or Connect
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › One Ski for Racing AND Free Skiing? [Tahoe, teen girl]
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

One Ski for Racing AND Free Skiing? [Tahoe, teen girl]

post #1 of 50
Thread Starter 

My 15 year old daughter recently decided that she wanted to ski on the high school ski team.  She has outgrown her old skis.

 

I can't afford to buy her two new pairs of skis, so I was wondering if you might be able to recommend some skis that would work for racing as well as serve as her only pair of skis for every day skiing. 

 

She's a strong skier and very athletic.  She skis in Tahoe.

 

Is this a good idea?

 

Was thinking of a Rossignol Temptation 88 but I would appreciate advice/suggestions. 

post #2 of 50

Is your daughter racing to have fun or is she racing because she wants to win?  Will she be racing slalom or GS?  How "serious" is the team / league that she'll be racing in?

 

A couple random thoughts:

  • Ski racing is usually a wake-up call where most people realize they are nowhere nearly as good at carving turns as they thought they were.  If this is your daughter's first season in gates, I'm not sure it would matter much as you have to learn about race technique, line choice, etc.
  • That said, taking a ski that doesn't at least approximately match the turn-radius of the course is never going to be fast.  i.e., taking a short-turn radius all-mountain ski through a GS course, or a big-turning all-mountain ski through a slalom course will be s-l-o-w.
  • Skis that aren't really, really sharp are useless in race conditions.  Having skis that are dedicated for racing is easier to keep sharp.
  • You can usually find cheap race skis as the race kids are unloading their old skis for cheap.  There can be a question as to how much life is left in them (they got sharpened a lot!), but they can be found cheap.
post #3 of 50
Thread Starter 

My daughter is mostly racing to have fun.  She has raced/done gates before, but it's been 5-6 years.  She will probably be doing both slalom and GS.  The league is at a lower level, so more of a "fun" league.

 

That being said, she is very athletic and competitive and will no doubt want to win :) 

post #4 of 50


what Kevin said.  Even in a fun league unfortunately, slalom really requires a proper slalom ski.  Otherwise it just becomes a miserable attempt to steer round the gates.  Not fun at all.  For GS in a fun league you can get away with a bit more flexibility in terms of ski.  However, I would not suggest that you try to use a slalom ski for everything!    Think about what ski you want to get her for all-round and GS and look around for a cheap older 155 slalom ski for slalom.  The good news is that the 155s are usually easier to find and less expensive

post #5 of 50

^^^ This, high school racing will be competitive enough that you don't want to set her up to fail in front of friends, even if it's "for fun." You can find nice condition used racing skis with enough life left in the edges for a season or two, very reasonable prices. I'd go for used SL and a new last season's cheater GS that can also be used as for free skiing. Something with a waist no wider than 72 mm, say. 

post #6 of 50

If you have to get her one pair and one pair only, definitely go for a slightly longer SL. I would think HS SL is more open so they will work. But, like the others had said, SL will be slow through a GS course and she can't crank them. Just keep that in mind.

Also, unless she is a really strong skier and the rec skis are high end (good edges and good stiffness), rec skis will not work for racing. She will pick up a lot of bad habits while brute forcing every turn.

post #7 of 50

no such ski as you seek exist sorry. get a used racing ski and a used all mountain one.

post #8 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by chanwmr View Post

If you have to get her one pair and one pair only, definitely go for a slightly longer SL. I would think HS SL is more open so they will work. But, like the others had said, SL will be slow through a GS course and she can't crank them. Just keep that in mind.


Also, unless she is a really strong skier and the rec skis are high end (good edges and good stiffness), rec skis will not work for racing. She will pick up a lot of bad habits while brute forcing every turn.

Sorry. Not a good idea. The worst ofall world sin some respects as it still doesn't really work in slalom gates. A high school course may beless technical but not more open. There is still a max distance setting for a slalom course
post #9 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcross View Post
 

That being said, she is very athletic and competitive and will no doubt want to win :) 

Then why would you want to send her to a gun fight with a knife?

 

My experience with kids and especially with girls in this sport, they are only kids once and we want to keep them enjoying and LOVING the sport as much as we do so why would you want to NOT give her the best advantage or chance to do this just to save a few bucks over the cost of a ski? There are good used race ski options. It is a shame you missed some of the early swaps like Start Haus's..you would have been able to score some skis there for her. @ScotsSkier, you don't have any 155SL's laying around? I do have some new 155 Atomic SL's that I could throw some used 412 Neox's on that I could do the skis/bindings for $550.00, you will need to play for the mount & tune. This is better than she would get for her "race price" new 155s & new binders. 

 

IF and IF you have to go with one pair, but it will end up costing you more, the Head SuperJoy is a nice hard snow ski that will come short enough for her and hold well in the race course and not embarrass her but also will be a pretty good free ski at 75mm underfoot. She will be too big and strong for a junior ski and the Temptation 88 will be too wide and stiff to race on. 

post #10 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post

Then why would you want to send her to a gun fight with a knife?

My experience with kids and especially with girls in this sport, they are only kids once and we want to keep them enjoying and LOVING the sport as much as we do so why would you want to NOT give her the best advantage or chance to do this just to save a few bucks over the cost of a ski? There are good used race ski options. It is a shame you missed some of the early swaps like Start Haus's..you would have been able to score some skis there for her. @ScotsSkier
, you don't have any 155SL's laying around? I do have some new 155 Atomic SL's that I could throw some used 412 Neox's on that I could do the skis/bindings for $550.00, you will need to play for the mount & tune. This is better than she would get for her "race price" new 155s & new binders. 

IF and IF you have to go with one pair, but it will end up costing you more, the Head SuperJoy is a nice hard snow ski that will come short enough for her and hold well in the race course and not embarrass her but also will be a pretty good free ski at 75mm underfoot. She will be too big and strong for a junior ski and the Temptation 88 will be too wide and stiff to race on. 

Good advice Phil.

Mcross, I don't have any 155 slaloms available at the moment. I do have a very good 2014 fischer 157 slalom with fischer bindings I could do for $320. Will check on155s as well if you are interested, some of the kids were trying to get me to move some of their gear. What you haven't given us is height/ weight for your daughter
post #11 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotsSkier View Post


Sorry. Not a good idea. The worst ofall world sin some respects as it still doesn't really work in slalom gates. A high school course may beless technical but not more open. There is still a max distance setting for a slalom course


I am aware of the rules for course setting and that no matter how the course is set SL is a technical event. And, I definitely agree that having event specific skis is the best solution. But with that said, what is your suggestion for one and only one pair then? Please note that not everyone has the budget nor the desire to keep multiple pairs of skis (and having their kids to manage which one to use and carry). Are you sure have a slightly longer SL is the "worst of all world" scenario?

post #12 of 50
Thread Starter 

Thanks everyone for the advice. This is what I need.

 

OK.  So it sounds like I definitely need a race ski.  I'll do that.  Do I need two sets of skis?

 

My daughter's decision to join the ski team was a last minute thing.  Up until now, she has been year round volleyball player.

 

As a father of three teenagers, I can only do so much.

 

She's 15.  5'4" weighs 123 lbs.  Has done some racing, and was the strongest skier on her team, but it's been a few years.

 

We don't live in Tahoe, so my access to ski swaps is somewhat limited.

post #13 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcross View Post
 

Thanks everyone for the advice. This is what I need.

 

OK.  So it sounds like I definitely need a race ski.  I'll do that.  Do I need two sets of skis?

 

My daughter's decision to join the ski team was a last minute thing.  Up until now, she has been year round volleyball player.

 

As a father of three teenagers, I can only do so much.

 

She's 15.  5'4" weighs 123 lbs.  Has done some racing, and was the strongest skier on her team, but it's been a few years.

 

We don't live in Tahoe, so my access to ski swaps is somewhat limited.

Need two sets to race on? No, not the first year...lets see if you keeps with it. But a race ski and a rec ski, yeah.  If you want the 155's I mentioned, let me know because I will have to make some phone calls. But if she is going to be racing on a HS team she WILL need a race caliber ski to be remotely competitive. 

post #14 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotsSkier View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post

Then why would you want to send her to a gun fight with a knife?

My experience with kids and especially with girls in this sport, they are only kids once and we want to keep them enjoying and LOVING the sport as much as we do so why would you want to NOT give her the best advantage or chance to do this just to save a few bucks over the cost of a ski? There are good used race ski options. It is a shame you missed some of the early swaps like Start Haus's..you would have been able to score some skis there for her. @ScotsSkier
, you don't have any 155SL's laying around? I do have some new 155 Atomic SL's that I could throw some used 412 Neox's on that I could do the skis/bindings for $550.00, you will need to play for the mount & tune. This is better than she would get for her "race price" new 155s & new binders. 

IF and IF you have to go with one pair, but it will end up costing you more, the Head SuperJoy is a nice hard snow ski that will come short enough for her and hold well in the race course and not embarrass her but also will be a pretty good free ski at 75mm underfoot. She will be too big and strong for a junior ski and the Temptation 88 will be too wide and stiff to race on. 

Good advice Phil.

Mcross, I don't have any 155 slaloms available at the moment. I do have a very good 2014 fischer 157 slalom with fischer bindings I could do for $320. Will check on155s as well if you are interested, some of the kids were trying to get me to move some of their gear. What you haven't given us is height/ weight for your daughter

The 157 is a big girl slalom ski, for either low FIS point racers or girls over 140lb..even small men. Even not knowing her weight (as we do now) when you posted this, it was too much ski. 

post #15 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
 

The 157 is a big girl slalom ski, for either low FIS point racers or girls over 140lb..even small men. Even not knowing her weight (as we do now) when you posted this, it was too much ski. 


yup, 157 too much at that size Phil.  A 155 would be the business..

post #16 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by chanwmr View Post
 


I am aware of the rules for course setting and that no matter how the course is set SL is a technical event. And, I definitely agree that having event specific skis is the best solution. But with that said, what is your suggestion for one and only one pair then? Please note that not everyone has the budget nor the desire to keep multiple pairs of skis (and having their kids to manage which one to use and carry). Are you sure have a slightly longer SL is the "worst of all world" scenario?

couple of things.  A slightly longer slalom ski would be a 170.  There are a very few at this length, all of which are "detuned" or civilian slalom type skis.  Radius IIRC around 13.5-14.0 Thus longer and bigger radius than a 155 stock slalom @ ~11.5 and quite a bit more of a handful in a slam course.  In a GS course, even a HS set,  at this radius you you run the risk of getting very hooky (not a good thing!) at any sort of speed.  So in reality you have significantly compromised performance in both disciplines.  Only my opinion of course......:) 

 

​in this situation if she is serious about wanting to perform well and the OP can somehow swing 2 used sets, i would go for a slalom ski and a decent rec ski that will get her through a HS GS course

post #17 of 50

Sorry Dad.  There is really only one answer to your question.  She needs 2 pairs - 1 SL and 1 GS.  She also "needs" a race helmet, chin bar, shin pads, hand guards, race gloves and a padded suit.  IF she wants to be safe and compete.  The equipment is a pretty big deal and she will quickly realize she is "the kid with the carvers."  She also needs to learn how to tune. Sharp and well waxed skis are a complete must.

 

There is no real "daily driver" race ski.  Better hit craigslist or ask the coach / team for retired skis.  The SWAPS are the best bet.  Remember, skis can go BACK into the swap next year.

 

Sorry man.  But dont feel like you have to drop 3k on skis.  Couple hundred bucks a pair at a swap will get you nice stuff.  Suit maybe another $100 or less.  Dont be cheap on a helmet.  Got one head.  Also you will need to bedazzle the helmet so it is pretty.      

 

Break out the checkbook, Pop.  Princess needs the proper stuff.

post #18 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotsSkier View Post
 

slightly longer slalom ski would be a 170.

Not trying to argue and I do agree with pretty everything you said, but how did you come up with 170 from 155 with being slightly longer?
 

post #19 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by pat View Post
 

Break out the checkbook, Pop.  Princess needs the proper stuff.

News flash: Princesses do not run the world except in Disney movies.

 

Nice you can guilt trip a guy trying to be fiscally responsible, without much bothering to even read his post carefully. For those of you in the industry, retired or otherwise, the rest of us can have other financial demands on us besides getting new gear at near wholesale constantly. You know, like food, shelter, educational costs, medical care, clothing other than for skiing. None of these could possibly be as central to existence as skiing, of course, but state agencies get irritated when our kids start acting like they're homeless.

 

He should be applauded for being concerned about taking care of three teens, not just one, and realizing that she's doing this as a lark, not to become an alternative to the U.S. Team. 

 

OP: Go on fleabay. You will find decent condition used SL's in 155 for well under $300.  She doesn't need this year's models, she doesn't need pristine, she just needs some WC sticks to be on with her friends. If she gets into it, you can worry about new skis, in two flavors, next season or the one after that. You're in charge, not her, and no, she's not so socially fragile at this moment that you'll damage her psychologically for life if she doesn't get the coolest gear. 

 

You might if you cater to her at the expense of the rest of the family, however. 

post #20 of 50
At 15, she can be working to help pay for her hobbies. Mine started working as a junior camp counselor when she was thirteen. Sure she didn't contribute much, but when she had skin in the game, she thought about some of these expenses more. Hell, I made her learn to use a spreadsheet when she was six for her Christmas list, adding up the dollars and prioritizing. That's probably why she's so fiscally responsible today. Doesn't mean we didn't drop a bunch of money on racing, but she at least understood what was being given up.
post #21 of 50

Nice you can guilt trip a guy trying to be fiscally responsible, without much bothering to even read his post carefully.

 

Uh, this being my....10th year working with teens as a race coach, it is not as much about guilt as safety and performance.  If you read MY post carefully you would see that I told Dad he should have no problem getting TWO pairs of RACE skis for under $500.  Make sure to ask the other kids and parents on the team.  

 

Should he skip the pads and helmet (and bar - teeth shmeeth) too?  That will save a few bucks.  Perhaps she can play volleyball in her loafers?  I mean, how many pairs of SHOES does she REALLY need? 

 

She might not be damaged psychologically, but racing and training in equipment not designed for it is not safe never mind not "cool." 

 

PS.  If you have not been married or had a daughter, then I can understand how you might THINK princesses do not rule the world.  ;)

 

Finally if this is just a lark (realistically her racing "carreer" is only 2 more years), remember that skis can go BACK into the swap and you will recoup most of your investment.  Consider it a rental.  

 

Have a great season!  Go fast.  Take Chances (but not on equipment) 

post #22 of 50
You can find all the stuff listed here for really cheap if you look carefully...
Depending on how good/serious she is about racing some items are necessary or not.
Base things are race helmet, GS skis, good boots.
Everything else is only necessary if she is racing at a level high enough.
So look at the program she is joining, what are other kids using? That will give you an idea of what is needed.
Then look online local shops thrift stores and buy used.
post #23 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by pat View Post
 

Nice you can guilt trip a guy trying to be fiscally responsible, without much bothering to even read his post carefully.

 

Uh, this being my....10th year working with teens as a race coach, it is not as much about guilt as safety and performance.  If you read MY post carefully you would see that I told Dad he should have no problem getting TWO pairs of RACE skis for under $500.  Make sure to ask the other kids and parents on the team.  Here's the relevant quote, my italics: "She needs 2 pairs - 1 SL and 1 GS.  She also "needs" a race helmet, chin bar, shin pads, hand guards, race gloves and a padded suit.  IF she wants to be safe and compete.  The equipment is a pretty big deal and she will quickly realize she is "the kid with the carvers."  You're putting it in terms of absolute necessity - being safe and competing - and you're guilting the guy by suggesting she'll quickly be shamed for skiing on anything except real WC skis.

 

Should he skip the pads and helmet (and bar - teeth shmeeth) too?  That will save a few bucks. Actually, the "few bucks" are more like $300+, even with used equipment and skipping the pads unless required because her first year she won't get close enough to a gate to hit it with her shins or arms. Perhaps she can play volleyball in her loafers?  I mean, how many pairs of SHOES does she REALLY need? 

 

She might not be damaged psychologically, but racing and training in equipment not designed for it is not safe never mind not "cool." Again, he's asking about skis, which are not about safety, you're bringing up other stuff that is. 

 

PS.  If you have not been married or had a daughter, then I can understand how you might THINK princesses do not rule the world.  ;) I'm married, have two sons who are in racing programs, and I race Masters. My friends with girls would disagree they are or should be catered to. Nor, in some cases, could they even if they wanted to. 

 

Finally if this is just a lark (realistically her racing "carreer" is only 2 more years), remember that skis can go BACK into the swap and you will recoup most of your investment.  Consider it a rental. The thread is about buying new or used skis. His odds of getting skis at a swap are slim and getting slimmer by the day, and not all swaps are that great anyway. Where I ski, people expect ridiculous prices. So he'll take a sizable hit if he pays market price for a new or good used ski, then sells it for peanuts at a swap or is stuck with it because no one wants to pay fair price. This is what economists call "sunk costs." You can't move forward assuming you can recover your costs, or that what you invested has anything to do with future additional investments or costs. Eg, NOT in for a penny, in for a pound.

 

Have a great season!  Go fast.  Take Chances (but not on equipment) I know this is a gear forum, but are you answering another OP, on another thread? You've just made a case that since he's NOT to take chances on equipment, this guy realistically should dump upwards of $1000 (not <$500), on a sport his daughter is suddenly intrigued by, conveniently ignoring his statement about having to think about his other kids, or folks like Phil who are not sure they can find him a single pair of SL's for $550.  In what alternative universe does that make sense? :rotflmao:

post #24 of 50

Oky doke.  What do you suggest?  

 

You are a racer and a race dad.  She is a 16 and athletic.  How do you suggest she navigate a HS SL course without hitting gates?  Also, it only takes one shot to the knuckle (or kneecap) or whap in the mouth to undo a month of confidence building.  Back to square one and hopefully she is not actually injured or $5k of dental work gets bent.

 

Not exactly sure what I did to put the burr under your saddle or where my advice is so deviant or insulting.  Buy for peanuts at a swap.  Sell for peanuts at a swap.  That is more or less the formula. 

 

I really have no dog in this fight, but I guess it comes down to what would I put my OWN children and athletes on to maximize their development, performance, confidence, fun, and safety.  

 

Maybe I will see you at Ragged or Loon.  Two fun easy Masters events.  If you live in MA, check out the MASS Sr games (40+) at Wachusett in March.  Fun race.  3 runs.  2 short GS and a short "Super G" drag race. I don't think you have to be MA resident.  Good luck to your sons this season.

post #25 of 50
I've raced SL without shin guards and hand guards. Not pleasant but you can survive Toughen up...
Plus chances she actually needs them are low... And there's always cardboard ask some of the former USST guys
post #26 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by chanwmr View Post
 

Not trying to argue and I do agree with pretty everything you said, but how did you come up with 170 from 155 with being slightly longer?
 


Very good point!.  Basically if you are looking at race stock slalom skis you have  155, 157/158 and 165 (with the odd 160 there).  The 165 is designed for a heavier male racer, at 123# she is not even going to bend it.  The 157/158 is also,  as Phil mentioned earlier, designed primarily for pretty competitive women (and is used by most of the women at WC level) and is a lot more ski than the 155   

 

So, not a lot of options there, short of going to the civilian "slalom oriented" skis.  Yes these are available in 160 and 165 as well but you usually find they are even smaller radius than the race stock versions, typically 11-12m which would work in a slalom course.  But I would not be too keen to put any relatively  inexperienced athlete down a GS course on an 11-12m ski.  Too big a chance of injury IMHO.  I assumed that by slightly longer you were referring to something like one of the Fischer SC type or similar in 170.  Again, purely my opinion, with both my racing and coaching hat on.      When new racers come along I am a strong believer in trying to make sure they actually have fun and will stick around (Team Falcons Rule #1: Have fun!)  :) 

 

Anyway, it is all good!

post #27 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post
 
Originally Posted by pat View Post
 

Nice you can guilt trip a guy trying to be fiscally responsible, without much bothering to even read his post carefully.

 

Uh, this being my....10th year working with teens as a race coach, it is not as much about guilt as safety and performance.  If you read MY post carefully you would see that I told Dad he should have no problem getting TWO pairs of RACE skis for under $500.  Make sure to ask the other kids and parents on the team.  Here's the relevant quote, my italics: "She needs 2 pairs - 1 SL and 1 GS.  She also "needs" a race helmet, chin bar, shin pads, hand guards, race gloves and a padded suit.  IF she wants to be safe and compete.  The equipment is a pretty big deal and she will quickly realize she is "the kid with the carvers."  You're putting it in terms of absolute necessity - being safe and competing - and you're guilting the guy by suggesting she'll quickly be shamed for skiing on anything except real WC skis.

 

Should he skip the pads and helmet (and bar - teeth shmeeth) too?  That will save a few bucks. Actually, the "few bucks" are more like $300+, even with used equipment and skipping the pads unless required because her first year she won't get close enough to a gate to hit it with her shins or arms. Perhaps she can play volleyball in her loafers?  I mean, how many pairs of SHOES does she REALLY need? 

 

She might not be damaged psychologically, but racing and training in equipment not designed for it is not safe never mind not "cool." Again, he's asking about skis, which are not about safety, you're bringing up other stuff that is. 

 

PS.  If you have not been married or had a daughter, then I can understand how you might THINK princesses do not rule the world.  ;) I'm married, have two sons who are in racing programs, and I race Masters. My friends with girls would disagree they are or should be catered to. Nor, in some cases, could they even if they wanted to. 

 

Finally if this is just a lark (realistically her racing "carreer" is only 2 more years), remember that skis can go BACK into the swap and you will recoup most of your investment.  Consider it a rental. The thread is about buying new or used skis. His odds of getting skis at a swap are slim and getting slimmer by the day, and not all swaps are that great anyway. Where I ski, people expect ridiculous prices. So he'll take a sizable hit if he pays market price for a new or good used ski, then sells it for peanuts at a swap or is stuck with it because no one wants to pay fair price. This is what economists call "sunk costs." You can't move forward assuming you can recover your costs, or that what you invested has anything to do with future additional investments or costs. Eg, NOT in for a penny, in for a pound.

 

Have a great season!  Go fast.  Take Chances (but not on equipment) I know this is a gear forum, but are you answering another OP, on another thread? You've just made a case that since he's NOT to take chances on equipment, this guy realistically should dump upwards of $1000 (not <$500), on a sport his daughter is suddenly intrigued by, conveniently ignoring his statement about having to think about his other kids, or folks like Phil who are not sure they can find him a single pair of SL's for $550.  In what alternative universe does that make sense? :rotflmao:

 
OK guys, good points on both sides.  And the financial impact has got to be a huge consideration for someone in the OPs position with 3 teenagers.  (Good job I am child free!).  However it is possible to put together a budget  quiver that will not break the bank while she tries it and see if she is going to stick with it.    Scotsskier is scouring the closet :)
post #28 of 50
Yeah speaking from current experience, it's all the ancillary gear. Racing suits cost half the national debt n r outgrown in a nanosecond. No one in their right mind skimps on helmets. This is a silly way to build a sport's foundation; if the average income is $47,500, we can write off about 3/4 of all Americans as potential racers. How do the Austrians do it? They don't seem all rich. Public funds for gear n coaching?
post #29 of 50
I have someone 155 slaloms that my wife has barely used that I'm happy to let go for a little bit more than shipping & I also have a pair of very used 155's which I will send you for shipping. Either would be better than all Mountain ski.
post #30 of 50

huh.  cheap race skis.  weird. :rotflmao:

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Gear Discussion
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › One Ski for Racing AND Free Skiing? [Tahoe, teen girl]