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Racing With A Video Recorder

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 

Helmet mounted cameras are not permitted for use in USSA sanctioned events I believe this is also true in Canada for NON FIS events.  This is a rule against helmet mounted cameras not cameras in general. I suspect it derives from a concern with the adhesive camera mount degrading the plastic of the helmet.

My questions: Are Cameras mounted on the boot top or elsewhere (goggle strap for example) other than on the helmet legal to race with? Is it legal for a competitor to video the race course during inspection?

Please provide Chapter and Verse if you contend they are forbidden.

post #2 of 29
Per the inspection question. Do you mean can they ski with a video camera? Because clearly that would be a no. Because they can't ski the course. Not sure how much use a camera held from non-skiing position would be.

As to racing with it on the boot, can't find a thing about that. Seems like a lot of snow would be getting kicked up and you could lose the camera.
post #3 of 29

I've done it a lot in non USSA events - Mountain Dew, NASTAR, Senior Games, etc.  Haven't done it in a Masters Race and not sure if it would be allowed.

 

For giggles, at last year's CT Senior Championships I ran the course a second time with a chest mounted GoPro on my 178 cm SIgi Grabner GS snowboard. 

 

post #4 of 29
Thread Starter 

Not skiing the course during inspectin is a somewhat elastic rule in my experience. I was thinking of the ski slowly through a couple of gates and stop for a second or two then ski a couple more gates type of inspectiom otherwise known as "Austrian Inspection" or a DH training run.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

Per the inspection question. Do you mean can they ski with a video camera? Because clearly that would be a no. Because they can't ski the course. Not sure how much use a camera held from non-skiing position would be.

As to racing with it on the boot, can't find a thing about that. Seems like a lot of snow would be getting kicked up and you could lose the camera.

A camera worn during a DH training run would provide some good images.

I saw a lot of footage in "The Thin Line" shot from either a ski mounted or boot top camera that was fantastic.

post #5 of 29

During training runs I've experimented a lot using chest mount, helmet mount both forwards and backwards on both board and skis.  Here's a sample.  Note I mis-identify a chest mount as a helmet mount at the 2:12 mark.

 

 

Here's an interesting perspective.  It took me a while to sync the two videos.

 

post #6 of 29

Hey Pat, is that the same course they run for Nastar Eastern Regionals? I'm definitely interested in doing it this year.

post #7 of 29

Cameras in general are not permitted. Violates inspection rules. I've seen kids get pulled for using a handheld while slipping a course. I'm sure they wouldn't give a shit in a masters or nastar race though.

post #8 of 29
Thread Starter 

I haven't seen that rule written anywhere can you give me the source so I can look it up?

post #9 of 29

i've paceset master races with cameras all over my body lol
but if you want sweet footage training is the way to go.

post #10 of 29

post #11 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speeder View Post
 

I haven't seen that rule written anywhere can you give me the source so I can look it up?

 

It's an unwritten rule that is generally accepted everywhere. Unfair advantage to those with cameras over those that do not.

post #12 of 29
Thread Starter 

Forgive me for saying so but only the written rules have to be followed. Can I conclude then that there is no actual written numbered and quotable rule in the USSA or FIS Sporting Regulations prohibiting the use of cameras during inspection? I have not been able to find one and one has not been quoted to me here.

It equally might be said that Fluoro wax gives competitors an advantage over those who don't have it or can't afford it but there is no "unwritten"rule phohibiting its use either.

In my first post I also asked if non helmet mounted cameras were legal to wear durinh a race ie oh a boot top or goggle strap or even built into the goggles themselves?

post #13 of 29

Article 222.5
 

Quote:
In principle unnatural or artificial aids which modify the performance of the competitors and/or constitute a technical correction of the individual's physical predisposition to a defective performance, as well as competition equipment which impact the health of the competitors or increase the risk of accidents are to be excluded

So most likely no.
I'll keep looking in the rule books

 

USSA

Quote:
 

9. HELMET-MOUNTED CAMERAS:
Helmet-mounted cameras are not permitted for use at USSA non-FIS events. [606.4, 707, 807, 907, 1007, and additional USSA and FIS regulations.]

Athletes who have personalized their helmets, e.g. camera mounts, bling, stickers, etc., are allowed to start. 

Quote:

Helmets with spoilers or edges that stick out are not permitted.  

post #14 of 29
But he's asking about other mounts, and aside from it being a discussion question for one of the officials courses, I haven't found coverage. (There was no answer in the item I found.)
post #15 of 29

FIS is very animate about aerodynamic things, bumps, spoilers, and so on. 
So, putting two and two together, and the fact that Vonn was told not to ski with her go-pro, I would say no chance unless you  are a pacesetter. which they do already for TV purposes.
As far as recording during inspection I haven't found anything specific yet.

post #16 of 29


I need to double check the rules, my annual referee refresher is coming up in a couple of weeks.  However, while I don't have my rule book to hand, there was also a rule introduced last season that required knee braces and similar to be covered up or worn under clothing so there are no protrusions.  It may be broody worded so that a camera would also be included under this

post #17 of 29
Since you can't sideslip or follow the course path during inspection, I can't see why you'd record it. Approved media are allowed to forerun the course with a helmet cam. Racers are not allowed to have an attached helmet cam, but I can find nothing precluding a chest mount. However, they don't want protrusions, and the type of mount might come under that guideline. I would think it would if it's strapped to your ankle, not so sure about chest.
post #18 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

Since you can't sideslip or follow the course path during inspection, I can't see why you'd record it. Approved media are allowed to forerun the course with a helmet cam. Racers are not allowed to have an attached helmet cam, but I can find nothing precluding a chest mount. However, they don't want protrusions, and the type of mount might come under that guideline. I would think it would if it's strapped to your ankle, not so sure about chest.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzamp View Post
 

Article 222.5

Quote:
In principle unnatural or artificial aids which modify the performance of the competitors and/or constitute a technical correction of the individual's physical predisposition to a defective performance, as well as competition equipment which impact the health of the competitors or increase the risk of accidents are to be excluded

 

post #19 of 29
Well, jzamp, not sure they can say that a chest mount of a flat camera is going to be a danger. On the other hand, not sure about the view it would have. I'm sure that size, shape, type of harness, would all come into play.
post #20 of 29

it's a bump, it's not covered by race fabric and it poses a danger in case of a crash (fist sized object is front of the heart --> commotio cordis). I'm sure it's a no go. 

I mean this is the FIS we are talking about! LOL
 

post #21 of 29

There's few things to consider, and they really shouldn't be mixed together. About Vonn no go for camera, it's pretty much clear. Like it or not, TV rights for WC races are sold... for A LOT of money. No video cameras (coaches are exception, but they know the drill and they know what they can do with videos) without paid rights are allowed. It really is as simple as that. That's main rule, and I would say it's priority, even above security issue. But that goes for WC, WCH and Olympics races, not for some local (even FIS) race.

Next thing is really security. When you crash, you really don't want to have something protruding attached to your head, your chest or even to your leg. Once you crash at 100km/h snow is rock solid and having camera mounted on your chest can really kill you in worse case, even if it doesn't look like this. Just put chest mount on, without camera as it's not worth scratching it, and just lean to wall hitting wall with chest mount. I can bet you will feel difference between this, and leaning to wall without chest mount. Now imagine you did this at 100km/h, and then you will see chest mount can be dangerous ;)

post #22 of 29
Thread Starter 

If the camera was mounted on the ski then it would pose no greater threat to the skier than the binding ordinarily would during a crash.

post #23 of 29
It could become detached and pose a risk to other skiers if left on the course. And yes it had happened to me in training so it's possible.
post #24 of 29
Thread Starter 

I don't think risks to spectators from detached equipment enters into the equasion otherwise we'd still be using safety straps.

post #25 of 29
But if it fell off and wasn't noticed, it's definitely a threat to the next racer.
post #26 of 29
Umm wouldn't that cause an imbalance on the ski.
post #27 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speeder View Post
 

If the camera was mounted on the ski then it would pose no greater threat to the skier than the binding ordinarily would during a crash.


and of course there is zero danger to the skier should the camera become detached from the ski at 50mph.......;)

post #28 of 29
Thread Starter 

OK I guess we've beaten the GOPRO option to death and unless one were to cite a safety concern from detached cameras lying on the racing line there is no rule against racing with a camera mounted somewhere other than on the helmet. There are several goggles available that have HD video recorders built in, and for the most part they look no different from regular goggles, wearing a pair of these in a race would therefore be legal, am I correct?

post #29 of 29

as long as there are no TV rights yes

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