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Hertel Wax - Page 2

post #31 of 58

Don't forget to use fluoro precautions.

post #32 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post

Don't forget to use fluoro precautions.
And those are?
post #33 of 58

He likely means a mask and ventilation.

 

http://www.environmentalhealthnews.org/ehs/news/ski-wax-chemicals


Edited by quant2325 - 10/14/14 at 8:48pm
post #34 of 58

I have half of my Hertel brick left from last season.  Looks like I will be good on wax for a while.

post #35 of 58
Another thumbs up for Hertel. For the price is hard to beat. The FC slides better and stays on a bit longer, but it is harder to put on and take off.

It is closest to the toko low fluoro shop wax, which i like as well, although a little less slippery (the toko). http://www.askicoach.com/wiki/Razie_Ski_Blog/The_Hertel_Ski_Wax
post #36 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by razie View Post

Another thumbs up for Hertel. For the price is hard to beat. The FC slides better and stays on a bit longer, but it is harder to put on and take off.

It is closest to the toko low fluoro shop wax, which i like as well, although a little less slippery (the toko). http://www.askicoach.com/wiki/Razie_Ski_Blog/The_Hertel_Ski_Wax


I absolutely have had the same experience.  The advantage of the pink stuff (TOKO low fluoro shop wax) is that it is about $12 for a 250 gram brick.  That is an amazing price.  The advantages of the Hertel is what you mentioned. 

post #37 of 58

I like the *blue* LF Toko for aggressive cold new snow.   I like it better than Hertel in Colorado or JH fresh. 

 

(and yes, I've tried both the old and new FC739).

post #38 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post

I like the *blue* LF Toko for aggressive cold new snow.   I like it better than Hertel in Colorado or JH fresh. 

(and yes, I've tried both the old and new FC739).
I can see that - there is a range of all kinds of blue no-fluoro waxes I use for under -15 C
post #39 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by razie View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post

I like the *blue* LF Toko for aggressive cold new snow.   I like it better than Hertel in Colorado or JH fresh. 

(and yes, I've tried both the old and new FC739).
I can see that - there is a range of all kinds of blue no-fluoro waxes I use for under -15 C

 

That's kinda what I'm getting at - conventional wisdom says no fluoro for cold and dry, use moly or graphite or boron or tungsten solid lubricants as additives/electrostatic controls - but I think the new LFs are formulated in a way that that wisdom is getting dated, at least in the sense of a firm 'Don't ever use or try in these conditions'.

post #40 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post
 

 

That's kinda what I'm getting at - conventional wisdom says no fluoro for cold and dry, use moly or graphite or boron or tungsten solid lubricants as additives/electrostatic controls - but I think the new LFs are formulated in a way that that wisdom is getting dated, at least in the sense of a firm 'Don't ever use or try in these conditions'.

indeed - the Toko LF pink is great, i don't have an LF blue - the pink goes quite cold, but i have a bunch of HC blue waxes i bought and i use those when it's really cold. I got too much wax of too many kinds these past two years, for testing purposes - now I use whatever is in front of me, most of the time - I also mix them out of boredom :)

 

For racing though, i have a bunch of yeah, black waxes, with moly or graphite anti-statics, they're all HF too though: the RaceWax HF black, but it's harder to put on than Nanox racing wax, which I find very consistent at all temps - don't really have a clue what they put in that nanox, it looks like it's some Fluoro and a little black stuff, but it's not really black, it's gray.

 

I don't think using HF/LF when cold should be a no-no, maybe hedging one's bets - but I do see the appeal of anti-statics at the same time. It's more important to brush it well I think :) I don't brush much except when it's warm and extra cold :D

 

It looks to me like most waxes you buy these days are pretty good in a wide range of conditions. Unless you buy soap...

post #41 of 58

curious about this nanox stuff

post #42 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post
 

curious about this nanox stuff

It's an interesting wax - twice as expensive as the Hertel, but a bit more consistent - i now appreciate consistency over a better glide here and there - it think it's more important, even for racing. It results in a pretty hot ski though.

 

http://www.askicoach.com/wiki/Razie_Ski_Blog/The_Nanox_ski_wax

 

The one thing I forgot to mention about Hertel - it doesn't seem to mix very well with others. I have to wax and brush it off at least twice for instance after the blue waxes - it doesn't look like it likes mixing. I figure it's all those surfactants, which nobody else has or perhaps the high paraffin content...? So if for some reason you go back and forth, it's not the best choice - you could get the Toko LF pink if you go back and forth between many waxes often.... but avoiding that is the main point of the Hertel wax :) .... ohhh, just buy it, it's good :D

post #43 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by razie View Post

 

 

The one thing I forgot to mention about Hertel - it doesn't seem to mix very well with others. I have to wax and brush it off at least twice for instance after the blue waxes - it doesn't look like it likes mixing. I figure it's all those surfactants, which nobody else has or perhaps the high paraffin content...?

 

It's not too bad with straight-up Swix CH - CH06 and Toko universal moly can even act as Hertel cleaners, IME.   But, yeah, it doesn't like being blended with stuff - it makes gooey hard-to scrape messes with things like F4 and Briko/Maplus and Zardoz Blue.

post #44 of 58

My brother in-law has managed to get most of the true high end ingredients for the true high end wax formulations.  We will be playing with a few formulations this season.

 

@razie I think you are very local to me, so your comments and suggestions are appreciated PM if your interested.

post #45 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschoolskier View Post
 

My brother in-law has managed to get most of the true high end ingredients for the true high end wax formulations.  We will be playing with a few formulations this season.

 

@razie I think you are very local to me, so your comments and suggestions are appreciated PM if your interested.

wooo-hooo I'l bring the beer and the pot.... we've got the real witch's brew right there... 

:beercheer: 

 

p.s. I meant the pot for brewing the mix.... :dunno

post #46 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by razie View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschoolskier View Post
 

My brother in-law has managed to get most of the true high end ingredients for the true high end wax formulations.  We will be playing with a few formulations this season.

 

@razie I think you are very local to me, so your comments and suggestions are appreciated PM if your interested.

wooo-hooo I'l bring the beer and the pot.... we've got the real witch's brew right there... 

:beercheer: 

 

p.s. I meant the pot for brewing the mix.... :dunno

 

Yeh, a likely story :cool

post #47 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post
 

 

It's not too bad with straight-up Swix CH - CH06 and Toko universal moly can even act as Hertel cleaners, IME.   But, yeah, it doesn't like being blended with stuff - it makes gooey hard-to scrape messes with things like F4 and Briko/Maplus and Zardoz Blue.

 

This is good to know, because I'd been thinking of trying Briko/Maplus hard medium this year on a few skis, and currently also use sometimes Hot Sauce, sometimes Swix Ch waxes, depending.  Guess I'll have to be careful about mixing.   

 

This past season I tried the Hertel hot sauce and really liked it for all but cold, dry powder days. (Liked Swix CH6 better for that.) But I'm not ready to give up base prep wax as an underlayer. Anyone know if this will work or have a downside?

 

I've always used mostly Toko (decades ago) and Swix (more recently) here in Colo.  Just out of ignorance and habit, probably.  And I mostly avoid Fluoros like I do many chemicals. (Still have construction & remodel job chem. side-effects.)  :eek

 

In recent years, I'd settled into two routines, one with Hot Sauce and an older one with Swix: using Swix base prep 99-88-77 in succession, then going to temp specific Swix CH waxes. For the heart of the season here, mostly I've used mixtures of CH6 (for hardening and protecting the base) and CH7, both of which you can get very cheaply in bulk at Artechski.  This works really for all but super cold powder, and afternoon spring skiing, seems like.  I'll use just the CH6 for dry, super cold powder dump days, with a sprinkling of CH4 shavings before ironing, sometimes.  I'm open to suggestions. 

 

This past season, things changed. I used mostly Hertel super hot sauce on many of my skis. I noticed I liked it better than Swix (or shop) universal waxes I have, and almost as well as the CH6/CH7 combination.  It's slightly more universal, and consistently a no-stick wax, except in cold conditions as noted. But it doesn't last as long as the CH6.  Still, I haven't really noticed any incompatibility with base prep 99/88/77, so far. :dunno

 

This season I mean to try the Hertel Cold Snap stuff on a limited basis; have already got some, but I noticed it's apparently no longer for sale on the Hertel website. It's pretty expensive.  It's almost certainly fluoro, also.  

 

Ahh, the fun begins!

post #48 of 58

P.S. Sounds like adding moly or graphite to my CH6 might be one way to go with cold powder.  

post #49 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski otter View Post
 

This past season I tried the Hertel hot sauce and really liked it for all but cold, dry powder days. (Liked Swix CH6 better for that.) But I'm not ready to give up base prep wax as an underlayer. Anyone know if this will work or have a downside?

 

IME Hot Sauce works OK with both Swix BP88 and Toko universal moly (which works as a base prep too).    I have not used Hot Sauce with Dominator and probably won't even try - the skis that get the Dominator Base Renew are also the skis that get the top shelf wax of the day.

post #50 of 58
Thread Starter 
Should I be wearing a mask and using ventilation when I use hot sauce and fc 39?
post #51 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by levy1 View Post

Should I be wearing a mask and using ventilation when I use hot sauce and fc 39?
for the FC yes, I do not for the hot sauce.
post #52 of 58
post #53 of 58
I always meant to mount a big fan in the window but never got around to... frown.gif
post #54 of 58

I have a 1700cfm dust collector with micron filter :D.

 

Boys and their toys.

post #55 of 58
Owned! frown.gif
post #56 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques View Post
 

Her's the scoop. 

From Dominator Wax:   http://www.dominatorwax.com/sites/default/files/dominator/WAXROOM-SAFETY.pdf
 

wow.  gotta run that fan with hydrocarbons too.  sheesh.  Another reason to try Dominator Hydrocarbon. 

 

The hot sauce is fluoro free, right?

post #57 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by razie View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post

I like the *blue* LF Toko for aggressive cold new snow.   I like it better than Hertel in Colorado or JH fresh. 

(and yes, I've tried both the old and new FC739).
I can see that - there is a range of all kinds of blue no-fluoro waxes I use for under -15 C
I've had good results with half Hot Sauce and half Hertel Cold Snap below zero. But I haven't tried a cold temp specific wax, so who knows, I might be missing something.

@RiverOtter, I've used Swix BP88 under Hot Sauce with no issues. The only other base prep I've used was Dominator Zoom with graphite, and it didn't seem to work as well. Dominator is well loved around here, so I assume it was simply incompatible with the Hot Sauce.
post #58 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski otter View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques View Post

 
Her's the scoop. 


From Dominator Wax:   http://www.dominatorwax.com/sites/default/files/dominator/WAXROOM-SAFETY.pdf

 
wow.  gotta run that fan with hydrocarbons too.  sheesh.  Another reason to try Dominator Hydrocarbon. 

The hot sauce is fluoro free, right?
Yep, I double checked on the website. The race wax is fluoro, but I didn't look at Cold Snap.
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