or Connect
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Off-Season Sports & The Lighter Side › Cycling › Bike Stoke Picture Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Bike Stoke Picture Thread - Page 30

post #871 of 1389

I'll just throw in my $0.02 worth on frames etc...imho, I don't think there's much in "stiffness" comparisons by seat of the pants.  There's a lot of tire/wheel flex in bikes and I think it's hard to filter out what is frame and what is tire/rim combos.  I suppose if you tried to do a back to back with the same wheels, seat, seat post, bars etc we might be able to draw some more firm conclusions..but a lot of the time the frame stiffness is secondary to the other stuff going on.  Just my opinion, I know some people are adamant that they can tell the difference but I remain skeptical.  :)

post #872 of 1389

^probably quite a bit of truth in that. I wound up pilfering crank, handlebar, stem and wheels/tires from the Merlin, and put them on the Roubaix, so slightly fairer comparison, but still likely to be subjective, since the rides were at least a week apart. (someone should start an argument against demos thread).

 

Something else occurs to me, which is that the Roubaix, being compact frame geometry, has a much longer, unsupported seat post vs the Merlin, which may play a role in isolating the rider from road vibration. Still plenty stiff at the bottom bracket when unseated (at least that's my impression). Tons of other factors I can think of that could influence a rider's impression; tire inflation, saddle choice, and even tape material, freshness/fatigue, PERSONAL BIAS, to name a few.

post #873 of 1389

I think carbon has probably made the biggest change because you have the ability to tailor the stiffness by direction.  A well made carbon frame is pretty efficient.  Also carbon tends to damp the buzz out so it feels a little less rigid perhaps..or at least more comfortable.  But I've heard people talk about how much softer the ride is on the saddle in a steel versus an aluminum frame.  I dunno, there is practically zero compliance in both..the seat stays are well triangulated most of the time..not much flex there.  Some of the curved seat stays..maybe they have some flex..but I dunno, never ridden one, but I still doubt it.  Longer seat post would definitely add to the feeling off softer ride.  Nothing wrong with that!  :)  Stiff where you need it and soft where you don't..that's the ideal I think.

post #874 of 1389

I recently switched from an aluminum frame to a carbon frame and I can definitely say there's less vibration coming through.  For me it was immediately apparent.

post #875 of 1389

Maybe not related, but reminds me of a question frequently asked by customers, especially as bike prices made their meteoric rise through the 90's into the modern era. "Why does someone need to spend $_______ on a bicycle".

 

I think it's one of those leading questions that the asker already thinks they know the answer to, but to me has more than one answer, or should prompt additional questions, maybe in the order of importance, but not necessarily.

 

1. Can you feel an appreciable difference between $_______ and a less expensive bike?

2. Can you afford it?

3. What value to you place on your enjoyment of the sport?

4. Will it significantly improve performance, or enhance your enjoyment?

 

To me it seems obvious that different people are going to have different answers, but in most cases, the asker was likely already convinced that there was only one; a resounding NO. Probably a similar line of questioning frequently occurs in most ski shops.

 

"I'm not trying to win any races". Translation: "I'm not going to pay a lot for this muffler", was another shop favorite.:rolleyes

post #876 of 1389
Quote:
Originally Posted by MT Skull View Post
 

Maybe not related, but reminds me of a question frequently asked by customers, especially as bike prices made their meteoric rise through the 90's into the modern era. "Why does someone need to spend $_______ on a bicycle".

 

I think it's one of those leading questions that the asker already thinks they know the answer to, but to me has more than one answer, or should prompt additional questions, maybe in the order of importance, but not necessarily.

 

1. Can you feel an appreciable difference between $_______ and a less expensive bike?

2. Can you afford it?

3. What value to you place on your enjoyment of the sport?

4. Will it significantly improve performance, or enhance your enjoyment?

 

To me it seems obvious that different people are going to have different answers, but in most cases, the asker was likely already convinced that there was only one; a resounding NO. Probably a similar line of questioning frequently occurs in most ski shops.

 

"I'm not trying to win any races". Translation: "I'm not going to pay a lot for this muffler", was another shop favorite.:rolleyes

 

"Can you afford it?" and "Do you really really want it?" seem like the only two relevant portions, with the number of "reallys" going up or down depending on your financial position.

 

Speaking of which, I have been unwisely perusing bikes online and have decided that I "need" an Ellsworth Epiphany and an Ellsworth Moment to replace my Truth and Dare. I'm sure I don't need to explain why; it's pretty much self explanatory.

post #877 of 1389

If people have money, I encourage them to buy whatever they like!  :)  If they want to spend $200 on a bike I have much more disdain for them. 

post #878 of 1389

bounceswoosh, you're not trying to win any races, are you?;)

 

I know all too well about the need of new equipment (toys). Now back to my tire shopping...

post #879 of 1389
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott43 View Post
 

If people have money, I encourage them to buy whatever they like!  :)  If they want to spend $200 on a bike I have much more disdain for them. 


Disdain is a strong word. I reserve that for people who insist that no bike (or repair for that matter) should cost $200, unless that is the only form of transportation they can afford. If you're riding a bike because of a DUI, or simply because you choose to, whose fault is that?

post #880 of 1389
Quote:
Originally Posted by MT Skull View Post
 


Disdain is a strong word. I reserve that for people who insist that no bike (or repair for that matter) should cost $200, unless that is the only form of transportation they can afford. If you're riding a bike because of a DUI, or simply because you choose to, whose fault is that?


Haha!  That's my line!  "People don't respect cyclists here..they think bikes are for kids, dead-enders or DUI's.."  :D

 

I'm also kinda shocked when parents spend the LEAST amount of money possible on a crappy bike with brakes their kids can't even actuate because they're so cheap and stiff..  I mean..ok..but..  :dunno

post #881 of 1389
Quote:
Originally Posted by MT Skull View Post
 


It might be relative. I remember comparing a kestrel and basso (made by aegis I think) carbon to my first Merlin ('91), and thinking the carbon bikes both felt stiffer, but kinda dead compared to the Ti. (preferred the kestrel to the basso). I was also just coming off the Masi (heaven) and a trek 2500 carbon (noodle), so might have to take that into consideration as my basis for comparison.

 

The 2004 (or 05) Merlin Cyrene was stiffer than the '91 IIRC, and if there's one thing the Roubaix purchase taught me, it was new-found respect for the smooth ride of titanium, while still being relatively stiff at the bottom bracket. Roubaix has a 1cm shorter top tube, 1 degree more relaxed head angle, and at least 2cm higher HB position without the bastardized longer steerer-spacer set-up I had on the Merlin.

 

Combined, Merlin Ti gave me 20+ years of riding pleasure, and owed me nothing. Hopefully now a younger man is experiencing more of the same. OTOH, I saw quite a few Ti Sevens (along with a bunch of other nice bikes) on my ride around Lake Dillon the other day, and can honestly say, did not lust after any.

 

Now if someone had blown by me on a purple Grand Crit...

 

 

Just sold two classics... One beautiful, a Tommassini Tecno (El OS tube set), the other supremely functional and a great ride, Basso Ascot (MS tube set) . I'll have to look for some picts... got to run for now. The Basso was a bit heavy  but was a great riding machine. Always had good race results and luck with her. The Tommassini was a very comfortable long distance bike and very striking, but not as stiff in the bb and a longer head tube than the Basso. Wanna buy a classic track bike? :) 

post #882 of 1389
Quote:
Originally Posted by MT Skull View Post
 

bounceswoosh, you're not trying to win any races, are you?;)

 

I know all too well about the need of new equipment (toys). Now back to my tire shopping...

 

The race to the bottom of my wallet, I suppose ... 

 

I have just adored my two (really three) Ellsworth bikes, so it's hard for me to consider anything else ... the pseudo-three is because I got an XS frame for my XC bike when I was having major wrist issues. Several years later, I felt that the frame was too small. I called them to ask if they had a trade-in policy like Turner. Long story short, they didn't, but were still willing to do a "warranty" deal such that I sent back the old frame and got a very large discount on a new size small frame. Of such little things are loyalties formed.

post #883 of 1389
Quote:
Originally Posted by bounceswoosh View Post
 

 

The race to the bottom of my wallet, I suppose ... 

 

 

That is the best summary of mountain biking I've ever read...

post #884 of 1389
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post
 

 

 

Just sold two classics... One beautiful, a Tommassini Tecno (El OS tube set)

 

Very nice bike.  They have picked up in popularity over the last couple of summers here.  There was one particular Tecno already purchased that I drooled over.  I think it was the orange that mesmerized me.  There are a couple of pretty cool organized steel bike rides that have a decent turnout.  Sorry for being curious but did you decided to go a different direction or just too many bikes to ride? 

post #885 of 1389
Quote:
Originally Posted by bounceswoosh View Post

 

The race to the bottom of my wallet, I suppose ... 

 

Originally Posted by JayT View Post
 

That is the best summary of mountain biking I've ever read...

 

Could say the same about skiing. And many other things.

 

But it needn't be that way.

post #886 of 1389
Quote:
Originally Posted by bounceswoosh View Post
 

 

 

Of such little things are loyalties formed.

Truth.

Fox did something similar when I sent back my TALAS X for factory service. They had discontinued making one of the parts, and so offered a new crash-replacement TALAS RLC ($900 retail I think) for $350. Still wish I'd opted for the 120/150, but that's another story.

 

@Scott43 I think I've dealt with that same parent! I guess I can sympathize to a certain point; kiddo's likely going to outgrow the bike pretty quickly, and if there's not a little brother or sister coming along anytime soon, the expense might be hard to justify. OTOH, many shops have swaps where decent bikes, especially kid's, can be picked up for a song, so that's definitely an option. Of course if you start out with a POS, it's likely to remain a POS, and while I guess I can't blame a parent for not knowing the difference, I never really appreciated being painted as the bad guy for trying to sell something that wasn't a complete POS. Also, as a service mgr, I always tried to make a fair assessment of when a bike was worth repairing, or whether it would be more cost effective to simply replace. Not everybody wanted to accept that advice, but I always felt confident that I wasn't doing the custy any favors by encouraging them to throw more money at a lost cause.

 

In 2007 I took a position at Walmart in hardware dept, but when they found out I could work on bikes, got sent to the back as an assembler. I tried my best to polish those turds, but most remained turds, and I wouldn't recommend a Walmart bike to anyone, with the possible exception of a trike or single-speed w/coaster brake, and even then, you're taking an chance on both quality of bike, and quality of assembly. I also held a part-time job at a nice shop down the street, doing repairs, and an occasional "pro-build". Anyway, it kind of struck me as funny that it was often easier and quicker to assemble a multi-thousand dollar bike, than one costing under $100. It also struck me that neither the small pro-shop, or Walmart had anything to fear from the existence of the other. For the greater part, the Walmart bike customer would never see the value in purchasing a bike elsewhere, and vice versa. Internet's another story, but IMO only for the pro-shop.

post #887 of 1389
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike78 View Post

Very nice bike.  They have picked up in popularity over the last couple of summers here.  There was one particular Tecno already purchased that I drooled over.  I think it was the orange that mesmerized me.  There are a couple of pretty cool organized steel bike rides that have a decent turnout.  Sorry for being curious but did you decided to go a different direction or just too many bikes to ride? 

Just wanted to update... at a certain point, the investment to upgrade the two bikes, even one for that matter, as much as a new bike. You dont 'upgrade' Dura Ace drive trains to 105... it would have been Chorus if anything. if I were to have kept one of the two, it would have been the Basso... it just road stiffer with better power transfer, but it needed the top tobe repainted and the original fork steerer tube replaced. I had 4 bikes: a cannondale commuter, a Bianci Reparto Corsa (campy record) track bike, the Basso, and the Tommassini. As nice as the Tommassini was, I wanted something stiffer in the head tube and bb. The track bike goes on the block this week. A commuter and a road bike is enough. In the end, the new bike is a superior ride to my old steel bikes. I sold them to a friend who really appreciates what they are and will both tinker with and ride them.

The old bikes:










and the track bike:



Edited by markojp - 8/7/15 at 10:31am
post #888 of 1389

9News just ran a "Same Road; Same Rules" cycling add. Can't say I disagree.

 

Now if we could just get them to run a "Snowy Road; Snow Tire" campaign, followed by a "911 is not here to settle your pissing contest on the highway" campaign...

Ah well; job security I suppose.:rolleyes 

post #889 of 1389
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post


Just wanted to update... at a certain point, the investment to upgrade the two bikes, even one for that matter, as much as a new bike. You dont 'upgrade' Dura Ace drive trains to 105... it would have been Chorus if anything. if I were to have kept one of the two, it would have been the Basso... it just road stiffer with better power transfer, but it needed the top tobe repainted and the original fork steerer tube replaced. I had 4 bikes: a cannondale commuter, a Bianci Reparto Corsa (campy record) track bike, the Basso, and the Tommassini. As nice as the Tommassini was, I wanted something stiffer in the head tube and bb. The track bike goes on the block this week. A commuter and a road bike is enough. In the end, the new bike is a superior ride to my old steel bikes. I sold them to a friend who really appreciates what they are and will both tinker with and ride them.

The old bikes:










and the track bike:



Purdy. Geometry on the Bianchi looks toit!

I had put an EMS fork on the first Merlin to replace an SR (I think) alloy. Was told by Tom Kellogg that it would ruin the bike's handling because it slightly altered the bike's geometry, but if anything, it made the bike a little less twitchy. My impression either way was that the Merlin was a better jack of all trades; circuit, crit, and road, whereas the Masi was IMO pure road, despite the "Criterium" in the name.

 

Had I not been wrecked on the Masi, I'm pretty sure I would have needed a Merlin before too long, and would have gotten a ton of enjoyment out of both. I've never ridden any other road bike that inspired confidence while descending like that Masi did.

post #890 of 1389
The basso was a maniac decender. We had a couple of long straight shots that were regularly 90kph... Rock solid. Arced and tracked really well on technical decents too. Low bb helped.
post #891 of 1389
Quote:
Originally Posted by bounceswoosh View Post
 

 

:worthless

 

 

 

Hmm. I don't  have anything scheduled for Monday right now - I'll keep you posted. If my husband needs to fly out Sunday afternoon, I might stay up in Breck with the dogs and be able to ride two days. If not, he'll be riding too, and we'll be driving together, and the poor bastard has to work Monday ... 


I know, I know about the pics! It was too cold and windy this time around to stop much! My friend Pam who was with us usually takes a gazillion pics, but even she didn't bother. I want to ride it twice also to stop a lot on the 2nd time around and take pics.

post #892 of 1389

@skiNEwhere and I rode Keystone today and both upped our game a bit. I had a GoPro set to 2 second photos for much of it, meaning I have literally thousands of photos to sort through. Here's what I've discovered: the most technical, gnarliest bits - the parts where we both walked it through, talked it through, and even repeated a few times to be able to ride it - still look like nothing much in the photos. ARGH!

post #893 of 1389

I think I found some pics that do a little justice. So we didn't get it. That's ok. This ain't over!

 

 

post #894 of 1389
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiNEwhere View Post
 

I think I found some pics that do a little justice. So we didn't get it. That's ok. This ain't over!

 

 

 

Hey! We rode <almost> all of it!

post #895 of 1389

I feel strongly that when I looked at that Cowboy Up rock garden several years ago, it was much gnarlier, with no line at all. I don't know if that's because they've cleaned it up, or because my eye has developed.

post #896 of 1389
Quote:
Originally Posted by bounceswoosh View Post

@skiNEwhere
 and I rode Keystone today and both upped our game a bit. I had a GoPro set to 2 second photos for much of it, meaning I have literally thousands of photos to sort through. Here's what I've discovered: the most technical, gnarliest bits - the parts where we both walked it through, talked it through, and even repeated a few times to be able to ride it - still look like nothing much in the photos. ARGH!

MTB POV shots drive me nuts. You're riding what certainly looks and feels gnarly, and then you go to watch it and...fizzle. smile.gif
post #897 of 1389
Quote:
Originally Posted by NayBreak View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bounceswoosh View Post

@skiNEwhere
 and I rode Keystone today and both upped our game a bit. I had a GoPro set to 2 second photos for much of it, meaning I have literally thousands of photos to sort through. Here's what I've discovered: the most technical, gnarliest bits - the parts where we both walked it through, talked it through, and even repeated a few times to be able to ride it - still look like nothing much in the photos. ARGH!

MTB POV shots drive me nuts. You're riding what certainly looks and feels gnarly, and then you go to watch it and...fizzle. smile.gif

 

I'm currently working on the world's longest trip report - with photos! - for yesterday. @skiNEwhere has some video, too. I think he worked third shift, rode bikes all day, and then went straight to third shift again, in which case I certainly hope he's sleeping right now.

post #898 of 1389

Reposted from my blog:

 

 

@skiNEwhere and I seem to be a good pair - he's more comfortable with wooden features; I'm more comfortable with drops. I have a fair amount of coaching and technical riding knowledge under my belt, but I get hung up on how scary a section looks; he will try a lot of things that I initially want to walk, and then I give some pointers and in the process often decide to try it, too. We push each other in good ways.

I had my little-used GoPro attached to my handlebars and taking photos every two seconds. It was a lot to sift through, but I did get some decent stills.

We skipped the green warmup trail (it involves a fair bit of pedaling and takes a lot of time) and instead started on the easier blue, Mosquito Coast. We'd both felt good riding it the previous weekend, so it was a good, confidence building warmup.  skiNEwhere rode the elevated wooden feature several times; I never got up the nerve. It will happen some other day.

skiNEwhere rolling off the end of the wooden feature

After Mosquito Coast, we headed back up and rode the other blue, Eye of the Tiger. I last rode it years ago, on a sloppy, muddy day, and the steep pitch, tight turns, and wet roots, all in mud you couldn't brake in, did not instill me with fond memories. SkiNEwhere had just ridden it last weekend in mud with a flat front tire. So ... yeah. The top part went well, although I balked at a root drop right inside a tight turn and just couldn't bring myself to ride it. Shortly thereafter, skiNEwhere got a flat - so, that wasn't so hot. He managed to fill it (and then some) with a CO2 cartridge, and we were off, although a little concerned about the tire. Nevertheless, when we got to the branch where Boy Scout and Wild Thing split, I somehow convinced him to try Wild Thing. I remembered riding it years ago, and there were lots of technical features, but no huge jumps or anything. So we went for it. Right at the entrance, you have the option of riding around a log drop, but we decided to go for it. Next time I need to remember to look ahead more - in the middle of the drop, I was pretty sure I was going to endo, but I didn't. Speed would help, of course, but that doesn't play well with stopping to evaluate the obstacle.

Wild Thing entrance / log drop

So we rode the log drop, and felt pretty great about that. Next was a wooden bridge with a slight curve that I've never been able to ride - wooden features just freak me out somehow. It doesn't help that I recently lost a lot of skin to a wet wall ride. But skiNEwhere rode it like it wasn't even there, then encouraged me to ride it. Not only did I ride it, but I managed a series of decently sized root drops right after it. I felt like a superhero.

Wild Thing wooden feature

.. and that was the last time I was going to feel like a superhero on Wild Thing. It was jam packed with root and rock drops, often in the middle of tight turns. We walked most of it and saw some crazy riding - apparently, if you don't touch the ground, you don't have to worry about the roots and rocks at all! SkiNEwhere's tire was also deflating very gradually - I would bet it was 50 psi when we filled it on Eye of the Tiger, and somewhere around 30 by the time we got back to the base.

We searched for a bike shop. Keystone Sports wasn't going to be able to look at the bike for 45 minutes to even evaluate it, but they helpfully suggested NorSki, which isn't right in the village. They were able to look at the bike right away, find that there was dirt in the tire ruining the seal, and got the tire cleaned and mounted in less than 20 minutes, for less than $20 including a whole lot of Stan's. I would definitely take my bike there if I needed a quick fix during the day.

Lunch time! It was actually already 1:30. We shared an outdoor picnic style table - from which we could see our bikes - with a lovely couple and had an extended conversation. He no longer skis due to MS. We suggested lessons and we suggested that he check out EpicSki - I hope he makes an appearance.

Honestly, by the time we were done with lunch, I was ready to be mellow. SkiNEwhere wanted to revisit Eye of the Tiger and build some better memories, but I had wanted to ride a series of black runs that I swear are less difficult (except for a few specific spots) than that blue. Cowboy Up -> TNT -> Paid in Full -> Money. Despite the Wild Thing fiasco, he was up for it. As it turned out, TNT was closed, so we rode Motorhead (umlauts go in there somewhere) instead for that section.

There's a famous rock garden on Cowboy Up. Just last week, while getting my bike fixed, I told the shop guy that I would happy if one day I could just see the line through the rock garden - never mind riding it. Shop guy told me he was sure I could ride it. So anyway, I had told SkiNEwhere repeatedly that we were just going to walk that section, no worries, and everything after that would be gravy. So we get to the rock garden, I start walking alongside the trail, and he says he's just going to ride it like a fool and see what happens. I think he's joking until I look over from where I'm walking the bike and see - he's actually riding it! Well. I re-evaluate. I hem and haw. I finally go to the top of the section and - actually ride it! We both had a couple of spots where we had to, um, pause for reflection, but we rode that damn impossible rock garden.

Cowboy Up rock garden

Last bit of Cowboy Up rock garden

There was another technical rock section that we sessioned. Again, I was just going to walk it, but skiNEwhere decided to ride it. His first two attempts were not entirely successful, but in the meantime, I worked up my nerve and decided I could ride it (those 9" of travel on my downhill rig are awfully confidence inspiring). SkiNEwhere said that he half wanted me to make it, and half didn't, and I totally understood. The problem was that the entrance had a rock that created a ledge and then there were two rocks that formed a pinch. It just plain looked intimidating and tended to get you to do stupid things in an attempt to avoid those bits at the top. As I stood at the top, I saw the solution: don't look at the intimidating bits at the top. Look straight ahead to the bottom of the section. And when I did that, it all just worked and I rolled right through the whole thing without a problem. So then SkiNEwhere rode it one more time, after I'd explained my "brilliant" tactic, and he made it, too. There was much rejoicing.

Not quite clearing it

bounceswoosh giving "expert" advice

When we finally got to the main section of Paid in Full and Money, it was all swoopy flow trail with lots of low-consequence tabletops scattered in. A couple of the banked turns on Paid in Full are steep enough to give me serious pucker factor, enough that I remember yelling "Oh SH*T!" and then "Oh JESUS!" about 5 seconds apart from each other. Kinda like a roller coaster. Super fun.

We got back to the lift with minutes to spare before they closed down. This time, skiNEwhere was up for riding the blacks again and reinforcing what we'd learned. Me, I was pooped and just wanted to get to the bottom without hurting myself. I felt I needed to take it down a notch (as per A Conversation with Fear). Plus, I wanted to see what Eye of the Tiger felt like after doing those more intense rides. Specifically, that one root drop in the middle of a turn that I'd been unwilling to ride earlier in the day. And hey, SkiNEwhere hadn't had a chance yet to ride Eye of the Tiger without a flat. So we rode Eye of the Tiger, and honestly, I was exhausted, but it was still fun as hell. I had this weird two-brain experience; whenever I got to a technical piece, I had both the memory of it being scary, and the memory of riding things just so much scarier than what I was on. My only real problem was that I was so tired that I kept sitting down on the saddle and being super lazy with bike handling, so everything felt pretty off kilter. This time, having learned that Wild Thing is not for us just yet, we finished off on Boy Scouts.

Overall, a super great day. It doesn't sound like we did a lot of riding, but we really worked the hell out of the trails we rode.

post #899 of 1389
^^^great TR. I think your pics turned out with a good POV.

I don't remember that either of you were on this thread last summer when we (well, at least a few of us), were trying to work out a good POV mount for video. With a Contour, I settled in on a mount just behind the head tube. Here's a sample - seems you might be able to do something similar with a GoPro handlebar mount.

I know these things don't inspire much excitement for others to watch, but I like them for personal use.
post #900 of 1389
Quote:
Originally Posted by NayBreak View Post

^^^great TR. I think your pics turned out with a good POV.

I don't remember that either of you were on this thread last summer when we (well, at least a few of us), were trying to work out a good POV mount for video. With a Contour, I settled in on a mount just behind the head tube. Here's a sample - seems you might be able to do something similar with a GoPro handlebar mount.

I know these things don't inspire much excitement for others to watch, but I like them for personal use.
 

 

I like your video! The music seems too angsty for such a fun ride, but that's a personal preference thing.

 

The mount hardware (plasticware) I have for the GoPro wouldn't have fit behind the head tube:

 

 

 

I have a handlebar mount that would have pointed it sideways, and then a second piece that flips it 90 degrees. I mounted the handlebar pretty much parallel to the ground, just a little upward to counteract the case's inability to quite look forward perfectly.  ... :words: .. here, let me get a picture. I did occasionally find the joint wandering to my left and had to push it back into place.

 

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Cycling
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Off-Season Sports & The Lighter Side › Cycling › Bike Stoke Picture Thread