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by razie View Post


I have a pair of old GS skis skied by a big strong kid a lot - they floppy now, they are so soft that the tips are just flapping around

I have also a pair of old gs skis. Laser Stöckli gs 190 cm worldcup from like 2002. They are blue.

 

 They are soft in both it's longitudinal direction as well as torsional. Under the foot, there is a huge stiff and hard stinflex vist raceplate made by metall and rubber.

 

These skis have the best edge grip I have ever tried. (And I have tried a ton os skis). Even though the edges are not super sharp.

 

How do they ski? You have to go real fast and push them like crazy to get any power from them. I have other 25 radius meter gs skis to, but this one needs speed more speed then the rest.

 

Conclusion: My input on the subject is that soft skis doesn't necesery have bad gripp on ice. 

 

I also think that with a torsional soft ski, you will experience the radius as being bigger. Especilly when going on to a turn. Why? Becouse the skis will have twist some before it will transfer the powers somehow... 

 

What lack though is energy. Acceleration out of the cornet. This is something that can be both good and bad, depending on what you want out of a ski. If I were to race a fis gs course, these skis might not be too bad for me,  becouse I think they would be easyer to controll and they would not pick up a lot of speed. At the same time, they are verry stable, good edgehold and they are calm.

 

 

 

Feel free to give me your opinoin on what I have experienced.

post #16 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by thion View Post
 

I have also a pair of old gs skis. Laser Stöckli gs 190 cm worldcup from like 2002. They are blue.

 

 They are soft in both it's longitudinal direction as well as torsional. Under the foot, there is a huge stiff and hard stinflex vist raceplate made by metall and rubber.

 

These skis have the best edge grip I have ever tried. (And I have tried a ton os skis). Even though the edges are not super sharp.

 

How do they ski? You have to go real fast and push them like crazy to get any power from them. I have other 25 radius meter gs skis to, but this one needs speed more speed then the rest.

 

Conclusion: My input on the subject is that soft skis doesn't necesery have bad gripp on ice. 

 

I also think that with a torsional soft ski, you will experience the radius as being bigger. Especilly when going on to a turn. Why? Becouse the skis will have twist some before it will transfer the powers somehow... 

 

What lack though is energy. Acceleration out of the cornet. This is something that can be both good and bad, depending on what you want out of a ski. If I were to race a fis gs course, these skis might not be too bad for me,  becouse I think they would be easyer to controll and they would not pick up a lot of speed. At the same time, they are verry stable, good edgehold and they are calm.

 

 

 

Feel free to give me your opinoin on what I have experienced.

i guess things are relative, especially feelings...

 

theoretically, a torsionally soft ski requires bigger angles, as it flexes and it reduces the effective angle at the edge.

 

a soft ski lengthwise will dig the tips less in the snow for the same pressure in the middle... these things I have are small, like a 18m / 170cm or something like that - not sure if the size makes a big difference... also, they do not dampen the vibrations anymore and that also reduces grip - like a SUV compared to a sports car...

 

cheers

post #17 of 22

Some materials work harden, some become brittle with age, some lose strength.  It all depends on the materials used.  And since skis are made from different materials and processes not to mention how they are used (and abused) it becomes very difficult to determine the predicted life for a ski.  For one person it could be 30 days of skiing or less, for others 100 days on the same ski.

 

When a ski stops performing as desired, it is at the end of the life cycle for that skier, but maybe not for another.

 

So yes they get old, question really be comes when do you put them out to pasture.

post #18 of 22

For what it's worth, most people believe that a solid wood acoustic guitar changes due to both age and playing time. For a guitar, the aging is considered desirable ("loosening up").

post #19 of 22

When I first got my current pair of daily drivers (Dynastar Course Ti) they had so much edge grip that it felt I was locked into carving 15 meter radius arcs and nothing else.  It took real effort to skid them and I was afraid to take them into the trees.

 

Now that I've gotten about 80 days on them I can slide them at will, so I think some of the torsional stiffness has been lost.  They still carve very well, but the edges don't seem to be "locked in" like they were when they were new.

post #20 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt View Post
 

When I first got my current pair of daily drivers (Dynastar Course Ti) they had so much edge grip that it felt I was locked into carving 15 meter radius arcs and nothing else.  It took real effort to skid them and I was afraid to take them into the trees.

 

Now that I've gotten about 80 days on them I can slide them at will, so I think some of the torsional stiffness has been lost.  They still carve very well, but the edges don't seem to be "locked in" like they were when they were new.

Or alternatively, have you finally developed the strength to ski them? ;)

post #21 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschoolskier View Post
 

Or alternatively, have you finally developed the strength to ski them? ;)

 

I've only had them for about a year (I started using them at the beginning of 2013-14 season) so I don't think that's it.

 

I  don't feel a bit stronger than I was a year ago.

post #22 of 22
It could be your tune(or lack of it) too.
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