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Skier weight limit (low end) for Look Pivot 18 Ski Binding

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 

The 16 year-old boy is agitating (and truthfully is in need of) new skis for the upcoming season.  He's a very strong skier -- basically skis anything in-bounds at Colorado/Wyoming resorts and has done some couloirs in the local mountains this spring.  He's also 6'3", 170 pounds (sans gear) and probably still growing.  There are good prices to be had on-line for Look Pivot 18 bindings.  I think these would be an excellent binding for him in principle, but his present weight would put him near the low end of the DIN range (8-18).  My expectation is that over the next couple of years he'll put on another inch or two and 10 to 20 pounds (or more) at which time I'm sure the higher DIN range would be appropriate.  I'd like some advice as to wether the Pivot 18 would be "safe" for him to use this coming ski season (will mount them to 4FRNT Devastators, 194 cm), guessing that he'll be looking at no more than 175 lbs by the time he's actually on them.  Thanks!

post #2 of 17

Need his BSL (Boot Sole Length) to accurately see what his DIN will be. My guess at 6'3 and 170LB he has a BSL larger than a 310 which just gets him to a 8 DIN. Changes are he won't be an 8-9 DIN, if you want to pick the bindings up for future use, do so but I think it will probably be too much for him now. These could end up running you more $$ compared to a Pivot 14 and your insurance deductible. 

 

On th topic of him growing more..do NOT repeat DO NOT do the same buying plan with boots..get him boots for THIS season...NOT to grow into. 

post #3 of 17
Thread Starter 

His BSL is 326 at the moment and I'm rabid about boot fit, so not to worry -- they fit now and if he grows out of 'em, he'll be in a pair that fits at that point in time.  Good advice, thanks!

 

A question for educational purposes: my weight, height, skiing ability and BSL place me at a DIN of 8.5 (both calculators and ski techs have come to the same conclusion).  From what I gathered reading some old threads, even though my DIN is theoretically in the range of the Pivot 18, no one would recommend them -- why is that?  Is there any empirical evidence that being at the low end of a binding's DIN is any different than being in the middle of the DIN range of a binding?  If there is, then what's the point of having a designation for a DIN range that's "unusable"?

post #4 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by pthor View Post
 

His BSL is 326 at the moment and I'm rabid about boot fit, so not to worry -- they fit now and if he grows out of 'em, he'll be in a pair that fits at that point in time.  Good advice, thanks!

 

A question for educational purposes: my weight, height, skiing ability and BSL place me at a DIN of 8.5 (both calculators and ski techs have come to the same conclusion).  From what I gathered reading some old threads, even though my DIN is theoretically in the range of the Pivot 18, no one would recommend them -- why is that?  Is there any empirical evidence that being at the low end of a binding's DIN is any different than being in the middle of the DIN range of a binding?  If there is, then what's the point of having a designation for a DIN range that's "unusable"?

 

With a Pivot 18 DIN's range on 8-18 SOME feel you don't want to be at the extreme end go the DIN window. Personally, I would sooner see you at the low end on this binding 8.5 than the top end where the spring is compressed. If you put your proposed set up on a calibration bench it will function properly. There are a few bindings, more on the lower ranges that did not function properly at the low end. Setting yours at an 8.5 will work. I would love to see Look/Rossi reintroduce the 15 DIN version on this binding, it has a more usable 6-15 DIN range. 

post #5 of 17

Why not the 14?

post #6 of 17

I would have no problem using a high DIN binding at the lowest setting on it's range.  You might get faster reset with more spring pressure using the binding in the middle of ITS range, but it would still perform better than most lower DIN bindings set to the same number at the beginning of its range.

post #7 of 17
There are some discussions going on that suggest that Looks can go lower provided that they are tested.

Just commenting. Personally I won't and would defer to the advise of Phil.
post #8 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgoat View Post
 

Why not the 14?

Same question. 5-14 vs 6-15? 

post #9 of 17

I had a set of the P14's and now have P15's, the difference is in the TOE piece.  One is Plastic the other is Metal along with how the toe releases.  Another difference between Pivots and P series is the lower DIN setting on the Pivots, at the top end they are the same.  P15 and P18's  are higher at the bottom end only 8 and 10 respectively.

post #10 of 17
Look up your son's DIN rating. There are online charts. You need to factor in his boot sole length, height, weight, and skiing ability. If his DIN falls within the Pivot 18's DIN range then they'll be fine for him. If he is near or below the low end, get a different pair of bindings.

It is recommended to have bindings for which your DIN is near the middle of the range. If you are near the bottom or top (say, a 11 on a 5-12 DIN binding, or a 8.5 on a 8-18 DIN binding) it will be less accurate and not ideal. At 6'3", 170 pounds, and 326 BSL, an online calculator puts him at a DIN of 7 as a type 3 skier (the highest of the three levels, i.e. an advanced skier) or a DIN of 8.5 as a 3+ (expert). That said, he is near the higher end of the height and weight range which could push his DIN up a notch or so, but he is also near the high end of the BSL range which would put his DIN down a little.

If he is an average advanced-expert skier, i.e. someone who skis mostly blacks and double blacks, he should probably have a DIN in the 7-8 range. If he is an expert skier (i.e. jumping off cliffs and that kind of stuff), he'd probably want something in the 8-10 range. Better to start lower and raise it as needed.

I would recommend the Pivot 14 instead if he wants the Pivots, or else the Salomon STH2 16s (those would be my first choice) or Rossignol FKS 140. Sure, the 18-DIN Pivot 18s might make him feel like a pro, they might let him impress his friends, but is it really worth getting a broken leg for that? For comparison, I am about the same weight and BSL as your son, I ski very aggressively (that means jumping off 20-30 foot cliffs), I ski lines that get skied by only a few people per year, and I only have a DIN of 9 or 10. When I crashed a 30-something foot cliff huck with DINs at 10 neither ski released, I'm putting them back down to 9. There is really no reason your son needs the 18s unless he is an extremely high level skier (i.e. borderline pro level), the 14s or STH2 16s would be better options for him. For comparison, the 14s have a DIN range of 5-14, putting him right around the middle, so they would be perfect for him.
post #11 of 17

Guessing he is ++ on the DIN setting, but that is a guess from your description. I ski the p18 at the low end of the range and I think the concerns on being at the low end of the range are pooh.  Bought because of the toe as opposed to p14 (saw there will be a p12 this year, same toe as the p14).  This is a binding to pass on from ski to ski.  Everything Phil said is spot on.

post #12 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sh4d0w View Post

It is recommended to have bindings for which your DIN is near the middle of the range. If you are near the bottom or top (say, a 11 on a 5-12 DIN binding, or a 8.5 on a 8-18 DIN binding) it will be less accurate and not ideal.

even though I agree it gives you a bigger margin, as long as it passes the test and it's releasing at the right DIN, it's as accurate as any other binding, 8 DIN release is the same as long as it passes the test on any binding be it a 8 - 16 or a 5 - 13 binding, although it might be the case that a 8 - 16 won't release at 8, but if it does, it's as accurate as any other binding!
post #13 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfa81 View Post

even though I agree it gives you a bigger margin, as long as it passes the test and it's releasing at the right DIN, it's as accurate as any other binding, 8 DIN release is the same as long as it passes the test on any binding be it a 8 - 16 or a 5 - 13 binding, although it might be the case that a 8 - 16 won't release at 8, but if it does, it's as accurate as any other binding!
Yet an 8 on an 8-16 is more likely to release like a 9 than an 8 on a 5-13 is, at least that's my understanding.
post #14 of 17

Consider the PX15 while not the Pivot heel in the true sense, the heel is very similar without the pivot.  Toe is the same as the old Pivot 15's

 

http://www.artechski.com/Dynastar-Look-2014-PX-15-Max-Flex-Race-Ski-Bindings.aspx#.U9RXkq10yUk&gsc.tab=0

post #15 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschoolskier View Post
 

Consider the PX15 while not the Pivot heel in the true sense, the heel is very similar without the pivot.  Toe is the same as the old Pivot 15's

 

http://www.artechski.com/Dynastar-Look-2014-PX-15-Max-Flex-Race-Ski-Bindings.aspx#.U9RXkq10yUk&gsc.tab=0

PX 15 for $119 at Level 9

post #16 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschoolskier View Post
 

Consider the PX15 while not the Pivot heel in the true sense, the heel is very similar without the pivot.  Toe is the same as the old Pivot 15's

 

http://www.artechski.com/Dynastar-Look-2014-PX-15-Max-Flex-Race-Ski-Bindings.aspx#.U9RXkq10yUk&gsc.tab=0

Looks like a Rossi Axial heel. Still pretty solid IMO.

post #17 of 17

Better of the two axial heel variations with the metal toe which leans towards retention as opposed to the plastic on all of the Look bindings of 14 and below.  Much, much easier to switch brakes with the axial bindings.  L9 is a good price, but the 80 brake width means $ will need to be spent there.

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