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A thanks, and some more advice wanted - Page 2

post #31 of 75
Thread Starter 

Conditions wise however, would i find a 3 degree edge appropriate? Would ice blunt it too much or is it good to have that angle for best edge purchase, and just sharpen after every trip? I am interested mostly in carving, but particularly on busy days one finds themselves going sideways a bit on the ice to slow in the crowds who have scraped the loose snow off the top of the trail, which i imagine isn't great for the edges.

 

Each morning its generally a fair bit of ice at the top, especially off the trail until the sun comes over the mountain around 10-11am to soften it up. In contrast there can be slight slush at the bottom in the afternoon on some days - not that i'm skiing the bottom a lot. The midfield is generally well groomed and carved enough that you generally dont see see icy conditions on trail. The other side of the mountain (other ski field) can be less icy, but i have less experience with observing conditions there, and there is a lot of valleys which also makes the snow remain in shadow, and in these spots you seem to get a fair bit of ice too.

 

I know it's often personal preference, but just trying to understand what's ideal for the circumstance.

post #32 of 75
I really don't think there would be an appreciable difference in how often you'd have to sharpen the edges, but my understanding is that one degree makes a big difference in purchase on ice.
post #33 of 75

$15 bucks including setting the angles and wax is a great deal!

 

I can tell you that the 3 degree side instead of a two degree side makes a big difference in performance on ice and hardpack, but as far as I can notice doesn't dull any faster.  The one degree on the base makes it a lot easier to control the smear factor, but sloppier for pure precise carving, but only at initiation; once the edge is engaged it holds fine, provided you have enough side bevel. (adding base bevel makes your edge less acute; adding edge bevel makes your edge more acute; more acute grips and digs in better.)

 

I would start with a 0.5 base and the  2 side that you already have.  If you find it's too unforgiving, it is easy to reset the base to 1, but you can't go backwards without wasting a whole lot of material.  If you find it is not digging in enough for you when on edge then change to a three side.  Again it is easy to increase the angle, but you can't go backwards without wasting a lot of material.

post #34 of 75
Well that's a good deal price wise. This side of the equator and meridian that would cost you 50- 60$. Shop sounds much better.

I've never heard of a 1.5deg side edge. There's no point, just go two deg.(edit: theres reasons to do half degrees on the side but that's beyond the scope here. Certainly 1.5 is weird. If you file at 2.5 or 3.5 then you can stone at 2 or 3 deg) A 3 deg side edge has a lot more grip and according to many does not wear out faster.
However, why dont you learn the difference? Its easy to go from 1 to 2 to 3 degree side edge Have the shop set it at 1 or 2 then change it yourself.

The base bevel makes the most difference in general character.
Personally i like 0.75 deg in general. Its quicker than 1 but not so quick as 0.5 for stuff like half pipes.

You should experiment so you see the difference. Then you'll know.

All this stuff about "dry snow" etc and how its different is wives tales. I assure you your snow is not drier than in Utah. The wordt is grippy manmade with weird refreeze cycles and fresh hard manmade. If its grippy, a small base bevel, 0.5 or less, feels like the ski is glued to the snow. ( a concave base feels that way also- like it won't release into the turn)

Edges are edges. The sharper the edge is the more it holds and also holds on There's actually a difference felt between 89 degrees- a 1 base 2 side, and 88 - a 1 base 3 side.
But you need to try these things. You're not going to self destruct if you have the "wrong" edge angles. If you do go 0.5 base bevel take it easy at first. You may hate it. Give it at least a day though.

On another note, if your boots are a slop fest, way too big, a 0.5 base bevel could be uncontrollable. Thats partly why most shops just do 1 degree or more. A true 1 deg is just fine, but many are more like 1-3 degrees when they go for 1.

Soft snow this stuff doesnt matter so much.
post #35 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by eXDee View Post
 

Looks like fortunately that isn't the case. He did claim they bevelled the base "to get a rocking effect" though.

 

Unfortunately I dont have a true bar. What i do have is a basic square edge tool, my file, and my base edge beveller to hold against it. Im thinking this is probably flat base (90/0?) with 88 (or some angle) on the edge. Given how small 1 degree is, it's hard to know.

Heres a dump of the photos i just took that weren't blurry. I know that its not accurate to try and hold it on the edge, but its the best i can do without a proper tool.

When i gently move the 1 degree belever with a diamond stone, it seems i get a bit of friction and a slight scraping sound.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/x3beedqa4zfohe0/AACtokxsjlNZppmctNAC6r3ra

 

It looks like their machine took enough material off to get out every burr and ding - i can only see a couple of leftover marks.

You really need a light source behind the straight edge. Just laying it in there , although the edges look like 0 bevel it is hard to tell.

 

And the gap for a 1 degree = 1 mm of gap,  60 mm across the ski when the straight edge is matched to the base edge angle. 

 

This tuner is an absolute ninny or has not learned to feel his edges in his amazing 15 years gaping around the hill. 

 

The difference between  a 0 degree and 1 degree base bevel is amazingly huge in ski-ability as is .5 and 1 

 

 

DO A 1 BASE 3 SIDE!!!!   :D

post #36 of 75
Tog, I have 1.5 degree side on all my skis. One pair came like that, the others I moved from a 1 degree side to that, and they are all going to 2 this fall. Finding a side bevel for 1.5 is a pain, had to get an adjustable guide. Once I get to 2, I'll eventually go back to a fixed angle guide.

I find it easier to adjust the new things gradually...
post #37 of 75
How do you know it had 1.5 deg side? Someone told you?

Shops do the damndest things. Its just silly when they invent all sorts of reasons for it like the "special" snow in NZ that no one else has. Maybe its the Fog at Whitefish that calls for a 1.5? :-)

We could've told you 10 yrs ago to go to two instead of looking around for a 1.5 deg edge guide. Adjustable ones are generally poor.

Why not really go crazy and try a 3 deg side this year?? Then youll feel like you have edges. 1.5 to 2 isnt that much.
post #38 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post

How do you know it had 1.5 deg side? Someone told you?

Shops do the damndest things. Its just silly when they invent all sorts of reasons for it like the "special" snow in NZ that no one else has. Maybe its the Fog at Whitefish that calls for a 1.5? :-)

We could've told you 10 yrs ago to go to two instead of looking around for a 1.5 deg edge guide. Adjustable ones are generally poor.

Why not really go crazy and try a 3 deg side this year?? Then youll feel like you have edges. 1.5 to 2 isnt that much.

Come on it is skiing! Just dive in and Double it...............................go to a 3 and fugettabotit! 

 

It is not going to flip you on your head!:eek   A 3 is not going crazy, not even considered extreme!  Come on balls up!

post #39 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post

How do you know it had 1.5 deg side? Someone told you?

Shops do the damndest things. Its just silly when they invent all sorts of reasons for it like the "special" snow in NZ that no one else has. Maybe its the Fog at Whitefish that calls for a 1.5? :-)

We could've told you 10 yrs ago to go to two instead of looking around for a 1.5 deg edge guide. Adjustable ones are generally poor.

Why not really go crazy and try a 3 deg side this year?? Then youll feel like you have edges. 1.5 to 2 isnt that much.

That was what it measured when it came out of the box.  And just because everyone here says to go to 3, doesn't mean I see any need for it.  We actually have snow here, I rarely need sharp edges (maybe in the spring on Heep Steep).  I know about adjustable guides and have the fixed in a 1.  Just "passing through" the 1.5 after I started preferring that to the old edge.  Mostly going to 2 so I can get a fixed guide again (and maybe even take them to a shop and not have to explain the 1.5.)  The skis have definitely NOT been in a shop since I got to that, because I have enough trouble keeping them from detuning things, let alone doing a "different" bevel. (Not sure they will ever go again, as I am planning on starting doing my own structure this fall.) Don't need some young whippersnapper giving the old bat a hard time about a 1.5 degree angle.  

 

I know enough about my skiing to know that 3 could interfere with me skidding my turns if the snow actually got scraped off.  :D   

 

And, AMan, got no balls and want no balls.  

post #40 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post
 

That was what it measured when it came out of the box.  And just because everyone here says to go to 3, doesn't mean I see any need for it.  We actually have snow here, I rarely need sharp edges (maybe in the spring on Heep Steep).  I know about adjustable guides and have the fixed in a 1.  Just "passing through" the 1.5 after I started preferring that to the old edge.  Mostly going to 2 so I can get a fixed guide again (and maybe even take them to a shop and not have to explain the 1.5.)  The skis have definitely NOT been in a shop since I got to that, because I have enough trouble keeping them from detuning things, let alone doing a "different" bevel. (Not sure they will ever go again, as I am planning on starting doing my own structure this fall.) Don't need some young whippersnapper giving the old bat a hard time about a 1.5 degree angle.  

 

I know enough about my skiing to know that 3 could interfere with me skidding my turns if the snow actually got scraped off.  :D   

 

And, AMan, got no balls and want no balls.   It's a figure of speech!;)

Wrong wrong wrong!!!

 

 Base bevel affects edge engagement, side edge does not come into play until engaged. 

 

How come I can sideslip all day long on a 3 degree side edge, employ redirection at will and do 360's until the cows come home?

 

Now a .5 base bevel, that is a bit more dicey, but still totally skid-able.  0 base bevel on shaped boards is tough.  But in the old days a 90 degree Flat base 0 side is what everyone skied. I didn't see any lack of skidding!:D

post #41 of 75

Really, you're not going to make me change the side bevel until I'm ready to.  You're wasting your time.   It's a rare day when I care about the side bevel.  No need to start digging into the sidewall just to keep you happy.  

post #42 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post
 

Really, you're not going to make me change the side bevel until I'm ready to.  You're wasting your time.   It's a rare day when I care about the side bevel.  No need to start digging into the sidewall just to keep you happy.  

That is ridiculous!  It is a rare day you care about the side edge bevel?:confused WTF?

 

You are missing out and limiting performance.  But ya don't know what ya don't know!

 

Really I am not taking it personally and don't give a rat's ass!

 

1.5 side edge bevel is the dumbest thing I have heard in a while.  Why anyone would do that is totally baffling

 

SkiMD produces all side edge angles at 3.0 degrees. SLand GS skis are produced at 4.0 degrees. More factories are realizing that it’s worth the hassle to recalibrate side edge machinery to this parameter. Why? Because shaped skis are able to achieve higher tip angles with greater leverage than straight skis. As a result, skis with less than 3 degrees of side edge will have a tendency to chatter and become duller quicker as a result of skidding more and cutting less. Never let anyone try to convince you that this is too radical, or that it gets duller quicker. No information exists to support that theory. The difference in material removal between a 3 or 4 degree side edge angle is truly minimal over a side edge height of 2-2.5 millimeters. However, the difference in performance when asking your skis to do what you want is profound. If your skis or snowboard chatter when tipped on edge, it means your side edge angle is incorrect. 

 

Above From Mike DeSantis who used to post here as Skidoc

 

Here are his credentials!  So don't listen to me! I know nothing!

 

Mike de Santis founded, owns and operates SkiMD. His experience is unsurpassed at the retail level, allowing the beginner through expert or racing participant access to factory level service. 20 years of continual development has created an ideal refinishing system that works for everyone. 

While at Volkl, Mike was overwhelmed with the negative feedback on the company website from consumers in regards to their first “shop stonegrind.” The retail effort back then and now continue to be apathetic regarding the proper restoration and installation of tuning parameters. Realizing the need for someone in the ski service industry who could consistently deliver the proper finish to shaped skis and snowboards, is what prompted Mike to leave Volkl and develop the SkiMD Refinishing System.

Mike’s extensive background combined with 46 years in the sport of skiing, are instrumental to his success:


  • Graduate Stratton Mountain Ski Academy 79’
  • NCAA competitor UVM Ski Team
  • Physical Education Degree UVM 84’
  • 7 years World Cup Technician/ WC Race Director for Volkl
  • 4 years Product Development Manager for Volkl
  • Member Volkl International Test Team
  • Lifetime Achievement Award for excellence in the fields of World Cup Service and Product Development for Volkl Skis.
  • Technical service consultant for Volkl, Blizzard, Dynastar and Elan skis



Mike created his own proprietary finishes for top athletes such as Hilary Lindh, the 97’ DH World Champion. Kate Pace, the 93’ DH World Champion. Katja Seizinger, the overall World Cup women’s downhill winner many seasons over. Other athletes include Picabo Street, Kristina Koznick, Heidi Voelker, and former U.S. Snowboarding Team athlete Rosy Fletcher, Olympic Bronze medalist. Working in tandem with Volkl Germany, allowed Mike access to some of the very best factory technicians in the world. Combined with deep factory knowledge of ski design and construction, the foundation was built to create a system that has such a broad level of success. This is what truly differentiates SkiMD from all the rest.

post #43 of 75
Whatever.
post #44 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

Whatever.

Yeah..............Whatever!

post #45 of 75
What makes a 1.5 side edge the "dumbest thing you've heard in a while?"

Lots of Atomics come from the factory with a 2.5 side edge. If a client wants to keep them to factory spec I'm happy to oblige.

I'd also be willing to bet most people tuning to 2 or 3 degrees on the side edge end up half a degree to a full degree below where they want to be due to improper pressure and use of their guides.

I base this on a loooooooong history of verifying bevels for athletes and coaches that have the right tools and knowledge, and find this to be the case the majority of the time.
post #46 of 75
Lots of Head skis used to come from the factory with base bevels of 2-5 degrees. Then people wonder and moronic shops wonder, why people didnt like the skis. They were screwed up at the factory The shops just assume the skiers are idiots.
if you were measuring bevels kudos to you but you're in the vast minority.

Sure things end up differently then desired but setting 1.5 as a goal makes little sense. Aman is right. You should be anle to slideslip all day with whatever edges. If not, the skis not flat or you have too little bas bevel for your skills or boots. That would be going under 0.5 degree though. Side edge has nothing to do with sliding.

Aman is right a 3 deg makes a performance difference. I spent a lot of time last sason on a pair of Kastle Fx's that came with a 2 deg. I just left it since i used it mainly in softer snow. Eventually went to three and it was a far better ski.
post #47 of 75
I'll get there when I get there. No amount of nagging is going to change that. We all agree if you ski powder you can't tell what the tune is. I might actually care this coming season, but certainly not last season. I skied a 1/1 for over 40 years, including skiing in the mid Atlantic. Only reason I started changing things was the skis coming in with the slightly bigger angle, 1.5. I don't have to rush to change what I'm used to if I don't feel like it. Why this is such an issue for people that I prefer to do it my way is beyond me.
post #48 of 75
We dont care what you ski on, no one's nagging, just suggesting you'd actually like it more. its only an issue as an answer to the OP. Its just fact that a 1and 2 or even better a 1 and 3 would be far better for the mid atlantic than a 1 and 1.
post #49 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post

We dont care what you ski on, no one's nagging, just suggesting you'd actually like it more. its only an issue as an answer to the OP. Its just fact that a 1and 2 or even better a 1 and 3 would be far better for the mid atlantic than a 1 and 1.

Thanks Tog. :beercheer:

 

No Atomic have seen in 15 years comes with a 2.5 degree side edge. they are 3 degrees on the money!

post #50 of 75
Sure they're all supposed to be 3 degrees, but it doesn't change the fact that lots of atomics out of the wrapper are actually 2.5. Some are 4, especially in the tip and tail.
post #51 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothRides View Post

Sure they're all supposed to be 3 degrees, but it doesn't change the fact that lots of atomics out of the wrapper are actually 2.5. Some are 4, especially in the tip and tail.

And you are measuring this how?

 

None of mine have every been anything but 3 on the money! Never seen anything but an accurate 3 tip to tail....................side edge we are talking?

post #52 of 75
Atomic makes lots of skis. What skis are y'all talking about?
post #53 of 75
Yes talking side edge.

Verified with SVST bevel meter first, confirmed once I begin filing or after first pass with my disc edger and I'm only removing material on the upper half of the edge if under 3 or the bottom half if its an area that's over beveled.

As for which Atomics, I'm referring exclusively to race skis.

I have athletes with multiple pairs of the same exact ski for a given discipline where when they come out of the wrapper one pair is basically ready to ski and the other needs a full tune, and often both need a full tune.
post #54 of 75
If we are talking base edge, they are often 1.5-2 degrees from the factory and need a grind before they hit the snow.

I would say if your skis are spot on out of the wrapper you got lucky
post #55 of 75
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post

All this stuff about "dry snow" etc and how its different is wives tales. I assure you your snow is not drier than in Utah. The wordt is grippy manmade with weird refreeze cycles and fresh hard manmade. If its grippy, a small base bevel, 0.5 or less, feels like the ski is glued to the snow. ( a concave base feels that way also- like it won't release into the turn)

Well we certainly don't have dry snow that's for sure. Japan was far drier and they had a lot more powder when i went over there. When i quizzed that shop who quoted the cheap service prices on our conditions he said:

 
Quote:
Ruapehu's conditions would be best described as wet snow, so use a universal wax.
 
Use 88 on the side edges.
 

Have a shop (like ours) set your base edges, and then you maintain side edges with file(s), and base with a diamond stone.

I'd agree that it can be wet particularly down low. Up the top as i mentioned the mornings are generally at least a bit icy until theres a bit of softening and a bit of carving to cut it up - and the boarders dont scrape it down to ice again ;)

 

We get a random amount of rain throughout the season when a low from the south collides with a high from the northern tropics, the freezing level shoots above 2000m, which rains on our valuable snow base! Eg we're getting a terrible 50mm (2 inches) of rain this weekend and showers on and off for the past few days. This seasons a bit of a bummer, im hoping for an august dump but it's australia whos won it this year for sure. These sorts of conditions for the past two months have given them the best snow in years from what i hear

 

(23rd June)


And this is whats happening now, a month later:


So we're getting blown away, then rained on - You should be able to spot NZ hiding in the bottom right corner there!

 

Anyway back to the topic at hand - Nice reading some discussion and useful info on the angles! It sounds like 1 degree base and a 3 degree final edge is what i'm after. I think i'll stay away from 0.5 degree base at the moment and give that a shot in the future when i'm more able.

I'll just have to decide whether i want the shop to set that 3 degree edge for me, or to set it to 2, have a go at that, and then i'll take it to 3 myself. I'll be careful i promise!

 

Anyway i've been very slack on ordering other my bits and pieces, partly delayed by the fact i wasn't sure on the bevels. Tognar or RaceWax like the two places to look at, given they both do 230V irons. Haven't seen them in other places.

 

edit: Looks like i'm going with Tognar. Ouch. $40 Shipping. And i just realised racewax had 25% off at the start of this month and tognar 20% off at the start of our season. Argh. Ah well, at least all this will last a while. :throws money at screen:


Edited by eXDee - 7/31/14 at 5:36am
post #56 of 75
Check out www.bongous.com. - They're a freight forwarder. You order stuff in the US with an address at their facility. They consolodate it and then ship it out. I shipped skis to Belgium and they were a small fraction of what UPS and FedEx were.

I find it hard to beloeve you can not get tuning gear in Nz or at least Australia. Shops use this stuff, cant they order for you?
post #57 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothRides View Post

Yes talking side edge.

Verified with SVST bevel meter first, confirmed once I begin filing or after first pass with my disc edger and I'm only removing material on the upper half of the edge if under 3 or the bottom half if its an area that's over beveled.

As for which Atomics, I'm referring exclusively to race skis.

I have athletes with multiple pairs of the same exact ski for a given discipline where when they come out of the wrapper one pair is basically ready to ski and the other needs a full tune, and often both need a full tune.

 

 

In 15 years of Atomic skis I have never had an Atomic RACE SKI OUT OF SPEC OF 1/3. Except 1 pair of Slaloms which were base high under foot due to incorrect pressingwhen manufactured. They were replace on warranty. Both my sons were sponsored by Atomic

 

 

I use an SVST Bevel meter. My guess is the discrepancy is 2 fold. 

 

#1, you measured before cutting the sidewall back and that cause an inaccurate reading (less bevel indicated)  

 

#2, Some skis have an aluminum or Titanal component the upper edge and a magnet will not stick. 

 

As far as base bevel goes, After discussing this in depth with the Designer and manufacturer of the Bevelometer (at SVST) they recommend measuring base bevel with the ski in the vise sidewall/edge up base facing you. And then hang the Bevelometer with the long portion down the face of the base. Measuring the base flat pointing upwards  gives an inaccurate reading.

post #58 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothRides View Post

Yes talking side edge.


Verified with SVST bevel meter first, confirmed once I begin filing or after first pass with my disc edger and I'm only removing material on the upper half of the edge if under 3 or the bottom half if its an area that's over beveled.


As for which Atomics, I'm referring exclusively to race skis.


I have athletes with multiple pairs of the same exact ski for a given discipline where when they come out of the wrapper one pair is basically ready to ski and the other needs a full tune, and often both need a full tune.
Quote:
 
In 15 years of Atomic skis I have never had an Atomic RACE SKI OUT OF SPEC OF 1/3. Except 1 pair of Slaloms which were base high under foot due to incorrect pressingwhen manufactured. They were replace on warranty. Both my sons were sponsored by Atomic


I use an SVST Bevel meter. My guess is the discrepancy is 2 fold. 

#1, you measured before cutting the sidewall back and that cause an inaccurate reading (less bevel indicated)  

#2, Some skis have an aluminum or Titanal component the upper edge and a magnet will not stick. 

As far as base bevel goes, After discussing this in depth with the Designer and manufacturer of the Bevelometer (at SVST) they recommend measuring base bevel with the ski in the vise sidewall/edge up base facing you. And then hang the Bevelometer with the long portion down the face of the base. Measuring the base flat pointing upwards  gives an inaccurate reading.
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post #59 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post
 

 

In 15 years of Atomic skis I have never had an Atomic RACE SKI OUT OF SPEC OF 1/3. Except 1 pair of Slaloms which were base high under foot due to incorrect pressingwhen manufactured. They were replace on warranty. Both my sons were sponsored by Atomic

 

 

I use an SVST Bevel meter. My guess is the discrepancy is 2 fold. 

 

#1, you measured before cutting the sidewall back and that cause an inaccurate reading (less bevel indicated)  

 

#2, Some skis have an aluminum or Titanal component the upper edge and a magnet will not stick. 

 

As far as base bevel goes, After discussing this in depth with the Designer and manufacturer of the Bevelometer (at SVST) they recommend measuring base bevel with the ski in the vise sidewall/edge up base facing you. And then hang the Bevelometer with the long portion down the face of the base. Measuring the base flat pointing upwards  gives an inaccurate reading.

 

A-man, while I generally agree with you on most points, I have not had the same experience or luck you have had with Atomic skis. And I'm not maliciously going after Atomic (I love Atomic skis), because it's a problem with all manufacturers, but the fact remains the same, and it's neither of the problems you mention above, it's just not correct from the factory, and its not really a big deal, because its an easily correctable problem. 

 

As far as measuring before cutting back the sidewall, this can cause an inaccurate reading, but its rare anywhere but the tips and tails where the sidewall hasn't been shaped and is still very square. The majority of the sidewall usually matches the edge angle because they are cut together during production. Also, many of these skis are capped construction, where the sidewall is even less of a factor, especially in the tip and tail. Furthermore, if the original reading was incorrect, as soon as the sidewalls are properly shaped and sanded you would see a consistent cut on the edge with your file guide or disc grinder so long as they are calibrated and used properly. This is not the case as I explained in my previous post. Only after resetting the bevel do I have an accurate reading with my bevel meter, thus confirming the original bevel was incorrect.

 

To your second point, the magnet not sticking to the upper edge has no effect on the magnet sticking to the rest of the edge, which is what matters.

 

Admittedly, I have never measured a base bevel with the ski base facing toward me and the bevel meter hanging from the top, but I just tested it out on multiple skis, at multiple points along the edge, and get the exact same reading as when it is used with the base up and the ski laying flat. I also picked a ski up off the vise while holding the bevel meter in place and rotated the ski as much as possible in both directions and saw absolutely no change in the reading. The magnet sticks to the edge, and the plane of the guide is flat against the base, there's no way it will change based on ski position. 

 

I'm glad you've had great luck with your Atomic race skis. Could it be that you were getting better skis because your boys were sponsored athletes? I don't know, but I'd imagine they're more likely to get hand picked skis?

 

Also, how many pairs of skis were you tuning and checking bevels on in those 15 years from the wrapper? I'm sharing my experience based on hundreds of skis every year where I'm the first to work on them after the factory. And I'm not talking about elite level race stock only, I'm talking about everything from U8/10 athletes on up, and in every discipline. Again, I don't think it's an Atomic problem specifically, and they are better than most, but still very far from consistent. At least their bases are usually flat and the grinds pretty clean, which is more than I can say about most companies. 

post #60 of 75

It seems Atomic knew better than to send their junk skis to A-man.  Maybe others weren't so lucky?

I have had good luck with factory skis.  My Kästles, Völkls, Volant's and Fischers were all good to go, although the shop may have sharpened the Fischers. 

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EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Tuning, Maintenance and Repairs › A thanks, and some more advice wanted