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Any feedback from these Mother's Day Trip Report Videos? - Page 2

post #31 of 48
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the thought everyone has put into this.

On the instructor front, I don't consider an appointment with an L3 to be "randomly selected." My hunch is that a walk up group lesson isn't going to do much. Is that incorrect?
post #32 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdf View Post
 

Background for those who don't know me -- I was a heel-pusher for twenty years.  About 8 years ago I remade my skiing and I think I mostly succeeded.  I'm an OK skier --  I can hang with the top group at an Epicski Gathering and that ain't chicken feed.

 

I think fatoldman's phrase "survival mode" is a pretty good description of what happens when I get tired or over-terrained.  Those ancient movement patterns come back, at least in part.

 

Sounds just like me at age 67. LOL  I look bad on easy trails (where my few falls happen).

On steep gnarly stuff I look great and rarely fall.

:D

post #33 of 48
Mdf, here's a good vid for you... Should help you manage pressure and start a rounded line above the fall line...
Tip to tip Javelins for your viewing pleasure:

smile.gif
post #34 of 48

But he's not wearing a helmet!!!!!!!

post #35 of 48

That's true. He's not. That's another thread, but I'm not going there.  :)

post #36 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown View Post

But he's not wearing a helmet!!!!!!!

Hmmm... Pot describing kettle?
post #37 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdf View Post

Qcanoe -
Thanks. What is maddening is that I am fighting battles I have fought before. And the inconsistency. For example, some days I could zipper line Ramrod (a blue at A basin with 2 foot deep icy bumps) and other days I couldn't.

Ever watch Michael Jordan miss a jumper? Everyone has good days and less good days. All skiers have good runs and less good runs. Jordan's seasonal field goal percentage varied between around 40 per cent to a little over 50 per cent. You cannot make complicated physical movement activities exactly the same every time, especially without the opportunity to make them every day in the same conditions.
post #38 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mdskier View Post
 

Sounds just like me at age 67. LOL  I look bad on easy trails (where my few falls happen).

On steep gnarly stuff I look great and rarely fall.

:D


No brag just fact.Thumbs Up  I saw you skillfully and aggressively attack Extrovert at Blue Knob in 2011 without thinking twice about it (this is about as gnarly as we get in the mid-Atlantic):

post #39 of 48

@mdf, you are making short turns in these videos.  If you face more down the hill with your hips/shoulders

than your skis with short turns, good things will follow.  Angulation will be easier, instead of banking.  

Balance will be stronger since you won't be turning your whole body left and right; that swinging around

with every turn creates a big force that needs to be switched; your technique for switching it works but

tires you out.  Here's how you're doing it, with some comments on what might work better.

 

1.  At the end of your turns, your hips/shoulders are facing the same direction as your skis; you

are square.  Your inside hand is low and back, and your outside hand is up and forward.  If that

relationship were reversed (your inside hand up and forward and the outside hand back) this

new configuration would help you keep your hips/shoulders facing more downhill than your skis.  

This would be good.  

 

2.  A nanosecond later you are planting your pole.  Notice your new inside hand, the one planting your pole,

is more forward than the other, and reaching downhill.  It is in the way of you turning in the other direction.  

It is blocking your turn.

      Again, reversing this arrangement and holding the pole-planting hand back and the other hand forward would

be good. Sometimes a focus simply on keeping the current inside hand up and forward can take care of

both hands.  Sometimes a focus on the planting hand works better, keeping it back.

      Notice also that your new inside ski is slipping downhill away from you.  This is a down-stem people have 

mentioned. You are losing your grip.

 

3.  Here's the UP move people have mentioned.  You have propelled yourself off the new outside ski

down into the new turn.  To help this happen, you have lifted the new inside ski out of the way.  

This movement pattern is the push-off that tires you out. 

     In short turns, if you drop your new inside hip by flexing that leg instead of propelling off the new outside

ski, you don't get so tired.  You won't lose your grip and have that down-stem.  You won't be hopping into

each turn, a point jasp made earlier.  Flex-to-release is the go-to move to work on here.  You will drop

between turns instead of moving up.

 

4.  Here's what you do as you propell yourself off that new outside ski.  You turn your head and shoulders

in the direction of the new turn hard and fast.  This is a rotary-push-off initiation.  Given the fact that you

are skiing square to your skis, this is an adequate way to get the new turn started.  You've got a big athletic

push-off, a move that produces a lot of force. Along with it you turn your upper body hard.  With these two

working together, your skis have no other option but to follow your upper body around into the new turn.  You

can overpower the old turn with all this rotary-hopping action.

      Had you been skiing with upper body-lower body separation, you would not need such big forces to overpower

the old turn and generate the new one.  


So separation, with upper body (hips and shoulders) facing downhill, while skis point left and right, is the solution.  

Not only will you tire less; you will be able to maintain your balance better since your whole body won't be

turning all the way around with every turn.

 

 

 

 

 

.


Edited by LiquidFeet - 5/19/14 at 6:41am
post #40 of 48

.....and probably the best place to work on LF's suggestions is (perhaps unfortunately?) on the groom.

 

    zenny

post #41 of 48

Here's the issue with the hands.  Maybe you can fix the whole movement pattern

with a focus on hands only, maybe not.  But it's worth a try.  These images are from the second video.

 

1.  Here's the end of a turn.  Without the separation, you have difficulty angulating.

So you're leaning in.  Angulation is so much easier if you are facing more downhill

than your skis.

     But notice your hands.  The inside hand is down and back; the outside hand is moving

forward and up, as if you were walking and swinging your arms.

 

2.  Hands continue swinging.  New inside hand (old outside) is moving up and forward,

putting itself in front of your upper body, blocking its movement into the new turn.

The other hand is farther back and down, accentuating the leaning-in and the squaring up.

 

3.  You are moving aft as you get ready to plant the pole.  

 

4.  New inside hand has gone way up as your shoulder and head move backwards.

Current outside ski is sliding away downhill in its downstem.

 

5.  See that?  After planing the pole, waaay baak goes that hand AND the head and

shoulders.  Instead of swinging the pole baskets, you are swinging your arms (and your

upper body).  

     Goal:  get hands configured so that current inside hand is up and forward and

current outside hand is back.  You should be looking and facing downhill between your

hands as your skis point to the trees ending the old turn.  Swing baskets, not hands & arms.   

 

6.  And around you go.  You have to get your body to go waaay around that pole-planting

arm since it's in the way.  That's why your lean back before this; it helps you get

around that arm.  The package of moves you are using in these videos works just fine,

but it throws your whole body around a lot, and thus requires big forceful moves to get

you repointed in the other direction with every turn.  

 

 

Separation between upper body and skis will reduce the amount of overall movement you

need to ski on this terrain.  Getting the hands to behave may be a good starting point.

 

Another option would be to return to pivot slips on groomers, work on getting the hips

to point downhill as the legs turn, and morph the pivot slips into turns (secret:  hips don't

have to point directly downhill; an approximation is fine if your ROM is minimal).  BUT the

hands and shoulders should definitely point downhilll).  

In pivot slips the hands stay configured as I've described above.  Doing pivot slips enough

and morphing them into turns every day may successfully get the muscle memory set in place.


Edited by LiquidFeet - 5/19/14 at 12:49pm
post #42 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post

Another option would be to return to pivot slips on groomers, work on getting the hips

to point downhill as the legs turn, and morph the pivot slips into turns.  In pivot slips

the hands stay configured as I've described above.  Doing pivot slips enough and morphing

them into turns every day may successfully get the muscle memory set in place.

 

  Like when I said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by zentune View Post

Look at those "commuter trails" (groomers, I assume?) as a gateway towards the interesting stuff and they may become more enticing..chances are the issues seen here are present when you ski groomed terrain....

zenny

 

  It's very common for people to try and improve their off piste skiing by skiing off piste only. Problem is that any issues they may have in their skiing are only magnified by harder terrain. Instead, dial it down and get back to basics (as per LF's instructions).

 

   zenny

post #43 of 48
Thread Starter 
When I remade my skiing 8 years ago, I probably decided "mission accomplished" a little too soon. Probably why this comes back when the going gets tough. (I really do ski better than this in easy conditions. )
You are probably right that re-establishing the basics is the path forward.
post #44 of 48
If it makes you feel any better, I follow zenny's thumbs up advice almost daily doing 2-3 runs on green or blue terrain working on stuff I know I have to think about. Sometimes this happens in steep off piste terrain. One favor I do is excuse myself from skiing with others for those runs unless they don't mind waiting (or not as the case may be), are working on their own skiing, etc... but I'll stop, go slow, do whatever it is to get myself sorted out and dialed in. Clears my mind as well.
post #45 of 48

^^^As do I Thumbs Up

 

   zenny

post #46 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by zentune View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post

Another option would be to return to pivot slips on groomers, work on getting the hips
to point downhill as the legs turn, and morph the pivot slips into turns.  In pivot slips
the hands stay configured as I've described above.  Doing pivot slips enough and morphing
them into turns every day may successfully get the muscle memory set in place.

  Like when I said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by zentune View Post

Look at those "commuter trails" (groomers, I assume?) as a gateway towards the interesting stuff and they may become more enticing..chances are the issues seen here are present when you ski groomed terrain....


zenny

  It's very common for people to try and improve their off piste skiing by skiing off piste only. Problem is that any issues they may have in their skiing are only magnified by harder terrain. Instead, dial it down and get back to basics (as per LF's instructions).

   zenny

Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

If it makes you feel any better, I follow zenny's thumbs up advice almost daily doing 2-3 runs on green or blue terrain working on stuff I know I have to think about. Sometimes this happens in steep off piste terrain. One favor I do is excuse myself from skiing with others for those runs unless they don't mind waiting (or not as the case may be), are working on their own skiing, etc... but I'll stop, go slow, do whatever it is to get myself sorted out and dialed in. Clears my mind as well.


Agreed. Focused accurate practice in/on appropriate terrain/conditions pays huge dividends. icon14.gif
post #47 of 48
Good skiing is the body reacting appropriately to the sensations it gets from the circumstances involved, not the brain directing the responses. You develop appropriate reactions by allowing the body to become familiar with the sensations. Mostly, this has to be done at slow paces on lower angle slopes, where you can practice while relaxed. Only when you don't have to think your way through the feedback can you successfully increase the pace.
post #48 of 48

mdf - I did not read all feedback here above but for me this is no brainer. Nice skiing and good rhythm but you are not working with your legs enough. Now you are bumping into the bumps on stiff legs and using the impact to swing you around as you crest the bump. This causes your skiing to become sharp tight pivoted turns followed by scraping sideway down the back side of the bump, the one facing downhill. Instead, try to flex and extend your legs and shape your turns rounder. Now you are making Z type turns. Also, as you extend, angulate and try not to hang on your inside ski. You want more outside ski pressure. Try to stay longer in the fall line. Try to make the fall line your friend. By doing that you get more momentum to shape the lower part of the turn. Now you are week as you come around the bend. That's where you should be the strongest.

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