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Carving on Ice - Page 4

post #91 of 105

That looks like a backwards Schlopy drill.  Could encourage upper body rotation, dontcha think?

post #92 of 105

I agree with LiquidFeet.  Both drills could encourage upper rotation.  It  will be something to try this season if I remember.  

 

Hank

post #93 of 105
Yup , that's why I posted them biggrin.gif

zenny
post #94 of 105

I've found that I can get my slalom skis to hold an edge if I offset more; Lean and put more of your weight towards the inside of your turn, keeping you more upright. This puts more force on the edge and less into the turn (make sense? Instead of the momentum keeping you up and leaning over into the turn, stay upright and put pressure into the edge). If the ice is really extreme I offset more, leaning in the complete opposite direction. Along with well-tuned edges, I am not able to slip out, no matter how sketchy the surface.

 

 

Staying upright in slalom is not a bad idea in general, either. The less upper body movement, the better.

post #95 of 105

Zentune,

 

Just out of curiosity it does appear in the video that he is a bit back in his stance and sliding the tails ever so slightly, a slightly forward stance would be better and more balanced wouldn't it? 

 

The second issue would be that he leans slightly up hill to much which on ice would cause further cause more slippage on ice.

 

Can you confirm if I am correct or seeing things wrong.

 

Thanks,.

 

G

post #96 of 105

  Oldschool,

 

  Ummm, where to start? :D  There's several things going on here in the stacked skiing video (I call that "cautious skiing"). Mainly though there is a lack of adequate separation both in a frontal and transverse sense and also too little, too late on the inside leg flexing and tipping IMO, of course. I don't think getting more forward is gonna change much in this case :). Not enough dynamic balancing here for truly hard snow/ice.

 

   zenny 

post #97 of 105

You can drive the turn with the upper body but on very hard snow you will be loosing the end of every turn.  It can also be a poor substitute for failing to ski  with your feet.  This video is happening on pretty forgiving snow.     The rotation is also going to create problems in the transitions and there will be a loss of edge angle at the apex of the turn.    YM

post #98 of 105

Thanks Z,

 

It was a leading question :D to better describe it than I for those that may not see it. 

 

Cheers,

 

G

post #99 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by yogaman View Post
 

You can drive the turn with the upper body but on very hard snow you will be loosing the end of every turn.  It can also be a poor substitute for failing to ski  with your feet.  This video is happening on pretty forgiving snow.     The rotation is also going to create problems in the transitions and there will be a loss of edge angle at the apex of the turn.    YM

 

     Zactly. Too much following of the skis and too much pressuring in transition. Transitions make (or break!) the turn(s)!!! Let go now (trannys) to hold on later (apex) :)

 

     zenny

post #100 of 105

I see him allowing his upper body to follow the direction of the turn rather than driving the turn with his upper body. He is very specific about not allowing the shoulders to get ahead of the lower body. He just isn't going into the exaggerated counter and separation that has become so popular,

 

Just how I see it.

post #101 of 105

  I posted this before in this thread but I think people missed it. The difference in edge hold on the injected snow between Marlies Schild and the rest is stark. Why? Because she effectively regulates the ROM of her joints and therefore the pressure of the ski/snow interface. 

 

    http://www.dartfish.tv/Player.aspx?CR=p1490c3372m69893

 

     zenny

post #102 of 105

With Schild there is a nice air gap on the transitions along with a defined and gentle set onto and off the edges that allow them to bite.  This is very clear by the lack of spray that she shows on the onset of the turn.

 

Nice

post #103 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGolfAnalogy View Post
 

I see him allowing his upper body to follow the direction of the turn rather than driving the turn with his upper body. He is very specific about not allowing the shoulders to get ahead of the lower body. He just isn't going into the exaggerated counter and separation that has become so popular,

 

Just how I see it.

I mentioned this in another post but...how much counter acting and upper and lower body separation should we have?   See the "wall"  position from USSA, US ski  team.    I know one long time race coach friend of mine is famous for saying "put your back on the gate".  Meaning of course after the apex of the turn while you are finishing the turn.  YM

post #104 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by yogaman View Post
 

I mentioned this in another post but...how much counter acting and upper and lower body separation should we have?   See the "wall"  position from USSA, US ski  team.    I know one long time race coach friend of mine is famous for saying "put your back on the gate".  Meaning of course after the apex of the turn while you are finishing the turn.  YM


This is something that I was taught back in 1968 already when I was 4 years old, however the phrase was shoulders square to the hill (a ski pole across the rump makes for a good memory tool).  What is interesting is that the fundamental technique at the top level still follows the that old method just with better edge angles and such.  The feel and soft set has still remained the same to get the initial edge bite.  With the older straight skis you got some slip no matter what you did, with the shaped skis you a nice carved turn provided you let the skis do their job.

 

The difference be the Advance Stacked video and Marlies Schild clip is that in the advanced video he pulls the turn with his shoulders (or as I call it pushes with the bum) which causes tail slide towards the end of the turn (this is what caused a pole across the rump back in the day).

 

If I was to guess this error is likely this biggest problem to correct in most skiers, which is why ice or hard pack is so greatly feared.  With soft snow that little bit of pull (or push) makes the turns easy, on hard it just spins you out and most cases cause the skier to stiffen and further make the problem worse.

 

Look at the top skiers and watch the shoulders and edges.  Stenmark, Tomba, Klammer, Ligety, Maier, Schild and so on.  Regardless of vintage the base fundamental is the same which is why they are at the top.

 

I not saying that this the only method, just understanding the why and how allows one to make the choices for the best results possible regardless of ability and conditions.  Knowing what to do when,  just improves your skill regardless of speed or pitch.

 

For those that are up on the terminology please forgive the lack its usage.

post #105 of 105

I just spent time gone through all four page of the posting on this thread.  Thank you all so much for your help as good coaching there!. I am keeping all this in mind for the new skiing season

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