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One quiver ski for Big Sky, Jackson and Bridger - Page 2

post #31 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jed Peters View Post
 

In all honesty, I'm not that far off.


If he's a young ripper who laps the tram at BS or Jackson, or constantly is hiking, he's going to want something over 110. 

 

If he's a resort skier, who skis more groomers and all over the mountain...then you can go with something not as large waisted.


I don't know many people at big sky who lap Headwaters, the Tram, and Challenger that ski anything less than a 110. And that includes a 73 year old man.

 

We were talking about one ski for a whole season.  Most seasons I think that you would be better off with a ski just under 100 for a one ski quiver at JH.  I say this after skiing here for 25 seasons.  Of course I'm old and I suck and I don't care what some hatchling thinks about my skis or my skiing.  I will usually listen to them when they catch up at the bottom.  If you are spending most of your time hiking something over 110 "might" be better, but you give up a lot inbounds.  It can also be observed that there are a lot of people on skis over 110 who really don't ski very well.  It's about how much fun you are having, so if a fat ski makes you happy go for it.  I've learned that part of being a professional is not imposing my "free" advice on people who don't ask for it.  It amuses me to listen to people talk in the Tram line and then see them ski.

 

When we start talking about having several skis, then something over 110 definitely has it's place and will get used if you ski a lot of days.  I have several skis that are over 110 and bring them out on big days.  I can only keep three pairs of skis at the mountain and I hate carrying gear on the bus.  Last season I never skied anything wider than my 106mm  Soul7 except for a few times that I demoed.  I spend most of my time on the upper mountain teaching advanced students.  I ski a lot of days, I generally ski all day, and I try to always keep it moving.  I have never felt like I needed a ski that was much wider than 110mm and haven't really liked the feel of any ski wider than 120mm even in deep snow.

post #32 of 58

I'm in full agreement with tetonpwdrjunkie.  

 

I just think that people who go with 110+ as everyday skis give up a huge amount of performance, quickness, and versatility when they end up on "old" snow.  Old snow, to me, can be junk when it hasn't snowed for a few days, groomers, moguls, etc.  Again, for me only, skis above 100mm just aren't as much fun when the snow gets stale.

 

I think whole legions of people (season passholders in particular) must just not ski when it hasn't snowed for a few days.  I know that because I don't see them on our hill - even in the afternoon of new-snow days.  Is that because their 110+ skis aren't all that great when the powder gets tracked out?  

 

Personally, I love skiing basically any kind of condition.  But I absolutely DON'T love skiing hardpack moguls on 120mm skis.  

 

All this is a long way of saying that if I was planning to own one pair of skis for a winter in Big Sky, Jackson, and Bridger, it would be a pair 100mm or less.  

 

I'm affiliated with Rossignol, so this is biased, but I skied the brand new, 14/15 Rossi E100 last spring in a WIDE range of conditions.  From almost knee-deep blown-in dense powder at the top of the tram to rattle-your-teeth-out frozen groomer debris at the bottom and everything else in between.  I've never felt more comfortable on a pair of skis in every condition.

 

If I had to own one pair of skis, that would be it.

post #33 of 58

I love my FX94's as an every-dayer.  I'll ski a Praxis Protest just for the fun of it on big days but for most powder days last season I grabbed my Soul 7's. I found it did all I wanted it to and had plenty of float.  

 

TPJ and Bob's words are wisdom.

post #34 of 58

"It would be pretty interesting to know what Little Bear would say to all this, if she were being totally honest."

 

Totally honest - you asked for it. Here it comes.

The widest ski I own is 90 mm under foot. The K2 Rictor 90 in 170 cm. My still favorite is the old Outlaw with 88 mm under foot. I personally don't "need" a rockered ski.

I have tried some of the big sticks with rockered tip and tail - in deep snow - no problem. You are surfing the top of the snow. On groomers I can't stand the feel of the vibration in tip and tail.  On wind-pressed surface (which we have in Big Sky quite a bit, we call it "slide for life" conditions) they suck! I have watched too many folks in high speed side slips, with tips and tails flapping, coming down Lenin and Marx, scaring everybody around them to death!

 

You can say that I might just be getting too old to change. But, hey, why should I??? I LOVE to ski IN deep powder, not on top of it. So, my old Recon is my favorite ski for most of my teaching, I am usually in the Rictor 90 when I teach in crud or powder, and, YES, believe it or not, I am skiing an eight year old (or so) Outlaw on my days off when I can rip off the tram in my own speed.

If I would go on trips to Jackson or Targee, that would be the ski I would take.

 

Now was that honest enough? @sibhusky ? ; o) ; o) ; o)

post #35 of 58
Wow, I feel vindicated. Just bought the Rictor in an 82, have got the Recon and Outlaw being phased out, and use a 98, the Hell and Back, for my powder days. Because staying 100% on powder all day is just not possible. Every time I hit the groomers with them I can tell they require more work than the skinnier skis. If I were looking for a workout, I'd do Cross Fit. I'm looking to enjoy myself without thinking about the ski.
post #36 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Bear View Post
I LOVE to ski IN deep powder, not on top of it.

 

Oh no.  Not again.

post #37 of 58

@Little Bear -- I don't see many of the people I ski with on my annual BS trip on anything under 110...just saying. Even "Ace" (who I'm sure you know) skis a 111 Gotama...and he's an old fart.

 

My experience with Bridger, BS is that you can always find conditions where a 110 would suit you just fine.


As for in vs on the pow, and a rockered ski...


I ski a stockli, so my "rocker" is very small and it's PLANTED on groomers and chop.... :) And at 230 pounds, I'm never "on top" of the snow anyhow. :)

 

Of course my 95s are great for hanging on the groomers with the old folks too, but just about anything would be!

post #38 of 58

If you're wanting local input for Bridger you probably need to do an @RicB since he spends way more time skiing Bridger than Nolo or I. Anyway, my take is people forget about a few things when they look for a one ski quiver here. First, one thing I always want in a ski is one I know I can turn when I have to turn. You end up in a lot of tight places with varying snow conditions. Because of that I tend to stay away from stiff skis or skis with SG like turn radii. Second, I look for a ski that won't punish me skiing bumps in flat light. The soft snow here combined with lack of grooming is ideal for creating large bumps everywhere. You just can't ski Bridger or Big Sky without encountering them. If you take a stiff ski or a ski with exaggerated tips like the Rossi S7 into bumps in bad lighting you're going to get beat up and your skis are going to be knocked around. I look for a ski with a moderate flex & blunt tips. Lastly, you end up doing lots of traversing at Bridger. The traverses can get washboarded and slick. A true rocker ski can become very skiddish in the traverses. I am a fan of early-rise skis because of this.

 

Right now I think the sweet spot for an all-mountain ski here is now in the 105 to 110 range. So a early-rise ski with a moderate flex and decent turn radius in he 105-110 range is what I'd look for. Personally, I will be on the Nordica Vagabonds next year which fit those requirements.

post #39 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcald View Post
 

thank you guys so much for the help.
I went with flat camber under foot, camber on either side of the boot and rocker tip and tail (early rise)
Moment death wish 112 under foot 184 or 187  I don't remember.
 

Brings me to second question,

hiking back country, worth the $400 bindings and $200 skins?  not to mention all the gear, ie. beacon, probes and shovels

 

You guys are the best!

why did I not know about this before!!!?

and I skied a bunch of skis last year, depending on the day on the east coast

I worked in the demo shop and had access to 150 skis.

Moved west, don't have that option anymore

 

You should look for something used.  When you are in JH, Headwall Sports is a good consignmnet store and always has BC gear.  Climbingskinsdirect.com sells good quality skins at very good prices, well under $200.  There are a lot of great BC runs that don't require skins or touring bindings.  Hiking Glory on Teton Pass for instance.  Save some money for an Avy class or at least a book.  Staying Alive in Avalanche Terain by Bruce Trempor is one of may favorites.  You will learn enough to be a little scared and will gain some tools to evaluate potential BC partners with.  

 

If you find yourself in JH, you could peruse my ski collection.  I have several pairs that are still good which I never use anymore, some of which have skins.  I might also take you up Glory or hook you up with someone else who will.

post #40 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rio View Post
 

If you're wanting local input for Bridger you probably need to do an @RicB since he spends way more time skiing Bridger than Nolo or I. Anyway, my take is people forget about a few things when they look for a one ski quiver here. First, one thing I always want in a ski is one I know I can turn when I have to turn. You end up in a lot of tight places with varying snow conditions. Because of that I tend to stay away from stiff skis or skis with SG like turn radii. Second, I look for a ski that won't punish me skiing bumps in flat light. The soft snow here combined with lack of grooming is ideal for creating large bumps everywhere. You just can't ski Bridger or Big Sky without encountering them. If you take a stiff ski or a ski with exaggerated tips like the Rossi S7 into bumps in bad lighting you're going to get beat up and your skis are going to be knocked around. I look for a ski with a moderate flex & blunt tips. Lastly, you end up doing lots of traversing at Bridger. The traverses can get washboarded and slick. A true rocker ski can become very skiddish in the traverses. I am a fan of early-rise skis because of this.

 

Right now I think the sweet spot for an all-mountain ski here is now in the 105 to 110 range. So a early-rise ski with a moderate flex and decent turn radius in he 105-110 range is what I'd look for. Personally, I will be on the Nordica Vagabonds next year which fit those requirements.

 

A lot of great points here.   When you ski a big mountain like BS or JH, you ask a ski to do a lot of different things in a wide variety of conditions.  Bumps are a fact of life at JH also.  I never go out looking to ski bumps for their own sake, but I ski them everyday just getting around the mountain.  I ski tight and wide open and sometimes I ski when I can't see anything but white.  A good all around tool is usually not great at anything.  So when you look at all mountain type skis try to identify your biases and match them to the skis design.  I find that I ski more crud and windpack than anything else.  All skis are relatively easy in powder.  I pick for the funky variable days which are far more frequent than powder days. 

 

I am not a fan of rockered tails.  I do like early rise.  I initially liked my S7s, but now feel that they are too fat, too soft, and have no tail.  I did find them surprisingly good in bumps.  The tip is huge, but very soft and it absorbs a lot if you stuff it.  The 105-110 range is right on for a good all conditions all mountain ski.  My Soul7 falls into this class.  It's 106mm, stiff for its weight, and has a mostly flat tail.  It's definitely the answer to everything that I grew to dislike about the S7.  My problems with the Soul7 are that it really isn't that great on anything hard packed, it's a bit too light and not as damp or solid as I really like, and on some of the bigger days with wind slab and powder it could have been a little fatter.  I can ski it fast in long turns down the Hobacks, but it doesn't inspire confidence while doing it like a ski with metal.  Of course the trade of is that it's very light and quick and will make a great BC ski when I retire it.  I could use either of the two skis that I used last year as a one ski quiver, a normal year favors the E88 and a heavy year favors the Soul7.  The best all around solution is to have 2 pairs of skis 

post #41 of 58

At 140lbs, you don't need a super wide ski to get good float, and also have something you can use everyday.

 

You liked the Gotama, you'd probably really like the new Mantra for everyday skiing. 100 underfoot, same full rocker, and much better is variable conditions. You could look at the Bonafide as well, the E100, Kastle MX/BMX 98. I think anything in the 98-100mm class would be best for you, personally. Unless you want something very soft snow orientated, I wouldn't look much wider.

post #42 of 58
IMHO, bringing an 88mm waisted ski to the Tetons is kind of like bringing a knife to a gun fight...

http://youtu.be/4DzcOCyHDqc
post #43 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by tetonpwdrjunkie View Post

A lot of great points here.   When you ski a big mountain like BS or JH, you ask a ski to do a lot of different things in a wide variety of conditions.  Bumps are a fact of life at JH also.  I never go out looking to ski bumps for their own sake, but I ski them everyday just getting around the mountain.  I ski tight and wide open and sometimes I ski when I can't see anything but white.  A good all around tool is usually not great at anything.  So when you look at all mountain type skis try to identify your biases and match them to the skis design.  I find that I ski more crud and windpack than anything else.  All skis are relatively easy in powder.  I pick for the funky variable days which are far more frequent than powder days. 

I am not a fan of rockered tails.  I do like early rise.  I initially liked my S7s, but now feel that they are too fat, too soft, and have no tail.  I did find them surprisingly good in bumps.  The tip is huge, but very soft and it absorbs a lot if you stuff it.  The 105-110 range is right on for a good all conditions all mountain ski.  My Soul7 falls into this class.  It's 106mm, stiff for its weight, and has a mostly flat tail.  It's definitely the answer to everything that I grew to dislike about the S7.  My problems with the Soul7 are that it really isn't that great on anything hard packed, it's a bit too light and not as damp or solid as I really like, and on some of the bigger days with wind slab and powder it could have been a little fatter.  I can ski it fast in long turns down the Hobacks, but it doesn't inspire confidence while doing it like a ski with metal.  Of course the trade of is that it's very light and quick and will make a great BC ski when I retire it.  I could use either of the two skis that I used last year as a one ski quiver, a normal year favors the E88 and a heavy year favors the Soul7.  The best all around solution is to have 2 pairs of skis 

^^^good stuff here for the OP!
post #44 of 58

Haven't skied bridger or BS but keep in mind that a lot of the harder lines at JH are fairly tight trees, narrow rocky chutes, and/or bumps. Or maybe that's my perception because the two times I've been there was a snow drought the first time and very warm the second--which ruled out the Hobacks and other runs lower on the mountain.

post #45 of 58

Depending on your taste;

 

4FRNT Devastator

Volkl Mantra, or last years katana

This years or last, Blizzard Cochise

Line Supernatural 108

Blizzard Peacemaker

Dynastar Cham 107

post #46 of 58

I bought a pair of Cham 107 for my wife.  I really liked that ski when I demoed it.

post #47 of 58
"Totally honest - you asked for it. Here it comes.
The widest ski I own is 90 mm under foot. The K2 Rictor 90 in 170 cm. My still favorite is the old Outlaw with 88 mm under foot. I personally don't "need" a rockered ski."

For those of you new to this site Little Bear is probably the most asked for instructor at Big Ski , both for families and teaching you how to ski the Big Couloir. She can teach you to ski bumps on rockers or powder on carvers. Her equipment comments carry more weight than most - particularly mine.
post #48 of 58

Hard to figure why anyone bothers to ask for "what ski should I buy" advice on this forum.  You can pretty much guarantee that someone will recommend 130 under foot, someone will recommend 76, and someone will recommend staying with the ski they bought in 1976, regardless of the location, preferences, and ability of the skier. I think people pretty much have to figure out for themselves--demo, demo, demo --what category of ski they're looking for and ask for comparisons among a few models. There will still people who try to get you into something completely different but they can be ignored.

post #49 of 58

^^^^ Cuz that's why Epic exists. To offer enough contradictory advice to new posters that they will get hopelessly confused, go to a big box store, and have the college kid there tell them confidently exactly what they should do. Which they do, then are back here two years later, unhappy with their college kid's advice. So we uphold the U.S. economy in the face of global competition by keeping both those college kids and our webmaster and editors gainfully employed, away from sloth and crime.

 

Oh yeah, and occasionally, we offer more focused advice, typically involving blame or sarcasm, to each other. ;) 

post #50 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcald View Post
 


 

Brings me to second question,

hiking back country, worth the $400 bindings and $200 skins?  not to mention all the gear, ie. beacon, probes and shovels

 

 

 

I skied Montana for 10 years before I could afford my first pair of BC boots, skins and bindings. When I finally spent the money I discovered a love of skiing that doubled or tripled my previous love.

 

Most of the locals who have flexible schedules do the following--- Buy a pass at local ski area. Bridger, Snowbowl, Big Sky, Discovery, Maverick... doesn't matter.. Ski on area for one or two days after a powder dump..  then start hiking to endless powder stashes in the back-country... Repeat til it snows again... 

 

Don't forget the transiever, shovel, probe etc... But it's well worth it.  Powder is love.

post #51 of 58

i second @tsk94 and @SkiSafe - my SO has a new Volkl Mantra for his daily driver in the west, and he loves it. Its fully rockered, and fun, but not too wide, and definitely has that volkl edge bite.

post #52 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcald View Post
 

One quiver ski for Big Sky, Jackson and Bridger?

I'm 5'9 140 lbs and can ski anything in the east (forwards or backwards)

Never skied West and am a little nervous  I have a pair of skis that are 88 underfoot and pretty short.
 

I wont spend much time in the park (only thing to do in the East) and I want to look forward to hitting all parts of the mountain
had a few pow days ish in Maine and tried various skis in different conditions.

I liked the Gotama a lot,

The K2 shedditor on a powder day

the pursuits on a groomer day

 

Whats a good ski that will do powder and groomers pretty well (compromise I know)

 

Thanks for the help!

sincerely,
Western Noob

How much freestyle are you wanting to take out of the park and onto the rest of the mountain? Are you still wanting to find kickers and ski switch? If so, I'd stick with a twin-tip of some sort.

 

Assuming that's the case:

 

Shreditor 102 is a fine ski. Since you enjoyed the full rocker Gotamas but maybe wanted a bit more frontside versatility, the Volkl Bridge is worth a look. Nordica Soul Riders A+. Line SFB another killer ski. Just some freestyle oriented suggestions.

post #53 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveturner View Post

"Totally honest - you asked for it. Here it comes.
The widest ski I own is 90 mm under foot. The K2 Rictor 90 in 170 cm. My still favorite is the old Outlaw with 88 mm under foot. I personally don't "need" a rockered ski."

For those of you new to this site Little Bear is probably the most asked for instructor at Big Ski , both for families and teaching you how to ski the Big Couloir. She can teach you to ski bumps on rockers or powder on carvers. Her equipment comments carry more weight than most - particularly mine.

^^^^^^^THIS. Skiing with Little Bear should be on every skier's bucket list.
post #54 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rio View Post

If you're wanting local input for Bridger you probably need to do an @RicB since he spends way more time skiing Bridger than Nolo or I. Anyway, my take is people forget about a few things when they look for a one ski quiver here. First, one thing I always want in a ski is one I know I can turn when I have to turn. You end up in a lot of tight places with varying snow conditions. 

 

There you go.

post #55 of 58

I"ve been thinking lately that the Fischer Motive 95 might be the best one ski quiver I've ever been on.

post #56 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by tetonpwdrjunkie View Post
 

I"ve been thinking lately that the Fischer Motive 95 might be the best one ski quiver I've ever been on.

 

That's what you've been skiing with all of the snow in Jackson this season?

 

But anyway, yeah, Fischer's are kind of underrated in general in the US.

post #57 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayT View Post
 

 

That's what you've been skiing with all of the snow in Jackson this season?

 

But anyway, yeah, Fischer's are kind of underrated in general in the US.

 

I've skied almost everyday this season.  I have used the Motive 95 for most of them.  On the big days I've been using a Fischer Big Stix 110.  I could easily have skied the Motives instead.

post #58 of 58

I was the ski school janitor at Big Sky early on in Little Bears time at the area.  Saw her ski in many conditions and I gotta tell you as far as I could tell she could ski on a pair of 2X6s better than most of us on any real ski.   But if she says a ski is a good one, it is.

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