or Connect
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Ski review jargon

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
Hi again,
While reading reviews, I see many skis are "Playful", others not so Playful, more "Stability". What does it mean for a ski to be Playful, and stable?
Thanks
post #2 of 15
I always think

Playful=lively=chattery=plenty of pop
Stable=forgiving=dead=track well

Depends on what you like in a ski which term you use. Of course, I don't write up ski reviews. This should be interesting for me, too.
post #3 of 15

My old super G skis are extremely stable, but they are not very forgiving, they become "playful" IIRC at about 70 mph.

 

A ski can be playful without being chattery: example, any top end Volkl.

 

Playful will push back when pushed, and if you know how to ski, this bending of the skis and letting them push you back when they unbend is fun.  They have to be able to bend to unbend, so there is a speed factor, related to your weight and how stiff the skis are and how much damping the ski has in there as well.  My old Volant Machete G skis (190 cm) for example are "dead" at slow speeds, but quite lively and playful (and strangely enough forgiving) at moderate speeds, but dangerously hyperactive at any speed approaching the speed where my SGs become playful.


Edited by Ghost - 9/30/14 at 7:09pm
post #4 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

I always think

Playful=lively=chattery=plenty of pop
Stable=forgiving=dead=track well

Depends on what you like in a ski which term you use. Of course, I don't write up ski reviews. This should be interesting for me, too.

Actually, I use the terms differently. Playful = forgiving, fun, easy to initiate and finish, softer flex, more likely to deviate at speed. Stable = damp, stiffer flex, not as easy to initiate and finish, less likely to deviate, less fun. For me, playful skis are often light and lively, but not always. Some very playful Heads and Nordicas out there that are fairly heavy. While some very light and lively DPS's or Fischers are anything but playful. 

 

I'm sure that after a few hundred posts on this thread, we'll reach a bare consensus about the time of day...;)

post #5 of 15

I think we should at least *try* to stay away from distinction dilution.   In other words, I strongly prefer terms like 'stable damp chattery lively playful forgiving' to stay independent of each other.    To do otherwise is to be like the amateur painter: 14 shades of muddy brown on his palette. 

 

    Therefore I will not even try to put an equals sign between terms.      The word 'apple' is not equivalent to the word 'fruit'.

 

Thus,  I find Fischer's racesumer line to be (extemely) playful and stable and damp at the same time; whereas old Volants were playful and damp. 

post #6 of 15

Agreed.

 

Actually, Playful doesn't inherently equal "fun".  Playful or damp has nothing to do with fun.  Playful or damp are the ski's physical characteristics.  Fun is how the skier interprets those characteristics.  Personally, I find damp skis at 60MPH plenty of fun.  Playful skis at 60MPH that I can overpower?  Not so fun.

post #7 of 15

^^^^ This.  We have to remember that, while ALL descriptors are somewhat subjective, there is a difference b/w a descriptor which is trying to represent objective reality and one which offers interpretation of reality.  "Blonde and blue eyes" = objective.  "Beautiful" = interpretation.

 

On another note, I am always looking for more info about personality/feel in a ski.  To me, that seems the great un-reported in mainstream reviews.  I can tell application pretty easily: width, sidecut radius, and rocker indications often tell the tale of where a ski fits.  But "feel"....ah, that very often gets under-reported.  Weight, dampness (especially), and "snap" are really what I am looking to tease out in my ski choices.

 

post #8 of 15
Just curious, but does everyone from Ontario always ski 60 and 70, or is everyone obsessed with doing 500 lap days?

(Before getting upset, yes, I'm from the upper Midwest. We had a couple spots we could hit 60-70... For about 25-20, maybe 30 seconds. And yes, I loved skiing DH skis there when I was a kid. smile.gif )
post #9 of 15

LOL, good question.  Maybe some of both?

 

We have limited vertical, limited resorts, and limited space.  Sometimes lift lines can be very long for what amounts to generally a 3 minute run.  No pucker factor here, unless you count REAL icy slopes (not that packed powder which Westerners call ice LOL)........so I guess we take our thrills however we can?

 

That said, my 60 speed reference was actually about my time in Lake Louise on my Rossi E98s (damp and stable!), not the 700' vert here on my 67mm icepicks heh.  Would NOT want to have a playful/lively ski at my weight, doing 60MPH on the Men's Downhill slope at Lake Louise.  That could be disastrous.

post #10 of 15
Playful... Easy to maneuver with little input... Forgiving... can be skied effectively with less than a perfect skill set. Fun.... Purely subjective based on desired outcome. All my skis are fun as regards their respective design brief. . smile.gif

Examples:

Nordica Soul Rider: Playful. Forgiving'ish. Not skittish, nor Mach stable. Very fun.

Blizzard 27m FIS GS: not playful, not forgiving, bombproof stable. Very fun.
Edited by markojp - 10/1/14 at 8:37am
post #11 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post
 

I think we should at least *try* to stay away from distinction dilution.   In other words, I strongly prefer terms like 'stable damp chattery lively playful forgiving' to stay independent of each other.    To do otherwise is to be like the amateur painter: 14 shades of muddy brown on his palette

 

    Therefore I will not even try to put an equals sign between terms.      The word 'apple' is not equivalent to the word 'fruit'.

 

Thus,  I find Fischer's racesumer line to be (extemely) playful and stable and damp at the same time; whereas old Volants were playful and damp. 

Tuna, are you a painter?

post #12 of 15

Only in the house and hobby (subspecies primitive)  senses of the word.   

post #13 of 15
Thanks to @markojp for something that helps me understand this playful thing.
post #14 of 15

Playful allows you to go from carve to slarve and back again to a carve easier. You are not as locked into a turn shape. Most skis that I have been on with a big, flat, stiff tail would not be described as playful.

post #15 of 15

Good point.  Strong, flat tails do not really make for playful skis.  They make for serious skis that need skills to drive them properly.  Kind of like a Miata vs a Viper.  Miata is forgiving, easier to handle for less-skilled drivers.  A Viper will leave a mess in your shorts if you're not skilled or careful, but man has it got serious muscle to GO FAST.  Definitely not a playful car though, unlike the Miata heh.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Member Gear Reviews