or Connect
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Ski Training and Pro Forums › Ski Instruction & Coaching › Body Position Vs. Ski's Needs
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Body Position Vs. Ski's Needs - Page 2

post #31 of 41
The list of skiers and racers includes just about everyone on the tour. It is hard to teach that level of accuracy at speed because there is so much more to focus on. Line, terrain, and not crashing being just a few.
Ironically the fundamental balancing skills learned in the beginner corral translate to any line, turn size and shape, shape, and snow conditions / steepness.
Edited by justanotherskipro - 8/9/14 at 6:02am
post #32 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post

The list of skiers and racers includes just about everyone on the tour. It is hard to teach that level of accuracy at speed because there is so much more to focus on. Line, terrain, and not crashing being just a few.
Ironically the fundamental balancing skills learned in the beginner corral translate to any line, turn size and shape, shape, and snow conditions / steepness.

JASP.

With beginners, do we not work with balance skills that are within their familiar world of gravitational awareness? That is, we work with them on balancing ON their skis.  As a ski on edge bends and accelerates into a turn we transition to centripetal balance or balance AGAINST the ski.  I don't know if full centripetal balance is obtainable in the beginner coral. 

 

With that in mind, I agree with your position on slow speed learning.  It is the transition from gravitational balance to centripetal balance that has to be experienced and a slow skidding to carving turn (I call it a patience turn) is an excellent way to get there and build confidence. 

just my 2 cents

John

post #33 of 41
The embryonic stage a beginner is experiencing and full on world cup level skiers working on a level of accuracy most cannot truly fathom represent the very same skill pool just different ends of that pool. Between those extreme ends most of us operate. But make no mistake balancing on the ski, not blocking against it is the goal.
post #34 of 41

I don't know where I inferred  "blocking" in my post. It may be just semantics. I can live with the word "on".  My point was that there are 2 balance environments..gravitational and centripetal.  Blocking occurs when we react to the centrifugal force created as an equal and opposite to the centripetal.

post #35 of 41

JSAP,  I've slept on it and I wanted to get back to you.  My use of the word "against" was not semantics, it was wrong.  I have often used "on" and "against" to distinguish between gravitational and centripetal balance.  In both cases we need to be ON and encouraging the ski not fighting against it. Your motto is "Skiing well starts in you mind"  thanks for making me use it!

post #36 of 41

Balance.....and the title of the thread.

 

Understanding what balance is the key, body position it the tool to make it happen, the ski's need's are the initiator of the movement.  This doesn't matter if you the minute on skis or the best skier in the world.

 

Side slip drills (and their numerous variations) are the best in get the brain to understand body position for a given input (ski's needs).  How this helps a skier is that as skills (learning) progress the body reacts in the best manner given an input to keep balance.

 

The better the reaction the better the skier.

post #37 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post

The embryonic stage a beginner is experiencing and full on world cup level skiers working on a level of accuracy most cannot truly fathom represent the very same skill pool just different ends of that pool. Between those extreme ends most of us operate. But make no mistake balancing on the ski, not blocking against it is the goal.
BSmeter.gif

Very same skill pool? Maybe if you wish hard enough this fiction will come to life ("I do believe in fairies. I do! I do!")

In fact, this lie is at the root of why so few skiers become strong skiers.
post #38 of 41
Balance is balance. It really is no different than learning to walk before running SE. Why you would take issue with that is curious.
post #39 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post
 

 

@james123, when you worked on getting your Level II then your Level III certification, did you get to skip the whole slow-drill thing?

Doing slow drills is a big deal where I come from, and for good reason.  I'm curious about this.  Your approach to skiing is very different from the Level IIIs I know.


Not to hijack a conversation, but he hasn't responded.

 

I don't find that I do slow-drills often, either. I could draw up a pie-chart and break it down into neat little percentages of my time spent on the mountain.. but I'll just say that I don't do drills very often.

 

I've done plenty of drills in learning certain tasks or in clinics, sure.. but very infrequently by comparison to how often I ski. Some of the drills have helped me, and many have been inane, as you would expect.

 

I do, however, ski with a focus 100% of the time.

post #40 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post

Balance is balance. It really is no different than learning to walk before running SE. Why you would take issue with that is curious.
Because balance isn't balance. The ability to maintain COM over BOS is dependent on the environment. That's why balance is trained in a variety of different environments, it expands your skill set. Otherwise everybody wouldn't need to train it since we can all walk without falling.
The skills needed to balance at slow speeds are quite different than the ones needed at high speed, be cases the environment is different (different forces, different magnitude) so it could be seen as a completely different type of balance.
post #41 of 41
Perhaps the best explanation written came from Ollie Larsson years ago. I will attempt to summarize it but if you want the complete text it is from the book World Cup Ski Technique.

The contact point(s) with the Earth and the area between multiple contact points create a geometric figure. Three points making a triangle, four a rectangle / polygon. If our center of mass stays over that base balancing is pretty easy. When it moves outside that area, or we move the base so the CoM is no longer there, we topple. In skiing we move both and the surface we are moving across is also highly variable. So balance is indeed quite challenging. That being said, this concept is a constant in the accelerated perspective of the person moving regardless of their talent level. What changes is the grading curve.

It is interesting to me how this simple subject (balance and balancing) elicits such stong responses considering the top skiers in the world, past and present, and top ski instructors see the slow speed flat work as a very valuable part of a comprehensive and complete training regimine. Argue otherwise if you must but you are arguing with a lot of folk in a lot of countries who practice, or prescribe this practice for their students. If it is good enough for world cup level skiers, why would it not be good for the rest of us?
Edited by justanotherskipro - 8/12/14 at 6:54pm
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Instruction & Coaching
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Ski Training and Pro Forums › Ski Instruction & Coaching › Body Position Vs. Ski's Needs