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Time to start conditioning. Suggestions?

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 

Hey guys,

 

I have been slacking off for most of the summer.  I am still in decent shape,  but I really want to get into ludicrously good shape for the 14-15 race season.  This is the first summer that I have decided to do specific workouts instead of just doing hiking and biking when I feel like it.  My current plan is:

 

Alternating between day 1 and day 2:

 

Day 1:  Strength Training

 

Light cardio warm-up, 10-15 min

Body weight exercises including squats, lunges, wall sit, plank, and push-ups (30-45 min)

Light cool down & full stretching routine

 

Day 2: Endurance/Cardio Training

 

Stretch

Bicycle 5 miles to local ski resort (Gunstock)

Do some hill-running up the ski trails (1-2 miles, depending on which trails are mowed)

Bicycle 5 miles home

Stretch

 

How does that look?  I get the feeling that what I am doing is not enough.  Should I up my bike distance to 15-20 mi?

 

I will be investing in a barbell, squat rack, and weight plates as soon as my parents give me the green light.  Will a standard bar & weight set do the job or should I get an Olympic bar?

 

When I get a barbell, I will do deadlifts, squats, and lunges with it,  following a weight training program that suits my needs.

 

Also, I am trying to find a good way to improve my balance related to skiing during the summer.  Are there any exercises that don't require much equipment that I can easily add to my current routine that will help improve my balance?

 

Finally,  I have read in multiple locations that doing lots of cardio/endurance training can damage the results of strength training.  Is this something that I should worry about?

 

Thanks, and sorry for the long post.  These are probably really obvious questions that I am too blind to see the answers to. lol :P.

 

Dan

Starbird

 

Edit:  I am 14 years of age.

post #2 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starbird View Post

 

Also, I am trying to find a good way to improve my balance related to skiing during the summer.  Are there any exercises that don't require much equipment that I can easily add to my current routine that will help improve my balance?

 

Finally,  I have read in multiple locations that doing lots of cardio/endurance training can damage the results of strength training.  Is this something that I should worry about?

 

Thanks, and sorry for the long post.  These are probably really obvious questions that I am too blind to see the answers to. lol :P.

 

Dan

Starbird

 

Edit:  I am 14 years of age.

 

Dan,

I can only offer my own experience and have no training in this area, especially when it is for someone your age.

 

Try yoga.  Once you learn it, you can do it at home or wherever you're at.  The only equipment it requires is you.  I think it is worth to go to a class for a month or two but then, especially if you can find a DVD or an App, I think you can do OK on your own.  My wife found an app for me from "Yoga Studio" for $3.99.  I really like it and it offers lots of flexibility (not meant as a pun) so you can adjust the program to your needs.  I'm still going to go to class for a while and will probably only go no and again after that to make sure I'm doing things correctly.  Where I go they make sure to check your alignment and make adjustments to you as well.  I assure you, your balance will be challenged and there are other benefits as well.

 

A bosu ball works well too.  You can find plenty on its use at this site and youtube on its uses.

 

Slackline too.  Might be a bit more difficult to get and set up though.

 

Have fun and good on ya for focusing on this ahead of time.

 

Ken

post #3 of 26

Slackline is great, not that I've done it, but pro skiers do it.

 

Yoga definitely is good, one leg poses in particular as well as different warrior poses.

 

Bosu ball is also great.

 

Don't worry about cardio hurting your strength training, that's bs.  We need strong hearts as well as muscles.

post #4 of 26

If you are 14, I would say

 

1) go play a sport/game that doesn't just have an athletic goal.  Like swimming or soccer or basketball or skateboarding or gymnastics/freerunning or whatever.  Join a team/group that has practices.  

 

2) Just do some exercise everyday.  Any exercise is better than no exercise.  
If you're not at a point where you're completely in an exercise everyday routine, I would say you're counting your chickens before they hatch.   Don't worry too much about narrowing your focus so much on specific exercises until you're sure it's not motivation and commitment that's holding you back.

 

So say, once you can do 20days in a row of your alternating schedule, and you've gone every single day and feel it's too "easy", rather then cheating and missing a few day, then come back for the specific advice.  Before that, do whatever activity that just get's you out and completes the workout.

 

3) If you do do weights/gym work , find a buddy or partner for motivation.

post #5 of 26
Thread Starter 

Thanks for your support guys.  I guess I will stick to what I am doing for a little while and look into getting a slackline or bosu ball for the time being.

post #6 of 26

Be sure to have a rest day in there.  Once a week is a good idea.  Over training is a common problem.  As Ray said, do this for 8 weeks or so, than start looking to add/change things.

post #7 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz View Post
 

Be sure to have a rest day in there.  Once a week is a good idea.  Over training is a common problem.  As Ray said, do this for 8 weeks or so, than start looking to add/change things.

Thanks for warning me about over training.  I'll take either Saturday or Sunday off every week.  Or is it best to keep rest days consistent on a certain day each week? 

post #8 of 26
body weight exercises are better than nothing, but you need heavier weights for your legs.

by the time you are,18, you should new about to leg press 3+ your body weight.
post #9 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starbird View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz View Post

 
Be sure to have a rest day in there.  Once a week is a good idea.  Over training is a common problem.  As Ray said, do this for 8 weeks or so, than start looking to add/change things.
Thanks for warning me about over training.  I'll take either Saturday or Sunday off every week.  Or is it best to keep rest days consistent on a certain day each week? 
For most of us, the training regimen doesn't have to be so precise that it'll make a difference if your rest day falls on the sixth or eight day. For instance, if you have a mandatory all-day obligation on a workout day, you could use it as a rest day and restart your workout 'week.' However, it's a lot easier to keep track of things if you keep to a schedule.

Pay attention to pain. Sore muscles are one thing, but joint pain that doesn't go away with ice and attention can indicate a problem. Things to watch out for is overdoing it early on, using bad form that puts your knees or back at risk, stressing joints before your muscles can support the strain, and getting overzealous if you're not getting results as fast as you'd like.

And eat well. Lots of protein to support muscle growth, enough carbs to fuel your workouts, and don't skimp on fat, especially healthy ones. You don't want to overeat, but this isn't a time to go on a strict diet. Just make sure you've got enough nutrients that you'll stay healthy.
post #10 of 26

Thigh burning wall squats.   Nothing more directly works out the muscles that work out the most skiing.

 

Park City Ski Team was big on core training, sit ups etc. to strengthen the core.

 

I'd check in with one of the local ski teams and ask them what their dry land training routine is and do that, most of them use US Skiing recommended workouts.

post #11 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by litterbug View Post
 
For most of us, the training regimen doesn't have to be so precise that it'll make a difference if your rest day falls on the sixth or eight day. For instance, if you have a mandatory all-day obligation on a workout day, you could use it as a rest day and restart your workout 'week.' However, it's a lot easier to keep track of things if you keep to a schedule.

Pay attention to pain. Sore muscles are one thing, but joint pain that doesn't go away with ice and attention can indicate a problem. Things to watch out for is overdoing it early on, using bad form that puts your knees or back at risk, stressing joints before your muscles can support the strain, and getting overzealous if you're not getting results as fast as you'd like.

And eat well. Lots of protein to support muscle growth, enough carbs to fuel your workouts, and don't skimp on fat, especially healthy ones. You don't want to overeat, but this isn't a time to go on a strict diet. Just make sure you've got enough nutrients that you'll stay healthy.

 

Great advice and I agree.  Having some flexibility on your day off makes life easeir.  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagles Pdx View Post
 

Thigh burning wall squats.   Nothing more directly works out the muscles that work out the most skiing.

 

Park City Ski Team was big on core training, sit ups etc. to strengthen the core.

 

 

Also great advice.  Wall sits are awesome.  And yes, don't forget your core.  Leg raises, bicycle kicks, flutter kicks, crunches.

 

As to balance training, standing on one foot, I like the yoga tree pose for this - is great.  Stand on one foot and close your eyes - much harder.

 

If your'e trail running that should be really good for balance too.

post #12 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagles Pdx View Post
 

Avoid Thigh burning wall squats.   Nothing more directly works out the muscles that work out the most when skiing in the back seat.

 

Park City Ski Team was big on core training, sit ups etc. to strengthen the core.

 

I'd check in with one of the local ski teams and ask them what their dry land training routine is and do that, most of them use US Skiing recommended workouts.

Fixed it for you.

You should do excercises that require you to balance, and avoid any excercise or machine that provides support.  Avoid isomterics as well.

Try squats on an unstable surface or one leg squats, bench press from a stabilty ball, different kinds of planks form a stabiltiy ball.  That stuff maximizes balance and minimizes that need for big weights.  

I did a program for race coaches from the USOC a few years ago.  At that time, they were all about light weights and stabilty balls to develop core strength and balance.  They had kids there that could do crazy stuff with those balls, but I never saw a Skiers Edge or any other machine, or a set of Olympic weights, and they definitely didn't do wall squats.

 

BK 

post #13 of 26

12oz curls are the way to go;)

post #14 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by UGASkiDawg View Post
 

12oz curls are the way to go;)

 

 

He's 14!

post #15 of 26
Hey I was doing lots of 12oz curls when I was 14........maybe that explains a few things about me.....hmmm
post #16 of 26
post #17 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by UGASkiDawg View Post

Hey I was doing lots of 12oz curls when I was 14........maybe that explains a few things about me.....hmmm

:rotflmao:

post #18 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by UGASkiDawg View Post

Hey I was doing lots of 12oz curls when I was 14........maybe that explains a few things about me.....hmmm

Ditto but it was more like I was still doing them at 14 nonono2.gif
Edited by L&AirC - 8/19/14 at 3:16am
post #19 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by L&AirC View Post


Ditto but it was more like I was still doing them at 14 nonono2.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by UGASkiDawg View Post
 

12oz curls are the way to go;)

Heh I think I'll stay away from those.  :D

 

Once again,  thank you for all the replies.  Great info.  I'll be looking into investing in a bosu ball and also into some yoga for balance.  I'll add these to my current program for now, and I'll be looking into weight training in month depending on how this goes.  Sounds like a good idea?


Edited by Starbird - 8/19/14 at 6:16am
post #20 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starbird View Post

Heh I think I'll stay away from those.  biggrin.gif

Once again,  thank you for all the replies.  Great info.  I'll be looking into investing in a bosu ball and also into some yoga for balance.  I'll add these to my current program for now, and I'll be looking into weight training in month depending on how this goes.  Sounds like a good idea?

Sounds like a solid plan- great that your thinking about getting ready now!

I'm planning on dropping a modified version of what I have been using w some athletes in early September. Here's a peek:
Pry Squat


Gladiator Press
post #21 of 26
post #22 of 26

Most certainly don't lift heavy weights at 14. You're still growing and the damage to growth plates can be considerable both in the medium and long term. When it's the right time to do so, make sure you do it under the advice and supervision of a genuine expert.

 

Isometric exercises like the wall sit are of very limited benefit to skiers and the fact that skiers still do them does not make them any more effective.

 

Body weight resistance exercises are going to be just fine; push ups etc. for your strength training. Riding your bike and running are great as well both for aerobic and anaerobic training

but build into your riding some short hard uphills and some fast downhills as well, both of great benefit to skiers. Use the Bosu if you get one or if not improvise with even just a cushion to do some balance work and incorporate things like single leg squats on the Bosu or cushion. Making the surface unstable replicates skiing far more effectively. As has been said, avoid machines that stabilise other muscle groups. Make sure to find time for flexibility whether it's in the form of yoga or otherwise. It may not give you the burn or exhaust you like other aspects of your programme but it is equally important and often neglected especially by men. Finally, build in some agility work; skipping, agility ladder, hopping and jumping routines etc.

 

Please don't pump iron; not yet anyhow.

post #23 of 26

Real men curl (Imperial) 20 oz.

 

At 14 you can start weightlifting and it will have an effect, but I agree no heavy* weights for at least the first 6 months; it is too easy to injure yourself.  Also free weights rule. 

(*Heavy = you can't finish your third set of 5 to 10 reps, with a 2 minute break between sets).  Not advocating weightlifting to get in shape for skiing, but it is a good way to get strong and feel good about yourself, and looking big and strong is a better way to avoid trouble than being able to kick the sh*t out of folks who underestimate you.

 

As to wall squats, and other deep knee bending exercises, make sure you don't bend that knee past 90 degrees (I used to do one legged squats from the lowest possible position :nono:). 

post #24 of 26
Thread Starter 

You guys are the best,  Thanks for all the advice.

post #25 of 26

A few thoughts from me:

 

- 14 is a pretty good age to start strength training, and strength training is a great tool for skiers. 

- Master your bodyweight before piling on external load. Think pushups before bench press and rear foot elevated split squats before barbell squats. Develop control first, then add to that.

- If you are inflexible, include flexibility in your training plan.

- If you plan to do squats and deadlifts at any point (and I would suggest you should), learn how to do them properly. Squats are not bad for your knees and deadlifts are not bad for your back; they are fantastic training tools! But squats and deadlifts done poorly are bad for your knees and your back. 

- Single leg strength training with exercises like single leg Romanian deadlifts and split squats provide both great strength training and great balance training, making them excellent choices for skiers.

- Keep your training balanced in terms of the muscles/movements you're working. At least as many "hip dominant" (aka Deadlift type exercises) as "knee dominant" (aka squat type exercises), and at least as many pulls (rowing or pullups) as pushes (bench press and pushups).

- The core is more than just the six pack muscles. Ability to control rotary forces is crucial to your ability to ski in control and to your ability to reduce injury risk. Learn about exercises like half kneeling chops and lifts. I would consider them essential training for all athletes, including skiers.

- Here is a prioritized list of what you need in your training. In a good program you should be able to get it all in: Moving well, getting Strong, building Power, developing Cardio, and improving Agility. Others may disagree with that order, but that's because they're wrong ;)

 

And if you are interested in a phased and progressive training program geared toward skiers, and developed by a ski instructor and personal trainer (yes. yes I am about to endorse my own product :) ), check out my 12 week sti training program. It addresses all of the above.  http://www.customstrength.com/skiebook.html You can read the intro here, to get an idea of what it includes: http://www.customstrength.com/Ski%20Training%20programIntroduction.pdf

 

(for the moderators - I think I probably do this about once a year, so hopefully I provide enough other contributions that you don't mind that I plugged my product here. If you do mind, please feel free to erase the product promo part - I won't be offended.) 

post #26 of 26

Before you start weightlifting get a wooden broom handle. Practice the main barbell lifts (deadlift, front and back squat, overhead squat, power clean, power snatch) using just the handle. If you can either do in front of a mirror or get someone to make films of you, then you can check your form and technqiue and make sure you are doing the lifts right before you start lifting any weight. It will also expose any balance and flexibility issues you have which prevent you from having correct form and you can begin to target some strechting/balance exercise to improve where necessary. There are loads of good film clips on youtube which demonstrate correct technique of the different lifts.

 

Then progress to a naked barbell and only gadually begin to add weights. Concentrate on form and technqiue, rather than worrying about what weight you can lift. In the long run if you learn the correct technique you will develop strength faster and you will minimise risk of injury.

 

A few other points:

 

- Deep squatting is perfectly OK. Just be aware that "getting out from the hole" is harder than from 90 degrees. So if you squat deep, reduce the weight and take it easy at the beginning. Again, get your technqiue right first and then begin to add weight!.

- Some heavy lifts, especially back squats;  are dangerous unless you have either a safety "power rack" or someone ready to help you out if you go too heavy. If you are lifting on your own some sessions, do not push up to your max, but stick to more reps at a lower weight and maybe focus on the less dangerous lifts like deadlift and power clean.

- I would go for an olympic bar and rubber weights if you can afford it, especially if you are training in your parents' house! Less noise and no damage to the floor. Plus an olympic 50mm bar is wide enough for a snatch grip and will last you a lifetime. A 25mm training bar usually has a maximum weight which you will exceed after a whille and often they are not long enough to permit a snatch grip. The snatch, while a difficult lift to learn, is a really good lift for skiing because it's really explosive, and needs a lot of core strength to keep the bar in balance as it scomes over your head.

- try to take contact with a weightlifting club or sports coach with weightliftning knowledge who can help you develop your technqiue.

 

M

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