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# Question On Wheel And Tire Size for Winter Driving On A Front Wheel Drive Car - Page 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost

And then you might wonder how long that 60% tread depth will last: X-ice at least 60,000 km; that's the warranty. The WS80? No treadwear waranty.

You've got the percentages upside down.  It's 40% tread left on the Blizzak before it is into the regular rubber and using 50% as the break point to transition any tire from snow tire to non-snow tire because overall tread is key to winter driving especially in this case of a front wheel drive vehicle.

As for calculating wear rates, pretty easy to figure out by seeing how much of your driving it took to use up the current percentage of tire.

Is English your first language?  "60% tread depth will last" means until there is 40% Left.  Yes it is pretty easy to tell how long your tires last; If you drive 15,000 km every winter and your tires last five winters that's 65 000 km, but you should know that the first 50% wears off a lot faster than the last 50%.  You should also realize by now that it's not just the tread; it's the rubber compound.  I know how these tires perform on a front wheel drive car because I've driven through 5 Northern Ontario winters with them on a front wheel drive car.  I've also driven 5 or 6 winters on a rear wheel drive car with the old Latitude X-ice.  As I said, only flaw is hydroplaning in slush or heavy rain when it gets down to about 3/32nds of an inch tread depth.  Drove through snow storms, plowing with the bumper past other cars that were stuck, no problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost

Is English your first language?  "60% tread depth will last" means until there is 40% Left.

Exactly.  So the Blizzak and Xice both will have the same rubber compound until 40% but one should retire a snow tire at 50% if one is using it heavily in the snow as losing 50% tread will greatly degrade the snow tire's capability and in front wheel drive car being used to go the the ski mountains frequently it would not be reliable.

Yes, if you are going to throw your snow tires away or use them as summer tires (not a good idea in mho) when they are half-way through the tread you might as well buy the Blizzaks, except that the Blizzaks will wear through that first half of the tread a lot faster than the Michelins will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost

Yes, if you are going to throw your snow tires away or use them as summer tires (not a good idea in mho) when they are half-way through the tread you might as well buy the Blizzaks, except that the Blizzaks will wear through that first half of the tread a lot faster than the Michelins will.

Any snow tire at 50% tread is not going to be good as a snow tire especially for this example of a front wheel drive vehicle.

Not throwing them away, using them as regular tire once their past their prime as snow tires.  In which case, the Blizzak would be better since it has the harder rubber at 40% wear vs. the Xice but these are great tires so both would work well that way.

Key is having a plus 50% tread snow tire when going skiing.

Unless you simply drive as basic transportation and tires are nothing more than rim protectors, I would never "run out" my winter's the next warm season. Once the temps come up and the roads are ice free I can't wait to get back on some proper warm weather hi-performance rubber! Even when near the snow wear bars these things suck compared to the above mentioned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossi Smash

Unless you simply drive as basic transportation and tires are nothing more than rim protectors, I would never "run out" my winter's the next warm season. Once the temps come up and the roads are ice free I can't wait to get back on some proper warm weather hi-performance rubber!

High performance as in how far over the speed limit?  How many race starts from stop lights?  How many real quick lane changes to gain 100 feet on morning commute?  Idea of "performance" in cars is to impress the other people in traffic.  "High performance" is more selling the cars image than any frequently used or useful feature.

As for tires, Michelin Xices make great year round non-snow tires after they lose their snow tire value at 50% tread wear. Very little mileage loss from stock harder rubber tires and great in the fall and spring rains before and after ski season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagles Pdx

High performance as in how far over the speed limit?  How many race starts from stop lights?  How many real quick lane changes to gain 100 feet on morning commute?  Idea of "performance" in cars is to impress the other people in traffic.  "High performance" is more selling the cars image than any frequently used or useful feature.

As for tires, Michelin Xices make great year round non-snow tires after they lose their snow tire value at 50% tread wear. Very little mileage loss from stock harder rubber tires and great in the fall and spring rains before and after ski season.

"great year round tires"?

You go with that, I'll pass, thanks

What is this "traffic" you speak of? Sounds like you live somewhere just awful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossi Smash

What is this "traffic" you speak of? Sounds like you live somewhere just awful.

What is this "performance" you speak of? Sounds like you live somewhere imaginary.

It is amusing to listen to the "performance car" ads and their listing of reasons for getting the car as ability to do high speed merges on freeways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagles Pdx

What is this "performance" you speak of? Sounds like you live somewhere imaginary.

It is amusing to listen to the "performance car" ads and their listing of reasons for getting the car as ability to do high speed merges on freeways.

Dude, you drive a Prius..just sayin...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott43

Dude, you drive a Prius..just sayin...

Exactly...one of the highest tech, highest performance cars available short of a Tesla.

High performance driving:  playing deer slalom when a heard of deer decide to cross the highway right in front of you late at night or in the wee hours of the moning on your cross-country trip;  avoiding a charging moose;  dodging that box that fell off the truck in front of you, dodging the on-coming car that suddenly swerved into your lane with a closing speed of 120 mph (both you and he at the speed limit), when the car in front of him stopped, and maybe saving your bacon when you accidentally enter a wet corner too fast (not that that should ever happen). Never mind illegally playing on empty roads.

You can stick to your hard compound snow tires for your summer high performance driving.  I'll stick with the Michelin Pilots.

I will agree with you that the old compound snow tires were not so good at the 1/2 way mark.  The new compound tires do seem to be able to get down to about 3/4 worn before it becomes an issue at any snow level where the road isn't closed.  If I had the money, I would replace my snow tires at 3/4 worn, but I would not drive on them in the summer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost

High performance driving:  playing deer slalom when a heard of deer decide to cross the highway right in front of you late at night or in the wee hours of the moning on your cross-country trip;

Just stop. The deer are faster than you.  It's the one you don't see that hits you.  Shows how the "performance" line is such a reach.  Next example will be dodging herd of eight year olds at the school "loading dock".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagles Pdx

Exactly...one of the highest tech, highest performance cars available short of a Tesla.

Yes, the power to weight ratio is phenomenal...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagles Pdx

The deer are faster than you.

Well they might be faster than a Prius..however..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott43

Well they might be faster than a Prius..however..

And way faster than your reaction time as deer cross your path at 35 mph with your limited night vision.  If you see one deer, safe to assume more than one. Slow down is the smart and safe bet vs. speeding up thinking you are going to slalom around them.  Funniest part of course is the extreme "reasoning" to get a "performance" car, to dodge deer at night on high speed run.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott43

Yes, the power to weight ratio is phenomenal...

But the issue was performance and high tech not power/weight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagles Pdx

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost

High performance driving:  playing deer slalom when a heard of deer decide to cross the highway right in front of you late at night or in the wee hours of the moning on your cross-country trip;

Just stop. The deer are faster than you.  It's the one you don't see that hits you.  Shows how the "performance" line is such a reach.  Next example will be dodging herd of eight year olds at the school "loading dock".

There appears to be a difference between you and me.  You speak of that which you do not know, while I speak from experience.

I have done all of the "high performance" driving described in my above post.  My wife and children were in the car with me when I avoided the oncoming car by swerving onto the shoulder (straightening out on the gravel shoulder was the tricky part).  Had I had snow tires on the car we would have been a mess.  My wife was driving a Chevette when a moose charged the car, from the side of the road as we were driving by.  The car would have been totalled had she not swerved and floored the and pedal.  I dodged the heard of deer, making several swerves, each of which had they not been made would have meant a deer in my lap while driving to BC from Ontario, just past the Manitoba boarder at 3 in the morning.  I have also dodged several other deer, and the occasional idiot driver too.  These incidents do not happen often, but if you drive a lot, it only takes one to make the extra expense decent summer tires worth it.

If you want the ultimate deep snow traction, by all means change your tires when they are half-worn out, but, I strongly advise against using the remaining rim protectors, or any snow tire during the summer, when you could be using something with more wet and dry road grip.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagles Pdx

Just stop. The deer are faster than you.  It's the one you don't see that hits you.  Shows how the "performance" line is such a reach.  Next example will be dodging herd of eight year olds at the school "loading dock".

Of course the deer are faster than you when you drive a Prius.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschoolskier

Of course the deer are faster than you when you drive a Prius.

Because I've stopped when I spot a herd crossing in front of me at 35 mph of course some people buy "performance" cars to dodge between the deer drops but we know that's one of the more outlandish why-I-need-a-"performance"-car-mom claims.  Mostly its middle aged guys automotive version of the comb over.

If you are going to drive across the country on a highway with a 60 mph speed limit I suggest you consider driving a little faster than 35 mph, even at night.  Maybe that's too much to expect from a Prius driver though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost

If you are going to drive across the country on a highway with a 60 mph speed limit I suggest you consider driving a little faster than 35 mph, even at night.

It's the deer crossing in front of you going 35 mph and quite erratically...remember...that's why you bought that performance car to dodge high speed deer on high speed turns.  Most the cars ads that include deer usually are focusing on stopping distance which is excellent on the 50% tread Michelin Xice's I use for regular tires, the wider tread vs. normal helps that key performance metric.

Sometimes you can brake in time to let the deer pass.  Sometimes there is not time or space enough to stop you have to swerve to go behind the deer crossing your path.

If your only reaction is to hit the brakes, you are an accident waiting to happen.

I don't recommend just hitting the brakes when there is a car coming to hit you head on at 60 mph 20 feet in front of you.

And no, snow tires with their large void ratios do not have good stopping distances or cornering grip compared to high performance tires.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost

Sometimes you can brake in time to let the deer pass.

Sometime you eat the deer, sometime the deer eat you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagles Pdx

Because I've stopped when I spot a herd crossing in front of me at 35 mph of course some people buy "performance" cars to dodge between the deer drops but we know that's one of the more outlandish why-I-need-a-"performance"-car-mom claims.  Mostly its middle aged guys automotive version of the comb over.

So your the one blocking traffic on the highway that has higher posted limits.  Drive the limit and stop endangering your life along with all of the other drivers around you.

True be told, I'm more concerned about drivers like you as they don't care about anyone else on the road but themselves and their own opinions.   Animals, well they don't know better and our roads are in their environment.

Plus the moose get pretty big out here.  If one of these is charging your car, stopping won't be enough.  I would recommend swerving if you have the room.  I've seen bigger.

How fast can you drive in reverse? (Edit: skip to 1 minute  mark)

Edited by Ghost - 10/5/14 at 1:23pm
So this thread has managed to turn old myths about rim diameter into a moose thread. Well done!

Answer to OP: if rim diameter can make a perceived difference between making it and not making it during a winter storm, then rims are not the issue.
To paraphrase Carly Simon, perseveration is making me wait.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NayBreak

So this thread has managed to turn old myths about rim diameter into a moose thread. Well done!

Answer to OP: if rim diameter can make a perceived difference between making it and not making it during a winter storm, then rims are not the issue.

I don't think it is the rim diameter but the tire width that make a difference.  If you go down in diameter, you can go down in tire width more substantially.  Oddly enough, a 15 and 17 inch rim can each get you with a tire, 25" diameter where as a 16" rim gets you slightly less.  It's the aspect ratio you get with a smaller rim and not the diameter of the rim that make the difference in snow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by L&AirC

Quote:
Originally Posted by NayBreak

So this thread has managed to turn old myths about rim diameter into a moose thread. Well done!

Answer to OP: if rim diameter can make a perceived difference between making it and not making it during a winter storm, then rims are not the issue.

I don't think it is the rim diameter but the tire width that make a difference.  If you go down in diameter, you can go down in tire width more substantially.  Oddly enough, a 15 and 17 inch rim can each get you with a tire, 25" diameter where as a 16" rim gets you slightly less.  It's the aspect ratio you get with a smaller rim and not the diameter of the rim that make the difference in snow.

Right. Because a taller tire holds more air, you can go narrower with it.
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