or Connect
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › General Skiing Discussion › Small plane just crashed at Loveland
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Small plane just crashed at Loveland - Page 2

post #31 of 39

:(

post #32 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronism View Post
 

 

So, from the perspective of a pilot, is there a good reason not to climb to altitude before entering the mountains if the flight plan was Broomfield to Moab? I just can't imagine a pilot wouldn't know about the ridge. More plausible in my eyes that the pilot would have been aware of the ridge, but didn't realize how close he was, though GPS is pretty universal in aircraft these days...

 

No good reason, IMHO. A previous post said they were from Ohio, so maybe inexperience in mountain flying and effects of density altitude.

 

I'm not a pilot, so I don't really understand the mindset, but to me, I would be very nervous knowing that I needed to clear a ridgeline close to the performance limit of my aircraft. Unless there was a distinct reason not to climb to the safe altitude as soon as possible, I would do it. But I'm not a pilot, so I don't understand the other factors, which could be stuff like excessive fuel consumption, operating the engine at/near maximum throttle for an unsafe period, problems with wind not felt lower into the valley, etc. (Right? I would like to know if any of these are correct)

 

As previously mentioned, density altitude saps a lot of horsepower. If he didn't lean the mixture properly, it would make it worse. No real problem with fuel consumption, operating at max power (which is already low due to the altitude), etc. Winds can be nasty in the mountains, but lower altitude doesn't really help, in fact the primary way of dealing with them is leaving enough altitude and terrain clearance to turn around.

 

I'm really wondering what I am missing, as I doubt the pilot would have stayed in the valley unless there was an advantage to doing so.

 

Or, is it plausible that the plane ran into performance issues and could not climb as anticipated? Say the pilot intended to climb out of the valley well further down in anticipation of that ridgeline, but could not get the plane to climb as expected? Not a whole lot of room in that valley past Georgetown, and the ski area may have been the widest place to attempt to turn back?

 

He may have niot thought through what to expect in the way of performance. Happens a lot with high density altitude. See previous comment on mixture.

post #33 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown View Post
 

Three deaths reported. Sad. Explanation is possibly this ...

 

"According to 9NEWS Aviation Expert Greg Feith, many planes that crash in that area do so because pilots follow the highway, thinking they have a clear path through the mountains. When they come to the Eisenhower Tunnel, they realize they have to turn left or right because they cannot go over the mountain. Feith says small planes do not have enough performance to out-climb the terrain, so the plane can stall out and crash. It is unknown at this time if this is the reason for Monday's crash."

 

I know there is a crash site across I-70, as well. I think there is a memorial there.

That is really sad.  :(

post #34 of 39

yeah it was in 1970, good article a few years ago in 5280 magazine.  One of two planes carrying a football team.

 

http://www.5280.com/magazine/2010/10/the-wichita-plane-crash?page=full 

post #35 of 39
Thread Starter 
post #36 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by job151 View Post
 

yeah it was in 1970, good article a few years ago in 5280 magazine.  One of two planes carrying a football team.

 

http://www.5280.com/magazine/2010/10/the-wichita-plane-crash?page=full 

 

That was a chilling read on many levels.

post #37 of 39
Sorry to hear about it.
Not having enough room to turn happens not just in the mountains I guess. In 2006 Yankees pitcher Corey Lidle crashed his Cirrus SR 20 with a flight instructor on board. They were flying around Manhattan up the East river, north, and made a turn towards Manhattan. They crashed into the 40th floor of a 50 story apartment building.

FAA rules used to allow small planes to fly up the river around Manhattan under 1,100 feet freely- not under Flight controllers. This even 5 years after Sept 11th. There was a pretty large "how stupid is the FAA?" outcry after that so I believe they changed the rules.

At some point, the airspace becomes part of LaGuardia and requires a flight plan with controllers. Lidle and instructor were attempting a 180 degree turn because they couldn't enter that space. Instead of starting the west turn from the far eastern side of the river they started in the middle. That plus a 13 knot cross wind didn't leave them enough space.

This from a Popular Mechanics article. They followed it pretty closely I guess because one of their writers was a pilot who flew that area.
Quote:
Radar data, however, show that prevailing 13-knot winds reduced Lidle’s available width for a 180-degree turn from 1,700 feet to 1,300 feet (the maximum clearance between buildings on either end of the river is 2,100 feet). At Lidle’s airspeed, such a width would have required an extremely sharp turn at a “constant bank angle” of 53 degrees—an aggressive move that the NTSB report implies Lidle could not make, leaving his Cirrus SR-20 “dangerously close to an aerodynamic stall.”
http://www.popularmechanics.com/_mobile/science/4201087


Lidle's wife sued Cirrus saying the plane was at fault. Pretty sure she didn't win but don't know.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/11/nyregion/12crashcnd.html?_r=0
post #38 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by job151 View Post
 

yeah it was in 1970, good article a few years ago in 5280 magazine.  One of two planes carrying a football team.

 

http://www.5280.com/magazine/2010/10/the-wichita-plane-crash?page=full 

 

Worth reading.

post #39 of 39

 

Wow, touching family story.   The detail that the father was a USAF pilot is not one I would have expected.  

 

I also can't help but think about the crash site being maybe a quarter mile from where the avalanche killed five last year.  That was a somber corner on Loveland Pass as I drove by this year.  It now, sadly, has three more reasons to give pause passing by.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Skiing Discussion
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › General Skiing Discussion › Small plane just crashed at Loveland