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Cutting carbon poles

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 
I broke off the tip of a carbon pole and the guy at the ski shop put glue in it to keep it from cracking farther but now it slips out when trying to pole plant. I don't use the poles anymore but I gave them to my dad and he would still like to use them. I brought them to a ski shop that said they can't cut carbon poles but other ski shops might be able to. Is there anywhere in the SLC area that could do it, or a way I could do it myself? The pole has to be cut by the tip, not the grip.
post #2 of 19
Not sure why you are cutting at the tip. I have cut leki and swix carbons at the handle
post #3 of 19
Thread Starter 
As I said in the OP, it's because the tip broke and with the glue on it, it slides out, so I need it trimmed down to get rid of the glued part.
post #4 of 19

The shaft is similar to a golf club shaft, and easy to trim.  The problem is that you will have a weakened bare tip that will split again.  Anyhow, put the shaft in a vice protecting it with something (a split open old golf club grip will do). Do not over tighten.   Wrap some tape (blue tape is easy to work with) around the shaft where you want to cut so it doesn't splinter, mark where you want to cut, and cut away.  A simple hack saw will work, although you can  get better blades for the material. If you are using a power tool, just wrap and mark where you are cutting and cut away.  I imagine the ski shop didn't want to work on it because it would probably splinter again.  The pole really does need the metal tip.  I'd toss the poles and buy new ones.

post #5 of 19

Would be the same as Carbon Fiber Arrow Shafts. After that I would use an Epoxy to set the tip in place.  Do a acetone wipe on the end and inside of the cut and tip just prior to applying the epoxy. This helps in drawing the epoxy into the pores of the material.  Note no visible wetness of acetone when applying epoxy.

 

 

post #6 of 19

Take precautions with the dust from cutting. Wear a mask or use a shop vac right next to it while you are cutting. CF dust/particles are not something you want to be breathing in.

post #7 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by quant2325 View Post
 

The shaft is similar to a golf club shaft, and easy to trim.  The problem is that you will have a weakened bare tip that will split again.  Anyhow, put the shaft in a vice protecting it with something (a split open old golf club grip will do). Do not over tighten.   Wrap some tape (blue tape is easy to work with) around the shaft where you want to cut so it doesn't splinter, mark where you want to cut, and cut away.  A simple hack saw will work, although you can  get better blades for the material. If you are using a power tool, just wrap and mark where you are cutting and cut away.  I imagine the ski shop didn't want to work on it because it would probably splinter again.  The pole really does need the metal tip.  I'd toss the poles and buy new ones.

 

This!!  The shaft diameter typically increases as you move up form the tip so the chances of cutting it and reinserting the tip successfully are pretty small - there is a reason we always cut them down from the handle end!

post #8 of 19

How wide is the pole shaft just above where you wish to make the cut?

The quickest and easiest way to do a functional repair is to cut the old tip completely off and fix on an external ferrule (and a new basket)

 

External ferrules come in a wide array of sizes -

 

Goode have 10.4mm and 12.7mm ferrules here:

http://store.goode.com/tip-collet/      - these have pretty short slots but they bond well to epoxy or urethane adhesives, you see them on rental poles and they last quite well if properly glued.

 

Swix make both alpine and nordic ferrules that go 10mm up to 16 mm shafts, with long slots that  pressure fit with almost no adhesive needed  -

look  for alpine race  like this

http://www.artechski.com/2014-Swix-FerrulesPole-Tips-Extended-Length-3521.aspx#gsc.tab=0
 

you can use the nordic ones too if you grind away the sharp tip
http://www.swixsport.com/eway/default.aspx?pid=278&trg=MainContent_6179&MainContent_6179=6117:0:24,2752  

Leki also do a pretty popular 12mm size, their smaller 10+mm size is getting hard to find but fits Scott Taperlite/Protaper and some Kerma graphite poles.  

https://www.reliableracing.com/category2.cfm?category=1049


These have nice semi long slots with lots of surface area but they  are somewhat fussy about being glued & do not bond well to some epoxies.  Urethanes like 3M 5200 work fine esp. if you fill the adhesive with 0000 steel wool threads.

 

PS from your description of the damage I wonder if what you broke was the old OEM ferrule, and the carbon shaft inside the remnant is still perfectly intact?  'F'so, replacement is trivial once you cut the remnant of the OEM ferrule off.


Edited by cantunamunch - 8/4/14 at 10:44am
post #9 of 19

For poles I do prefer good quality aluminum racing poles as they do seem to stand up better to abuse, but you do pay for this.  I personally have looked at Carbon poles and been very tempted, but the biggest hold back has been looking at my Al poles is the slight nicks above and below the basket cause by edges of the ski (mine or someone else like in a lift line).  These nicks are the death of Carbon poles (and arrows) as this is likely the failure point under higher stress conditions.

 

While saving them may seem like a good idea for a few bucks, maybe its not worth the effort overall.

post #10 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschoolskier View Post
 

For poles I do prefer good quality aluminum racing poles as they do seem to stand up better to abuse, but you do pay for this.  I personally have looked at Carbon poles and been very tempted, but the biggest hold back has been looking at my Al poles is the slight nicks above and below the basket cause by edges of the ski (mine or someone else like in a lift line).  These nicks are the death of Carbon poles (and arrows) as this is likely the failure point under higher stress conditions.

 

While saving them may seem like a good idea for a few bucks, maybe its not worth the effort overall.

I hear you OSS but my experience with top quality ones is that they are very durable.  I have several pairs of Swix race composite poles and they have stood up successfully to a lot of abuse and nicks.  The downside of course is that you become so used to them that an ally one seems inordinately heavy afterwards!! 

post #11 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschoolskier View Post
 

.  These nicks are the death of Carbon poles (and arrows) as this is likely the failure point under higher stress conditions.

 

 

The syndrome you describe has been IME more true of fiberglass or 'composite' poles.  
 

I have recovered several pairs of CF poles that have been completely undamaged except for either snapping the plastic ferrule off or losing it entirely.     Steel gratings used for gondola/lift decks are deadly to plastic ferrules.

post #12 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschoolskier View Post
 

For poles I do prefer good quality aluminum racing poles as they do seem to stand up better to abuse, but you do pay for this.  I personally have looked at Carbon poles and been very tempted, but the biggest hold back has been looking at my Al poles is the slight nicks above and below the basket cause by edges of the ski (mine or someone else like in a lift line).  These nicks are the death of Carbon poles (and arrows) as this is likely the failure point under higher stress conditions.

 

While saving them may seem like a good idea for a few bucks, maybe its not worth the effort overall.

 

My son races with Swix Composites and they are beat to crap. They have a pretty thick gel coat before you ever reach the fiber.

post #13 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post
 

How wide is the pole shaft just above where you wish to make the cut?

The quickest and easiest way to do a functional repair is to cut the old tip completely off and fix on an external ferrule (and a new basket)

 

External ferrules come in a wide array of sizes -

 

Goode have 10.4mm and 12.7mm ferrules here:

http://store.goode.com/tip-collet/      - these have pretty short slots but they bond well to epoxy or urethane adhesives, you see them on rental poles and they last quite well if properly glued.

 

Swix make both alpine and nordic ferrules that go 10mm up to 16 mm shafts, with long slots that  pressure fit with almost no adhesive needed  -

look  for alpine race  like this

http://www.artechski.com/2014-Swix-FerrulesPole-Tips-Extended-Length-3521.aspx#gsc.tab=0
 

you can use the nordic ones too if you grind away the sharp tip
http://www.swixsport.com/eway/default.aspx?pid=278&trg=MainContent_6179&MainContent_6179=6117:0:24,2752  

Leki also do a pretty popular 12mm size, their smaller 10+mm size is getting hard to find but fits Scott Taperlite/Protaper and some Kerma graphite poles.  

https://www.reliableracing.com/category2.cfm?category=1049


These have nice semi long slots with lots of surface area but they  are somewhat fussy about being glued & do not bond well to some epoxies.  Urethanes like 3M 5200 work fine esp. if you fill the adhesive with 0000 steel wool threads.

 

PS from your description of the damage I wonder if what you broke was the old OEM ferrule, and the carbon shaft inside the remnant is still perfectly intact?  'F'so, replacement is trivial once you cut the remnant of the OEM ferrule off.


The OP mentioned he broke off the tip, not that is slipped off.  If so, the pole is shortened.  Therefore, work will have to be done on both poles to make them symmetrical.  He mentioned the shop glued it to keep it from "cracking further..."  I assumed the shaft was cracked, but perhaps he can post a photo or two?  If it is just a ferrule falling off, your suggestion is spot-on.  I am concerned about the "cracking further" part.  Anyhow, a good two-part epoxy is all your need for this type of repair (assuming the ferule just doesn't wedge itself onto the shaft tightly).  You don't need the 24-hour cure stuff, just any good two-part epoxy.   Epoxy will not adhere well to a painted shaft, though.  So the paint of the area in question will have to be scrapped off (the back of a sharp knife or blade will quickly do the work) for the epoxy to adhere properly.  Scrape the paint until you see flat black and no more. 

post #14 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by quant2325 View Post

The OP mentioned he broke off the tip, not that is slipped off.  If so, the pole is shortened. 

 

Of course, yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by quant2325 View Post

 Therefore, work will have to be done on both poles to make them symmetrical. 

 

Not if the  OP's description 'broke off the tip'  fits my suggested scenario, with the break in the OEM ferrule between where the carbon ends and the metal begins.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post

 

PS from your description of the damage I wonder if what you broke was the old OEM ferrule, and the carbon shaft inside the remnant is still perfectly intact?  'F'so, replacement is trivial once you cut the remnant of the OEM ferrule off.

 

Consider further:

- The overwhelming majority of carbon poles are built this way (I can think of maybe two exceptions, not well marketed), so 'breaking a tip' in almost all semantically valid cases will include damage to the ferrule.

- Molded plastic  is weaker than the same molded plastic with CF inside and weaker than the same molded plastic with metal inside, in both shear and tension, so damage to the ferrule is preferentially going to occur between the metal and the carbon.

 

So, yes, I did completely understand the OP's tip didn't just slip off.     I took the time to think about both what type of pole the OP probably had and where the break occurred.  

 

Then I gave him a first course of diagnostics and a mechanically reliable fix method.

 

Sure, pictures would help.   If the break happened where I think it did, then simply wading in with two-part epoxy is failure waiting to happen.   Even if the epoxy bonds to the plastic (by no means guaranteed) the bond area is tiny and the repair area *will* be put in shear. 

post #15 of 19
Thread Starter 
Thank you everyone for the responses, sorry for taking a few days to get back to you. The shaft split near the bottom, the splitting definitely went into the carbon, not just the tip, and I no longer have the tip. I took a photo but because of the resin used to keep it from cracking further, it's hard to see exactly what happened. I would like to cut it just above the pole basket, because there is resin on the tip all the way to the basket. If I use a hacksaw and do that, will I be able to get another basket and a tip to fit on it, perhaps from one of the pages Cantunamunch linked? The place where I would cut it is 3/8 inch diameter.
post #16 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sh4d0w View Post

Thank you everyone for the responses, sorry for taking a few days to get back to you. The shaft split near the bottom, the splitting definitely went into the carbon, not just the tip, and I no longer have the tip. I took a photo but because of the resin used to keep it from cracking further, it's hard to see exactly what happened

 

If you have a hook knife of the type used to cut flooring  or a Dremel tool, you can actually take the molded plastic and the resin completely off, and leave just the shaft (including the bit that's split).     The hook knife is used kind of like cutting corn off a cob by putting the blade parallel to the shaft and pushing away from you.   A regular knife is more dangerous to use and I don't recommend that.

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh4d0w View Post

 The place where I would cut it is 3/8 inch diameter.

 

 

That will correspond to the 10 mm sizes.   Yes that should work, too, but you will need to do the other shaft as well.

post #17 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post

If you have a hook knife of the type used to cut flooring  or a Dremel tool, you can actually take the molded plastic and the resin completely off, and leave just the shaft (including the bit that's split).     The hook knife is used kind of like cutting corn off a cob by putting the blade parallel to the shaft and pushing away from you.   A regular knife is more dangerous to use and I don't recommend that.



Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sh4d0w View Post

 The place where I would cut it is 3/8 inch diameter.


That will correspond to the 10 mm sizes.   Yes that should work, too, but you will need to do the other shaft as well.

I don't think taking the resin off is an option, even if I could somehow separate it from the pole, the part that split was pretty severe so it would just split further. Unless I'm misunderstanding you.

Anyway, I'll just try cutting right above the part that split if I can get ahold of the tools and then get some 10mm tips. Thanks for the info. 3/8 inch is 9.525mm, will that be close enough to 10mm to work?
post #18 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sh4d0w View Post. Thanks for the info. 3/8 inch is 9.525mm, will that be close enough to 10mm to work?

 

Yes, but you will want to get ones with deep recesses and use adhesive around the pole shaft.

post #19 of 19
Thread Starter 
Alright, thanks for all the info!
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