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Any Interest in new "Family Skiing" Forum?

post #1 of 33
2/13/03 at 10:55am
Thread Starter 
I'm curious as to whether there would be broad support for starting a new EpicSki forum called "Family Skiing." Currently, there is no decent family skiing forum out there and those that are out there are all owned by travel agents trying to sell things. There are no decent independent sources of this information. Having tried to plan family trips with young kids, I know the dearth of information that currently exists.

The idea would be to have a forum for childrens' issues, family friendly resorts, trip reports from families. By concentrating all (or at least most) of these issues in a single forum, it would negate having to use the search engine numerous times to try and find family relevant issues.

AC gave me permission to float the idea and see what the response is. Obviously this would be of little interest to those members without kids other than removing the family issues from the forums they tend to read.

[ February 13, 2003, 10:55 AM: Message edited by: Skidmo ]
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post #2 of 33
2/13/03 at 11:30am
interesting. Im thinking about teaching my own kids...they dont WANT to ski with instructors, but would love to ski with me...it would be an interesting topic in this forum, how to deal with situations like that, and other things, best deals, and so forth....I think that would be a good idea. Id be interested in seeing it.
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post #3 of 33
2/13/03 at 11:31am
no offense intended, skidmo, but I would suggest Paula's Ski Lovers if you look for family-oriented stuff. They're all happy and huggy over there, and I'm sure they would welcome a person and his/her proto-grommet juniors.

frankly, I don't want to have to tone down my language and attitude to make this place palatable to kids. Also, I'm not interested in making skiing "family-friendly," because IMHO and in my experience, that phrase usually is code language for "more amenitiies" such as condos, expensive food, pavement, SUVs and yuppies. It also spells RESORT in big fat black bold letters.

I think Paula's is the best source for family/"resort" - oriented skiing. I think that so strongly that you ought to get yerself over there NOW!

[img]graemlins/evilgrin.gif[/img]
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post #4 of 33
2/13/03 at 11:38am
GS, glad to see that you are feeling your normal self. (I don't know that you were out of sorts, though perhaps there might have been an afterSCSA lull) {I miss them days}.
Anyway, I agree that we don't need a family forum. Let the resort marketers find you, but not from here.
Fodder of 4.
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post #5 of 33
2/13/03 at 1:43pm
Thread Starter 
Gonz, I guess my "Up With People" tribute idea for the next Gathering isn't going to fly either. Too bad.
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post #6 of 33
2/13/03 at 2:11pm
Gonz - I gotta disagree with you on this one.

1) Nobody said anything about toning down the language we use. Skidmo said "young kids". They aren't the decision makers, they aren't going to be reading this forum, and in fact, the ones he is talking about probably barely know how to read.

2) Nobody said anything about using the proposed forum to "make skiing more family-friendly". I kinda doubt we have that much power.

3) I agree with you that Paula's is all huggy, but IMHO, its info content is nil. Epic's info content is high. There is no reason not to also serve this part of the skiing community as well as we currently do the adult skiing community (humm...maybe my choice of terms could have been better).

Tom / PM

PS - FWIW, I don't see myself getting much out of the proposed new forum, or even participating, other than occasionally helping someone out with info. I'm already pretty well plugged in, and my kid is well past the newbie stage.

[ February 13, 2003, 02:15 PM: Message edited by: PhysicsMan ]
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post #7 of 33
2/13/03 at 2:24pm
Here's all the info you need: If you don't want alot of inconvenience and headaches, spend $$$$$$$$$. Otherwise, don't count on getting much quality ski time.
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post #8 of 33
2/13/03 at 3:47pm
I think a family forum would be great. Gonzo will know not to venture there. [img]graemlins/evilgrin.gif[/img] Those of us that know that raising children is the most important endeavor in life : can share our experiences. If we introduce our kids to this sport in a way that they enjoy instead of just dumping them off in ski school or daycare, perhaps we can foster a life long love of the sport. When we retire our kids can then buy our lift tickets.
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post #9 of 33
2/14/03 at 3:26am
Springhill: I agree 100%.
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post #10 of 33
2/14/03 at 11:31am
Springhill - That's a good start.

I've been indoctrinating my two with the idea that when I retire, I can be the winter caretaker of the fancy ski condo, at Fernie, or Panorama, or Kicking Horse, or..........

edit for spelling

[ February 14, 2003, 11:32 AM: Message edited by: Jimmy P ]
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post #11 of 33
2/14/03 at 11:50am
"UP WITH PEOPLE????!!!!!"" OMG, ROFL!!!!

Anyways, back in January, I posted this
http://www.epicski.com/cgi-bin/ultim...=004158#000000

I did not get into the set up story, which took place 2 years ago at Whistler. But that had some issues about skiing with family, step or otherwise. So a place to discuss that sort of stuff may be interesting.
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post #12 of 33
2/14/03 at 2:00pm
If a family has even one passionate skier, it can affect the entire family. Such issues play a significant role in our lives as skiers. Lisamarie's story is a great example, and only one of many that could be posted.

I have two family issues: My sixteen year old son is a great skier who just doesn't want to go to the trouble any more . . . very sad for me. Wifey has had the living $hi# scared out of her a few years back because we urged her down a trail we thought she could handle, and she and I are still trying to work that out. OK, maybe three issues: I'm addicted to and passionate about this web site, this community, and skiing . . . my family is not. My son refers to EpicSki as my "cult". Both my wife and my son know very well how to find EpicSki, but they just aren't interested.

I do not think of a site discussing family issues as one in which the whole family participates - just as a site that addresses these particular issues. Our families are important to our lives as skiers whether they ski or not. And it is true, for those of us who have children, parenthood is the most important position we'll ever hold, bar none. For those with step children, it's a tough row to hoe, and bless you for your patience and tolerance.

I'll vote with Vamos, LM, Crazie and the other proponents - YES! to a family ski issues forum.

If Gonzo has no interest in the subject matter of the forum, he could always stay out of it.

[ February 14, 2003, 02:05 PM: Message edited by: oboe ]
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post #13 of 33
2/14/03 at 3:44pm
Oboe's classic story about the husband bringing the wife down a trail that's too challenging, brings to light the issue that "family" does not necessarily have to mean "family with children".

Some couples have the "one skis the other does not" issue. And now that some of you have met Mark and me in person, it is clearly evident that his technique is light years ahead of mine. So these are other things that can be discussed.
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post #14 of 33
2/14/03 at 3:50pm
Family Forum -- Great idea!
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post #15 of 33
2/14/03 at 5:19pm
Family Forum- A great idea, and long overdue!

The future of our industry are the kids and families. There are not enough Gonzo's to keep this sport from fading into oblivion. Since we purport to support the industry as a whole, why aren't we taking care of that group? It shows a degree of narrow mindedness to not understand the need for such a forum.

And Gonzo- if you feel this is having to tone down your rhetoric, maybe it's inappropriate anyway? Isn't civility the difference between us and the maggots?

:
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post #16 of 33
2/14/03 at 5:57pm
vail snopro! My MAN!!

Lisa, hey! Do NOT under rate yourself as a skier. I now speak from direct observation. The Perfect Curves KICK ASS!!!!
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post #17 of 33
2/14/03 at 7:16pm
I don't think this discussion is addressing the central issues. It's not a question of "is family travel planning (essentially meaning travel with kids) a worthy topic to discuss here at EpicSki", since it is already a topic that comes up as people have related questions. But rather the issues are:

1. Is this a sufficiently unique subject with a sufficiently large number of related issues to justify its own forum? (I.E., Will it be active on its own?)

2. Are the current forums, particularly the "General Ski Forum" and the "Resort Forum" not serving this subject matter well?

Starting a new forum will in some ways make it harder to find info on this and other subjects -- it spreads out the searchable archive, and makes the front index of forums more confusing (longer list). I haven't seen the General Discussion Forum overrun with family threads, but those that are posted seem to get substantive attention. How is the current setup failing this subject matter?

Please advise on how this would be better/worse than the current setup. Thanks!
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post #18 of 33
2/14/03 at 7:53pm
AC, you have already mentioned one of the down-sides to another forum, being the already long list of forums. We've lived without it to this point, and I do not think that we will evaporate in a puff of smoke if we do not have a family ski issues forum.

However, many of the members and visitors here tend to focus more on some of the forums and less on the others.

Any family that has at least one passionate skier has family issues relating to skiing that go far beyond the issue of travel with kids. I can testify that my passion for skiing has had a marked impact on the others in the family who do not share my degree of passion - and that has had an affect on me as a skier.

One expected result of an additional forum designated for family skiing issues is that it would tend to elicit discussion of this subject that would otherwise not occur. I think that family issues regarding skiing are of sufficient importance, and interest, that the addition of that forum would be worthwhile. As Vail Snopro has more than intimated, this is the future of the sport and the industry, and not merely regarding travel and resorts.

[ February 14, 2003, 08:04 PM: Message edited by: oboe ]
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post #19 of 33
2/14/03 at 9:59pm
"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."

I don't remember who said that, but it's as true a statement as you'll find anywhere.

Ignore the dragon in the doorway (gs), and do what suits the forum needs, be it a new category or just post like always in the existing ones.
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post #20 of 33
2/14/03 at 10:48pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Bonni:
"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."

I don't remember who said that, but it's as true a statement as you'll find anywhere.
<geek_mode>
Why of course that was Captain Spock, to Admiral Kirk, in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan. Explaining why he wouldn't get upset if Kirk took command away from him.

But later Kirk made it clear that sometimes "The needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many."
</geek_mode>

Since I'm the "A$$hole" in Lisa's linked post about "Stepdaughter goes to the Darkside" (a post I never noticed before!) let me say I was actually heartened by seeing that discussion, and in real-life seeing LM and Kara work through that ski-family issue. Oboe's story about his wife also is exactly the type of content that would be germane in a Family skiing forum.

But AC's point is well made - split up the board too much into separate forums, and it gets hard to find things. Perhaps family ski discusssions best fit into existing topics: "General" for the types of things Lisa and Oboe were posting about, "Resorts" for discussions about best areas for families to ski together, deals etc. The Instruction forum perhaps for posts like Linda's that touch on instruction for the kids.

I could go either way - ultimately it's AC's call. But do I hear a buzz for a poll about it?
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post #21 of 33
2/14/03 at 11:53pm
AC - at ski.com.au we have a Q&A forum - it is usually pretty small but designed to take questions from newbies & lurkers that may not know where to post...
The moderators will move threads to specific areas as they see them fit (lurkers can read but then need to register to respond to replies if it moves out of Q&A)... also regulars tend to check the area from time to time

would that help here?

Oh - the moved topics stay there - but closed with a link to the new area where the whole thread replicates itself
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post #22 of 33
2/16/03 at 8:35am
Thread Starter 
My guess is that if the forum were created, you would have more family related questions raised than in the current forums. While I've asked several family type questions in the past, I had many more but didn't raise them because I knew a lot of the forum users weren't interested in family matters and I didn't want bother them. The creation of a new forum would also remove the family questions from the other current forums, thereby making them more "pure skiing," which I think the members would appreciate. [Gonz no longer has to endure the children's harness questions in the ski gear forum.] Finally, the way the search function is set up, you type in your request and then have to select a forum. If family issues were a separate forum, it would make searching for these issues much easier.

Having said all that, Gonz's point about family values should not be ignored. The creation of a family forum would likely attract new people to the forum who may be less tolerant of colorful language. This would lead to many posts from those new people asking for members to tone down the language. This, of course, would raise headaches for you and make this place less interesting.

My personal opinion was that unless there was overwhelming support for the new forum, it shouldn't be added. To date, I'd say we have strong interest, but not overwhelming support.

In the meantime, I've got 14 inches of new snow on my driveway, another 8-12 coming down, and a brand new igloo I made with my proto-grommet juniors in our front yard yesterday. Time for me to go play in the snow. Cheers.

[ February 16, 2003, 08:37 AM: Message edited by: Skidmo ]
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post #23 of 33
2/16/03 at 8:58am
The language here is just fine, and the mere fact that a person has an intetest in familiy skiing issues probably would have zilch impact on that.

Either way is fine with me - add the family skiing forum or not - but thinking of skiing's future, and from whence it will come, makes sense.
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post #24 of 33
2/17/03 at 4:56pm
Quote:
Originally posted by milesb:
Here's all the info you need: If you don't want alot of inconvenience and headaches, spend $$$$$$$$$. Otherwise, don't count on getting much quality ski time.
I second this. Grit the teeth, and pay through the nose. We considered the kids' first year on skis as a type of investment: they learned awfully fast, faster in ski school than they would have with us, and now they can keep up (mostly). We send them back to lessons on occasion, because they still need to learn, but largely we can ski together.

As far as a forum -- how difficult is it to set one up and see how it works? (That's a real question, not a rhetorical one; I honestly don't know.) I would probably use it, but I don't feel that it's necessary, either. I guess that means I vote Yes, but I won't be upset if it doesn't happen.
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post #25 of 33
2/17/03 at 5:03pm
If votes are being counted, I want to be sure I communicate clearly: Although I would not be "upset" if a family forum does not appear, I do want to have one. I vote yes, and I do care about the result. Sorry if my above post suggested otherwise.
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post #26 of 33
2/17/03 at 8:29pm
I think quite a few topics would arrise that don't in the other forums, I was in the chat room chatting with kima & some things came up about my wifes skiing that I would not think to bring up in skiing general or resorts or teaching, but would be just the type of questions for a family type forum, also I have 6 & 12 year old boys that I take skiing & would be interested in things for them, I vote yes for such a forum.
bteddy
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post #27 of 33
2/18/03 at 2:43pm
It's a great idea! I am looking forward to it. "Adult" language is not the issue at all: kids know how to use these words better than we think, unless they are illiterate . I think a separate forum would be better, because that would ensure that only those that are interested in family skiing would go there.
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post #28 of 33
2/19/03 at 9:16am
Gonzo's Nightmare
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post #29 of 33
2/19/03 at 11:59am
VSP said:

Quote:
And Gonzo- if you feel this is having to tone down your rhetoric, maybe it's inappropriate anyway? Isn't civility the difference between us and the maggots?
No. Sense of humor is the difference.

Civility is relative.

I do NOT want to be as "civil" as the huggers and kissers and gladhanders in Paula's Ski Lovers.

kiss my grits. [img]tongue.gif[/img] : [img]graemlins/evilgrin.gif[/img]

postscript

I just noticed jamesdeluxe's very funny post. Good on ye', JD

[ February 19, 2003, 12:00 PM: Message edited by: gonzostrike ]
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post #30 of 33
2/19/03 at 2:06pm
I think a family forum is a fine idea, for all reasons above. I'm sure our time-pressed moms, dads and other interested members would appreciate the convenience of centrally located information. Plus we have some good resources here to serve them.
It also would be interesting to know what ARE our member demographics here at EpicSki.
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