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Rant: overselling wide skis - Page 61  

post #1801 of 1818
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecimmortal View Post
 

I was tempted to turn this in to a Karate Vs.(Insert relevant martial art) discussion.


Trust me, I thought about doing it too.  What MMA did was add an element of sanity/objectivity to the question of which MAs are more effective.  What skis are winning King of the Mountain?

post #1802 of 1818
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecimmortal View Post
 

I was tempted to turn this in to a Karate Vs.(Insert relevant martial art) discussion.

That's hilarious.  Yup - Jeet Kune Do, a la Bruce Lee > karate.  There's no argument.  Everyone knows this.  I don't know how anyone could argue otherwise unless they think that Cobra Kai from the Karate Kid is real martial arts (SMH).

post #1803 of 1818
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecimmortal View Post
 

I was tempted to turn this in to a Karate Vs.(Insert relevant martial art) discussion.

That's hilarious.  Yup - Jeet Kune Do, a la Bruce Lee > karate.  There's no argument.  Everyone knows this.  I don't know how anyone could argue otherwise unless they think that Cobra Kai from the Karate Kid is real martial arts (SMH).


You may be correct, but first you must study Wing Chun (like Bruce did) or the Jeet Kune Do won't work for you.  :duck:

post #1804 of 1818
Quote:
Originally Posted by spindrift View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
 

My 190 cm Machetes (~ 68 mm waist) cut through slush pretty well.  Wider skis tend to smear instead of turn.

 

A narrow sidecut/cambered ski in slush typically exhibits the same issues as a narrow sidecut/cambered ski in powder. With the added challenge of possibly becoming entrained if you hit the wrong texture transition. A few years back I spent an afternoon on rental Head Supershapes doing some summer glacier skiing in Norway. Conditions were mostly boot top granular slush. It was terrifying. The only people not struggling to release their skis were some local kids ripping around on Hellbents and similar. 

 

For my .02, if I know I'm going to be in total slush (or mostly), I'm pulling a 138 reverse/reverse ski (or close). It'll give me vastly more control over any turn type and any turn radius in slush than the ski you reference.

 

Again, perhaps you should actually try a modern wider ski - including in slush. 


Have you ever skied a mid twenties side cut radius Volant ski through slush?  I don't think so. 

post #1805 of 1818
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
 


You may be correct, but first you must study Wing Chun (like Bruce did) or the Jeet Kune Do won't work for you.  :duck:


Ah, yes...always something to learn...that's the great thing about martial arts, skiing, marriage...

post #1806 of 1818
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
 


Have you ever skied a mid twenties side cut radius Volant ski through slush?  I don't think so. 


You are grasping at straws. Seriously. 

 

I do not recall if I skied anything narrow and mid twenties. I have skied somewhat wider skis with bigger radii though. I am not motivated to go look them all up... I believe you that a mid 20s "old school" ski will be likely less nasty in slush than a mid teens. Both suck compared to a modern ski. 

post #1807 of 1818
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino View Post
 

That's hilarious.  Yup - Jeet Kune Do, a la Bruce Lee > karate.  There's no argument.  Everyone knows this.  I don't know how anyone could argue otherwise unless they think that Cobra Kai from the Karate Kid is real martial arts (SMH).

Buddy, they are out there. If my last 3 years training in BJJ have taught me anything. It's that there are still a lot of people out there who think that their art is "too dangerous" to spar are still out there. 

post #1808 of 1818
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecimmortal View Post
 

Buddy, they are out there. If my last 3 years training in BJJ have taught me anything. It's that there are still a lot of people out there who think that their art is "too dangerous" to spar are still out there. 


Seriously?  Tough to be really good at martial arts without some humility and real confidence (as opposed to cockiness or bravado).  I don't know jack about marital arts. But, I used to watch a close childhood friend spar with Dennis Alexio (certified badass) when we were in college.  see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Alexio#Career

post #1809 of 1818
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino View Post
 


Seriously?  Tough to be really good at martial arts without some humility and real confidence (as opposed to cockiness or bravado).  I don't know jack about marital arts. But, I used to watch a close childhood friend spar with Dennis Alexio (certified badass) when we were in college.  see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Alexio#Career

Well. Good strikers for the most part know they are not necessarily good grapplers, and good grapplers know they may not be good strikers.  I think both agree that MMA is overall the best. And lets be honest. UFC 1 pretty much answered the question about style vs. style. Though a good wrestler is always a scary beast. But the world is still full of chi master's who's paycheck would take a serious hit if their acolytes realized they were being fed a load of turds.

The first thing you learn in BJJ is leave your ego at the door, it has no place on the mat, and will just get you hurt.

 

How's that for some thread drift?

post #1810 of 1818
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
 

My 190 cm Machetes (~ 68 mm waist) cut through slush pretty well.  Wider skis tend to smear instead of turn.

I resemble that remark :D

 

For years I strove to carve perfect rails, any drift was failure.

 

Now I love to smear, greasing off a nice super G turn is more pleasant in variable conditions than attempting to rail the same faster.  I still enjoy a sweet edge locked carve but only when appropriate.  I'll sideslip before traverse pretty much everywhere.

post #1811 of 1818
Smear instead of carve. Say it ain't so.
post #1812 of 1818
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecimmortal View Post
 

How's that for some thread drift?

 

Well, that's some fantastic drifting. This fighting video is like a parable that reflects how some on the board feel about useless moves on wide skis:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g45KtHN37bo

 

Getting back to skiing, here's Jonny Moseley teaching people on West Face at Squaw about how to ski over moguls on 95-100mm skis:  http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=jonny+mosely+mogul+skiing&view=detail&&mid=44853DECE89550543EEB44853DECE89550543EEB&rvsmid=71A0BC2418A438A0789871A0BC2418A438A07898&fsscr=0

 

I don't see too much carving there, but there are a few videos out there where he teaches people this technique. Pretty cool...


Edited by Dino - 1/5/16 at 2:01pm
post #1813 of 1818
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecimmortal View Post
 

How's that for some thread drift?

 

Well, that's some fantastic drifting. This fighting video is like a parable that reflects how some on the board feel about useless moves on wide skis:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g45KtHN37bo

 

Getting back to skiing, here's Jonny Moseley teaching people on West Face at Squaw about how to ski over moguls on 95-100mm skis:  http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=jonny+mosely+mogul+skiing&view=detail&&mid=44853DECE89550543EEB44853DECE89550543EEB&rvsmid=71A0BC2418A438A0789871A0BC2418A438A07898&fsscr=0

 

I don't see too much carving there, but there are a few videos out there where he teaches people this technique. Pretty cool...


I like the first video...

Just shut up and fight.

post #1814 of 1818
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecimmortal View Post
 

Well. Good strikers for the most part know they are not necessarily good grapplers, and good grapplers know they may not be good strikers.  I think both agree that MMA is overall the best. And lets be honest. UFC 1 pretty much answered the question about style vs. style. Though a good wrestler is always a scary beast. But the world is still full of chi master's who's paycheck would take a serious hit if their acolytes realized they were being fed a load of turds.

The first thing you learn in BJJ is leave your ego at the door, it has no place on the mat, and will just get you hurt.

 

How's that for some thread drift?


UFC 1 was a good but not great illustration, since the Gracies were arguably Vale Tudo fighters already.  The other UFC 1 fighters were one-dimensional and lackluster.  Grapplers definitely surprised the stand-up fighters overall.  The point about a good wrestler is correct -- remember when Kerr went to Brazil in early 97?  BJJ guys were like, what is that?

 

<insert wide-ski versus narrow-ski analogy here>

post #1815 of 1818
post #1816 of 1818
I would have replied sooner, but I was busy with RL.  It may surprise you to hear me say this, but I actually liked a key aspect of your last reply to me (below), which is that you've finally come out from behind the sarcasm and are saying what you really think. 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronism View Post
 

 

So its the "I didn't call your mother a dirty donkey scrote, I asked how you would feel if I called your mother a dirty donkey scrote" approach? 

There's a big difference between asking someone "How would you feel if someone called you an X?" and telling someone "You're an X."  Most can see that, you can't.  [And just to be precise, I never said "how would you feel if I wrote....", I said "how would you feel if someone .... wrote..."; if you're going to reference me, reference what I actually said, not your made-up version of it.]

 

Dude, are you 11? You're projecting.

 

Given that you like to talk about "misdirection," how about we get back to the actual discussion? You went all ad-hominem after myself and several others laughed at your for this post. I (and others) got snarky with your post because:  ....

 

Um, you do realize that your initial sarcastic attack on me was ad hominem, no?  Look, let's just speak plainly about what happened. During a perfectly civil discussion with another poster, I expressed an idea about skiing that you and some others really didn't like.  I get that.  But that's the nature of participating here — you're going to hear ideas you don't care for.  Further, this idea was not uncivil -- indeed, even though the poster and I are on opposite sides of this issue, he had no problem with my expressing it. Yet you and your internet buds (the ones you mention here) felt so threatened by this idea that, rather than challenging it on the merits, you decided to attempt to bully me with sarcastic taunts (as you freely admit here).  Unfortunately for you this backfired, since you couldn't handle even my relatively mild push-back (bullies always hate it when their intended target swings back).  Why can't you just man-up and accept the fact that, when you decide to take a swing at someone, as you did to me here, sometimes they're going to swing back — and that they, not you, get to decide the nature of their response?  Or are you so disconnected from reality that you think you should be able to attack people as you please and be immune to any push-back? 

 

1. Your evidence of how awesome you can rip a 62 waist ski in deep snow is a picture of you getting dick deep into it, which means it either A) isn't deep or B) isn't powder (you confirmed B). I'm sure it was fun to ski, looks fun and all, but skiing dense set up snow on a skinny ski is totally different than tackling deep steeps with several feet of cold smoke. It would be the same thing as someone posting a picture of railing a 140 waist ski in spring corn and saying it was hardpack.

 

IMO, you've got this wrong on several different levels.  To start, powder comes in a range of different densities, and the view that only cold smoke counts as powder is terribly parochial.  More importantly, the fact that this powder is heavy makes it a more compelling example, not less:  First, as anyone with significant experience skiing all types of powder knows, light powder (like the beautiful stuff at Alta, which averages 6% water content, or even the 9% you average at Wolf) (source of numbers: http://bestsnow.net) is the easiest kind to ski -- it's the heavier stuff that provides the real challenge, and thus the one for which you'd most typically want a wider ski. That's why it surprised me that this ski worked so well.  Second, this heavier type of powder is far more representative of what most resort skiers encounter than cold smoke.  Indeed, it's the characteristic type of powder seen in Europe (the world's largest skiers' market, and where this pic was taken) as well as the west coast of the US (where I currently ski), SW Canada, and likely other ski regions as well.  Finally, as I clearly stated earlier, there's a third reason I'm not sinking deeper, which I didn't state explicitly because I didn't want to give you children more ammunition to throw spitballs (and because it should be obvious to anyone that has skied powder) — I'm carrying enough speed to stay up higher in it.

 

The irony is that, if you had been there personally, you also would have been raving about how deep it was -- everyone at the resort (this was at Val d'Isere/Tignes) who was skiing this stuff was saying the same thing, including our off-piste guides and the other locals.  Of course, people like you act differently on the internet than in RL.

 

2. Nobody else in this almost 60 page thread (that I have seen) is advocating for a 62 waist ski in powder, so it seems rather incongruous if it isn't about something other than the advantages/disadvantages of different skis (see 4).

3. 99% of everyone in this thread agrees a 62 waist ski is an inappropriate tool for deep snow. I think you do too, which means the post really isn't about that, but instead is...

 4. A post obviously angled for you to get internet skier points. Asking people to post pictures to "Help us better understand where your perspective on technique is coming from" sounds EXACTLY like the thinly veiled attempt to start dick-swinging over who the best internet skier is- seemingly validated when your post in response was calling me out instead of defending anything having to do with any discussion in this thread- or your post, or my comment indicating your picture didn't at all show what you contended it did.....
I'm not going to get into the dick swinging argument. As I see it, either the post quoted above is a really clumsy attempt to be internet badass "Look how I kill it on 62mm skis!," or a pretty indefensible argument ....

This is just your own insecurity taking — the same insecurity that caused you to try to bully me in the first place (all bullying comes from insecurity) — and really has nothing to do with me.

 

And  let me get this straight -- you are complaining that I didn't reply to your sarcastic attack with a substantive defense of my argument, and instead went after you for the attack itself?? Seriously? Haven't you ever heard of personal responsibility -- you know, you choose the action, you choose the consequences?  I would have been happy to discuss it on the merits, and if that's what you really wanted you could have chosen to do so, but instead you initiated a personal attack.

 

 

....as to the value of taking a 62 mm ski into actual deep conditions. If you want to comment on the latter, I'm all ears.

I would be happy to explain the history and idea behind that picture.  But I'm not going to waste my time unless I get a promise from you first -- that the discussion will be civil -- and I mean perfectly civil -- indeed, even friendly -- and reasonable as well.  That means, to start, that you abandon your insistence that 40" of typical European powder (which is exactly what I was skiing) counts neither as powder nor as deep snow.  Can you do that?


Edited by chemist - 2/8/16 at 8:30am
post #1817 of 1818
Quote:
Originally Posted by slider View Post

Smear instead of carve. Say it ain't so.

The modern version of improved skill is "lower your standards".

 

It's still fun though,  and that is what really matters.

 

Friends don't let friends SMEAR

post #1818 of 1818
This thread has run it's course. After a now deleted spat above the mod team has decided to lock the thread at this point. 
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