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Rossignol Soul 7, Moment Deathwish or Line Sir Francis Bacon - Page 2

post #31 of 50

5'11" 209 lbs....*ding*

 

And dropping i hope. actually weighed in at 206 yesterday morning...

 

 

Totally agree about the weight vs ski stiffness comparison. I felt the same about the bonafides.  Once i wasnt chicken to ski a longer ski , it helped even more.

post #32 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcald View Post
 

Hey guys, I have the same question, same size, but I'm at Big Sky Resort in Montana.
I got a chance to ski the Soul 7 this winter in Maine and wasn't too thrilled (as much as people were making it)
I skied on the Volkl Gotama and absolutely loved it!  a bit pricey, but awesome ski.
How does this ski compare to the SFB and Soul in your opinion?

I am gonna need a new pair of skis this winter
SKI THE SCREE!

They've changed the Gotama so many times over the years it's hard to keep track of what it is currently. Before all the rocker, to me it was one of the best crud/variable skis I knew of, sort of semi-charger in mixed snow, but carved on packed and good in bumps.  

Ditto its bigggg brother the Katana, in even more mixed pow.

 I've known and seen Gotama one quiver guys who did very well on that G ski, experts. 

 I think it's softer now, but to me it's still a semi charger, esp. as/for a lighter guy, whereas many of the "charger" skis Beyond listed, for me would probably be "burly" skis, off my radar. Burly boards. :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post
 

^^^ Hmmm. True and not true. The numbers say that the SFB is also a lot heavier and has a 5-point design that's different form the Soul 7, while the Goats are in the middle, weight wise, and have a full rocker, no 5-point. Plus a torsion box, which the other two lack. Also I'd never call the Goats a "stiffer charging ski;" a Helldorado or BMX108 or Stormrider 107 or Blizzard Cochise is a stiffer charging ski in that range. 

 

IMHO this is apples and oranges and pears. Not all "softer" skis are meant to do the same things or make the same skiers happy. And not all "stiffer" skis are equally optimized for charging. 

 

I've skied the Soul 7 in 180 and even 188, and I don't think this ski comes off as a plank for the lightest of us! Stays light and playful! Very fun, good on edge but weird feel to its edge; not for crust and such. The Francis Bacon I have not skied, but I spent a day in springtime with a freestyler on the Bacons, and he was charging on edge with them, jumping, switching, spinning, bank turning, always working the edge more than a Soul 7 might allow or encourage.

He said that to him that was one of the differences between the two skis. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post
 

@mrg12321

 

Just keep in mind the Souls are a super-fun ski but they fold up when things get firmer or in heavier snow. I am putting AT's on my 180 souls this season and using the SFB's for anything up to a foot or so, then the Praxis Protests come out.  

So, Finndog, when will you use your Unleashed Hell/Patron? :) 


Edited by ski otter - 9/5/14 at 12:04pm
post #33 of 50

I agree with those over 200 lbs; skis that are stiff for light weight people become pliant for man-size people ;-) and longer lengths work better except in the tightest trees.

post #34 of 50

Interesting issues here. Just as bigger guys might need a super long softer ski that ends up being scary in trees, I'd add that IMO, we lighter skiers do not benefit from going short with a stiff model of powder ski that you big guys might be able to mash. Try skiing a SL at speed in chop and you'll see why.

 

The answer, seems like, is back to the future. Remember when big guys skied certain brands of wider ski, and lighter guys went with other brands? Dynastar and K2 come to mind. But then marketing departments and dealers decided that one brand should cater to all possible bodies, physics be damned, and buying advice went from "try these brands" to "try a shorter/longer length in this model." 

post #35 of 50
I'm 5'11, and I think about 200lbs (wife and I don't believe in having a scale in the house), and I like stiffer, long turning radius skis. They're all between 186-192, and from 106mm to 125mm underfoot. And I ski out west.
What were we talking about?
post #36 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski otter View Post
 

 

So, Finndog, when will you use your Unleashed Hell/Patron? :)

My neighbor has 6 kids and after I found out that he had no ski's I figured he needed them more than me.  Its a fantastic ski but with our light snow, I have gravitated to a touch narrower skis for the avg 4-8" snow days we get.  Don't get me wrong though, for a big day (foot plus, and we get several a season) when the ruts in the trees get filled in, the Praxis Protest is beyond fun and super nimble.  The Soul is a blast in trees; so light underfoot with seemingly zero swing weight.  its fine until the snow gets a little heavy or setup. I just wanted to ski the SFB  so I am setting the Soul up with guardians for AT and inbound use. I just like to try and ski different models. 

 

Since its September, here's one of the protests on a pretty deep morning last December.

 

post #37 of 50

Thanks, Finndog. I have got to try the Sir Francis Bacons or Drakes or whatever foodstuff they are, not to mention the hopeless objective of demoing Protests. 

For now I'll set my sights on a powder ski to complement my Super 7s, to use in more variable or crusted up bump conditions (a windblown 4" on crust, for instance). like maybe the Sir F.s or Atomic Autos real long.   

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post
 

Interesting issues here. Just as bigger guys might need a super long softer ski that ends up being scary in trees, I'd add that IMO, we lighter skiers do not benefit from going short with a stiff model of powder ski that you big guys might be able to mash. Try skiing a SL at speed in chop and you'll see why.

 

The answer, seems like, is back to the future. Remember when big guys skied certain brands of wider ski, and lighter guys went with other brands? Dynastar and K2 come to mind. But then marketing departments and dealers decided that one brand should cater to all possible bodies, physics be damned, and buying advice went from "try these brands" to "try a shorter/longer length in this model." 

 

FWIW, as a shorter guy, I seem to be finding that there is a real benefit for a longer set of ~115 powder skis: for a 5'10" 145 lbs guy, 186 Atomic Autos, for instance, are supposed to be long.

 

 Pardon my truly vast ignorance here, :) but there may be a reason besides super hero ability that has Dana and Sage (Both ~150-160 lb. guys as I understand it) using the 186 and 193 versions of their ~115 skis. I find that in variable powder snow bumping up, or in variable powder condition bumps, on the longer powder skis (e.g., 186 Autos) I can do things I can't on shorter skis of any width I've played with so far. I gain stability and speed control for longer turns, bigger turn lines more in the fall line and more popping off the sides of bumps (something I rarely do on most skis).

 

 But I'd have to mount pretty far forward to gain any edge in trees, I'd imagine. And I might lose my bump/variable advantage with that forward mount. (I'll have to get Shizo or demo bindings to play around with this.)  

 

A slightly heavier guy might find the same advantages one ski length up, at, say, 193 cm for, say, a 160-185 lbs. guy on Autos. And above that weight, on perhaps a stiffer ski, usually of a different brand, as Beyond suggests. 

 

A longer pair of ~108 Bacons, or even of FX 94s or Stormrider 95s, might possibly have the same advantages, for a guy of my weight at least. 

 

I'd be very interested in anyone else's experience with longer skis, along these lines. :) 


Edited by ski otter - 9/5/14 at 12:54pm
post #38 of 50

@ski otter  you know I love to try different skis and right now if I were to buy any ski, it would be the Praxis GPO,  food for thought......

post #39 of 50

The Goat is the bigger brother of the bridge I think, maybe the kink, I cant remember.  Only REAL difference was the underfoot dimensions. Although I skied both bridge and Gotama, the bridge and it seemed more springy at slower speeds, more playful. Never really charged the bridge, but the Goat held up great!  Soaked up that chundery/powder on the windblown side very well.

post #40 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post
 

@ski otter  you know I love to try different skis and right now if I were to buy any ski, it would be the Praxis GPO,  food for thought......

 

Apologies for being off the thread a bit.  The Goat and Sir Francis Bacon are skis I have been considering also, as a P.M. or "next day" resort powder ski to complement my '14 Super 7 115s.  (The Soul 7s would be too much overlap with my Supers and would have similar limitations in crusty, rougher snow conditions--and the icy conditions back East.)

 

 But the GPO ~116 might work too, and for the OP and the Gotama poster, even though it's wider. Especially if this won't be their only ski. 

 

Thanks to various Praxis threads you've posted in, Finndog, I've been reading about the GTO, (oops, GPO :)), a "surfy charger" that busts crud, great edge, "flex or multi radius."

 

I know I can customize the flex of Praxis skis, but still, how will GPO do in p.m. powder day bumps?  (not zipperline steep and uniform, just varied like those found at Copper Mt.)

This is where I go after powder wears off some. If I skied Steamboat, I'd be in those birch trees too.  (and maybe even all those low angle slopes that seem to go for miles.) :)   

post #41 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski otter View Post
 

how will GPO do in p.m. powder day bumps?  (not zipperline steep and uniform, just varied like those found at Copper Mt.)

This is where I go after powder wears off some. If I skied Steamboat, I'd be in those birch trees too.  (and maybe even all those low angle slopes that seem to go for miles.) :)   

This is a question that intrigues me, too. A lot of pow skis are fun in soft bumps by the the nature of their design and flex. Super 7, Patron, BC come to mind. But they may not shine when the pow begins to compact and get chopped up, and the bumps get deeper and firmer. Why do you have your sights on a GPO? What strange and unsettling data do you have access to? Is NSA involved?

post #42 of 50

I absolutely adore my Bacon's and can't imagine ever parting with them, but I think it's important people know that they have a very specific niche. They're a soft and surfy ski, meant for skiing with a particular style in soft snow and Pow. You don't necessarily have to have that surfy style, the ski will bring it out of you but the ski performs best if you're in a less aggressive stance and at moderate speeds. Under these circumstances it's absolute heaven, the smoothness and playfulness is pure bliss and unmatched in my experience. On groomers if conditions aren't firm I can put my shoulder on the ground when I carve, and these things are a blast in soft bumps. However, when things do firm up or you try to dial up the speed you'd better be ready for a rodeo.

 

The Soul 7's are a ski I was very disappointed with, a less fun even softer version of the Bacon's IMO.

 

I think the Deathwish is a great ski, the problem for me is if i'm not surfing on my Bacon's I like to charge, and if i'm not going to use the Deathwish in Powder, where it's surprisingly good but not in the Bacon's league, I'd rather be on a charger like the Moment Belafonte. Still, even though I thought it felt weird as all hell and have no idea how it works, the Deathwish is a really good all around ski. I just prefer a stiffer ski for my daily driver. I do think everyone should demo this ski.

 

Unfortunately they've changed the Gotama too much for my liking, too soft, not playful enough and pretty boring when you really think about it. At least the current version.

post #43 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski otter View Post
 

 

Thanks to various Praxis threads you've posted in, Finndog, I've been reading about the GTO, (oops, GPO :)), a "surfy charger" that busts crud, great edge, "flex or multi radius."

 

I know I can customize the flex of Praxis skis, but still, how will GPO do in p.m. powder day bumps?  (not zipperline steep and uniform, just varied like those found at Copper Mt.)

This is where I go after powder wears off some. If I skied Steamboat, I'd be in those birch trees too.  (and maybe even all those low angle slopes that seem to go for miles.) :)   

ASPENS............ ;)

post #44 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post
 

This is a question that intrigues me, too. A lot of pow skis are fun in soft bumps by the the nature of their design and flex. Super 7, Patron, BC come to mind. But they may not shine when the pow begins to compact and get chopped up, and the bumps get deeper and firmer. Why do you have your sights on a GPO? What strange and unsettling data do you have access to? Is NSA involved?

You caught me red-handed, or rather, white-handed, on the GPOs. :D 

"We the jury find the defendent, ski otter, to be guilty, completely guilty, of pure ignorance!"

 

I assume by "BC" you mean Bent Chets. :)

 

You describe exactly the problem I have w. my Super 7s, also a bit w. the Patrons (a "no" for me, probably partly because of my weight), and must assume also w. the Bent Chets, they being more loose and slarvy than most. The Supers are super good in pure pow/chop a.m. bumps only, for me (I'm guessing also with the Chets). 

 

On the other hand, the Atomic Autos, for me, killed those p.m. bump conditions; but were killed in turn by the Super 7s in pure powder.  

 

So my GPO (and other queries) about PM powder bumps/chop/crud skis are a last ditch attempt to find an alternative to the Autos, in my abundant ignorance, before I pull the trigger on a longish pair (186 for a 145 lb. guy) to use in just those p.m. conditions (and "next day" conditions also).

Ha!

post #45 of 50

Skied the Soul 7 in 12" of fresh powder last December. Great soft snow ski. Super light and playful. Then again almost any ski would be great in those conditions. Skied the Bacon 40 days last season. It absolutely rules with even a dusting of new snow. The ski loves to make almost any shape turn and loves to be in the air. Will handle chop just fine if you stay centered. I've never taken it out on absolute bullet-proof so I can't say but it would probably do less well on ice, not that anyone would prefer those conditions on this ski. Everything else from moguls to groomers the ski handles just fine, and absolutely rules in tight trees. I haven't skied the Death Wish so nothing to offer there. Soul 7 and SFB are great skis. I give the edge to the Bacon by a wide margin for versatility.

post #46 of 50

Regarding the GPO - I found it to be a ridiculously versatile and confidence generating ski. It definitely was my go-to ski last year. I expect it will be this year. A couple other family members use them as well. One mixes them up with Bent Chetlers and Praxis Protests. As a rule, as follows : Bent Chetlers for "playful" days where switch and floppy spinny may be on the menu. Protests for really big consistent days. GPOs for variable days, firm days, generally good days, and days where there is good stuff with crap likely to be had coming or going. That said, really nasty ice bumps are rarely on our menu - though I'd speculate the GPO would do as well as anything in its class.  

 

I also know a former Olympic racer who views the GPO as his ski of choice for variable conditions.

 

The GPOs  have also proved themselves in varied conditions on the FWT. 

 

Sadly, I failed to ski the Auto or the Super last year, so can not compare. 

 

Disclaimer - I am a huge fan of Keith's skis. But as a rule, I'm also not "anti" other brands -  and we currently have some Atomics, Volkls & K2s in the house as well (though Praxis dominates the quivers)...

post #47 of 50

Thanks, Spin. Useful. So some guts, but still maneuverable. Good stuff with crap likely seems to be my typical menu. Huge fan of Keith too. 

post #48 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by spindrift View Post
 

Regarding the GPO - I found it to be a ridiculously versatile and confidence generating ski. It definitely was my go-to ski last year. I expect it will be this year. A couple other family members use them as well. One mixes them up with Bent Chetlers and Praxis Protests. As a rule, as follows : Bent Chetlers for "playful" days where switch and floppy spinny may be on the menu. Protests for really big consistent days. GPOs for variable days, firm days, generally good days, and days where there is good stuff with crap likely to be had coming or going. That said, really nasty ice bumps are rarely on our menu - though I'd speculate the GPO would do as well as anything in its class.

 

I also know a former Olympic racer who views the GPO as his ski of choice for variable conditions.

 

The GPOs  have also proved themselves in varied conditions on the FWT.

 

Sadly, I failed to ski the Auto or the Super last year, so can not compare.

 

Disclaimer - I am a huge fan of Keith's skis. But as a rule, I'm also not "anti" other brands -  and we currently have some Atomics, Volkls & K2s in the house as well (though Praxis dominates the quivers)...

 

Thanks. I would never be using the GPO in harder bumps, just "day after" bumps, at most. I gather from what you say here that it would work well, for these conditions.  Wish I could try it out myself. But I did not see a ringing endorsement  for the GPO as a soft/chop bump star here, is that right?

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post
 

This is a question that intrigues me, too. A lot of pow skis are fun in soft bumps by the the nature of their design and flex. Super 7, Patron, BC come to mind. But they may not shine when the pow begins to compact and get chopped up, and the bumps get deeper and firmer. Why do you have your sights on a GPO? What strange and unsettling data do you have access to? Is NSA involved?

 

Sorry to give the impression I haven't looked into the GPO, Beyond.  My ignorance is because I haven't skied it, only researched it for some time (since Blistergear.com chose the Praxis Protest as a favorite powder ski).  The GPO also stood out for me on their website.

 

Also, at least one Epic post mentioned that the GPO is more stable than the Auto in chop/crud at speed, while handling powder as well.

 

Both the Praxis Website (including Drew Tabke UTube videos) and a number of TGR Praxis threads cover the GPO with other Praxis skis or the GPO specifically.  Good stuff here and there in all those pages, including embedded UTube videos of other skiers on the GPO: in the videos, looks like a surfy charger, with quick turns leaning forward, gs when upright.

Spindrift contributed prominently, and knowledgeably, in those TGR threads. :)

 

Tabke's style includes using really neat, quick pivots on extreme terrain, as well as sweeping carves.  On GPOs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Pn38hiwnnw


Edited by ski otter - 9/7/14 at 6:43pm
post #49 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski otter View Post
 

 

Thanks. I would never be using the GPO in harder bumps, just "day after" bumps, at most. I gather from what you say here that it would work well, for these conditions.  Wish I could try it out myself. But I did not see a ringing endorsement  for the GPO as a soft/chop bump star here, is that right?

 

 

 

Actually, that'd be the kind of stuff I'd count on the GPO to get me through with a smile on my face. For my proposes, that is where the GPO shines. Not much seems to perturb it. Soft crud, hard crud, lumpy, whatever...  And still fun in the good stuff.

post #50 of 50
Thread Starter 
Just to update this if anyone is still debating the original topic. Ended up getting a job at a ski shop and spending all my money on skis... So i did end up with a bacon and a soul. As well as a volkl shiro and a faction candide 3.0. I got the soul in a 172 and the bacon in a 178 based on multiple recommendations to buy the bacons longer. I found the bacons did in fact ski quite short and was glad i did not go with the 172. Comparing the two: I far prefer the soul in bumps. Its MUCH lighter and quicker. The bacon is undoubtably more fun for jibby stuff as well as tight trees. And the soul wins out in powder. I did find them both to be similarly bad on hard snow. If i had to go back and only buy one it would definetely be the Soul 7.
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