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2014-2015 USSA equipment rules published yet?

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 

Sorry if this has been asked and answered 100 times, but I just cannot find anything published!

 

What exactly are going to be the 2014/2015 season USSA Alpine Equipment rules - esp. for U18 boys and esp. for GS skis? Does anyone know for sure or, better yet, have a link to some definitive document?

 

I have seen a PDF rules sheet for 2013/2014, which indicates that U18s will most likely have to race on FIS compliant equipment for the coming season, but this was not a definitive statement yet.

 

The USSA site is characteristically useless - at least to me. Perhaps I failed to do an intelligent search, but ... aah!

 

Any help is appreciated! Thanks!

post #2 of 25
I don't think those decisions come out until summer whether the Alpine Update is released, which is usually after the Comp Guide..

FIS rules

Looks like last year it was finalized end of May. This year's Congress is May 13-18.
Edited by sibhusky - 4/28/14 at 8:36pm
post #3 of 25
Thread Starter 

You are correct, of course! Thanks!

 

They just made this statement regarding the 2014-2015 season (http://ussa.org/news/recap-ussa-congress-2014):

 

"The USSA will not adopt FIS ski length rules for USSA racing. FIS age athletes will still be able to compete in USSA events with existing equipment sizes. An updated equipment chart will be posted on the USSA website: http://alpine.usskiteam.com/alpine-programs/officials/rules"

 

 

But it has not been posted yet :-)

post #4 of 25
post #5 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by wertyq11 View Post
 

 

"The USSA will not adopt FIS ski length rules for USSA racing. FIS age athletes will still be able to compete in USSA events with existing equipment sizes. An updated equipment chart will be posted on the USSA website: http://alpine.usskiteam.com/alpine-programs/officials/rules"

 

 

 

 

I'm half expecting the FIS's next step will be to outlaw metal edges and require runaway straps.....

post #6 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by wertyq11 View Post
 

You are correct, of course! Thanks!

 

They just made this statement regarding the 2014-2015 season (http://ussa.org/news/recap-ussa-congress-2014):

 

"The USSA will not adopt FIS ski length rules for USSA racing. FIS age athletes will still be able to compete in USSA events with existing equipment sizes. An updated equipment chart will be posted on the USSA website: http://alpine.usskiteam.com/alpine-programs/officials/rules"

 

 

But it has not been posted yet :-)

21m radius GS for a female is not existing equipment size for U16. Frankly, many people aren't able to afford brand new equipment for U16s. That would include me.

post #7 of 25
post #8 of 25

Been lurking on the forum for a while, but the rule changes posted are leading me to post...

 

US Ski Team posts (2014/2015) USSA specs as GS R21 skis for U16 female as chanwmr noted.  They also have FIS specs as GS R30 for U16 female.

 

See http://alpine.usskiteam.com/sites/default/files/documents/athletics/compservices/2014-15/documents/2015_alp_equipment.pdf

 

FIS posts specs (2014/2015) as GS R17 for U16 female.

 

See page 4:  http://www.fis-ski.com/mm/Document/documentlibrary/AlpineSkiing/04/31/04/Competitionequipment_1415_clean_Neutral.pdf

 

Confusing to say the least.  Like chanwmr, I'm hoping I don't need to replace GS skis again this year.  Can any of the guru's out there shed some light on the ever changing/confusing rules?  My daughter will only be skiing USSA events, most likely all non-scored events. It seems like USSA would be a tad more lax for that scenario and allow existing GS R17 equipment.  If anyone can shed some light on this, it would be much appreciated.

 

Edit: To further confuse the subject, the alpine competition book shows "no rule' for U16 USSA.

See page 134: http://alpine.usskiteam.com/sites/default/files/documents/athletics/compservices/2013-14/documents/2014_alpine_book.pdf

:dunno

post #9 of 25
Well, that competition guide is last year's, and the equipment info is this year's.
post #10 of 25

This topic is usually discussed at the fall updates in October/November. My update is in mid-November. In years past, they kept strict to the rules for FIS races. For USSA races, whether scored or not scored, this issue tends to be up to the region and/or state. Before you purchase any equipment, it is best to check with your local program coaches first and then your state chair.

post #11 of 25
@yrless11, what region are you in? I'm no expert, but if your daughter is only in unscored races, then unless she's a top finisher and some parent makes an issue, I don't think they're going to be checking this at the start. As for technicalities, the USSA spec will meet the FIS spec, but be a disadvantage in a FIS race. Since she's not racing FIS, then you've only got to worry about other competitors ignoring the spec for USSA and gaining an advantage on turnier course sets. At least, as I read it. Talk to the coach.
post #12 of 25

My daughter is in Region 3.  Since we're not in the mountains, the sets are typically a bit turnier.  A R17 would probably be considered an advantage.  Since my daughter will be racing non-scored events primarily, it likely won't be an issue.  I do intend to check with the coaches to see what they recommend before doing anything.  I was hoping there might be some experts here that could shed some light on the topic.  Typically, the local ski shops have racer pricing in early October so I'm hoping to get this figured out before then.  Thanks.

post #13 of 25
Well, based on this page, one of these people must know:
Central ACC (Athletic Competition Council) Board Members:
Mark Janssen
Cathy Janowiak
Scott Winquist
Keegan Janowiak
post #14 of 25

The new equipment requirements for U16s is really problematic for us, particularly for the GS rules (no length limitation, but 21m radius). My daughter is young (late November birthday) and already small for her age. She's only 4'11" and 95 lbs soaking wet. What I found out tonight at the race night at the local ski shop is that no manufacturer has 21m radius GS skis smaller than 175cm. Have you ever seem 175cm skis next to a 4'11" girl? The 175 skis TOWER over her. I wish they really thought this through before implementing these rules. There are smaller kids in U16 that haven't hit their growth spurts. To arbitrarily require these skis is discouraging any smaller kids from ski racing. 

post #15 of 25

That said, what are the softest race skis at 175? I've heard Dynastar/Rossignol are the softest. 

post #16 of 25

Getting 21m GS skis for a jr body type will be tough. Like Han Kim, my daughter is tiny. In fact, even shorter measuring at 4'9" (but mine is bit stockier). And, she is a second year so she's likely fully grown.

 

These new rules (or FIS rules in general) are tailored towards upper medium to large kids. This presents a real disadvantage for us. To call it unfair is an understatement. But, such is life.

 

I have looked at Nordica's jr racer so far because that's all my kids have used and liked. I think I have seen one, a ~170cm pair of GS. Han is right. A to-spec GS for that age will tower a kid my daughter's size. And, we thought the 181cm SG was crazy last season. Even with that aside, we may now have no choice but to go to another brand so that turning can be more effective, if we decide to continue racing that is.

post #17 of 25

Most of the reps at the race night were in agreement. In fact, one of them is going to have dinner with Tiger Shaw, and he took a picture of my daughter with a pair of 175s to show him. We'll see if that makes any difference (I kinda doubt it will).

post #18 of 25

Email just in from USSA regarding U14/U16 equipment:

"As FIS introduced new rules for U14 and U16 racers for 2014/15, a proposal was passed at the 2014 USSA Congress in the Alpine Sports Committee to implement ski dimension regulations down to the U14 level of USSA ski racing. These standards were created in cooperation with representatives from the ski industry to progress athletes gradually from U14 to U18 standards, and were distributed widely in June 2014.

Unfortunately, at this point in time, the recommended skis are not widely available for purchase everywhere across the country. Given the difficulty some athletes are having acquiring skis that meet the new standards, a recommendation has been made to the Alpine Sports Committee to amend the equipment rules to the following:

U16 and U14 athletes may use the equipment of their choice in 2014/15, EXCEPT for athletes competing at the U16 National Championship and Assessment Project, where the standards in the matrix must be adhered to. In addition, any athletes participating in NTG projects in Europe will also be expected to use skis conforming to these standards.

The alpine equipment guide may be viewed here: http://alpine.usskiteam.com/alpine- programs/athletes/rules

It is the firm conviction of the coaching staff of the U.S. Ski Team and USSA development staff that athletes wishing to pursue ski racing at the FIS level should follow the guidelines passed in May.

Patrick Riml
Alpine Director
US Ski & Snowboard Association
1 Victory Lane, Box 100
Park City, UT 84060
o. 435.647.2020 / c. 435.714.2932 / f. 435 940 2760 priml@ussa.org"
post #19 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by yrless11 View Post
 

Email just in from USSA regarding U14/U16 equipment:


Well, I guess that seriously cuts down on "athletes wishing to pursue ski racing at the FIS level"...

post #20 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by yrless11 View Post
 

Email just in from USSA regarding U14/U16 equipment:


Of course that decision came out from USSA AFTER a lot of race parents spent BIG bucks buying their U14 & U16 racers what was mandatory new equipment. Now, we are going to have kids, who have the new skis, attempting to figure them out while racing this season, and the kids who waited allowed to use their familar equipment from last season! I've been talking to some of my race parents who are as mad as a nest of hornets over this. Some of them have already sold their kids old "illegal" equipment off and spent thousands on something that isn't needed this season! A few of them have already threatened to pull their kids out of racing if USSA keeps this up. I told them that the eariler their kids get on the straighter skis, the better off they will be for the future years, and this is only a 1 year reprieve from USSA. I fully expect USSA to enforce the new regulations next season, unless of course the management at USSA changes their mind again....

post #21 of 25

A quick look at the various companies shows that a couple have met these guidelines for some time now, and others not as much. Hopefully the gear that was purchased this year meets the standards for upcoming years.  I agree with @CaptainKirk, especially for the second years, going to a longer radius ski will benefit the athletes in the long run.

 

In my experience the kids don't even notice the radius marked on the skis (but we as parents sure do).  Our kids (boys) used 165/17m then 175 23m jr gs's as U14s and 183/24m then188/30m women's FIS skis as U16s because that was the radius for the right length ski, and they didn't mention the radius of the skis.  I think the more important thing is to not jump to too stiff of a ski too soon, before the athlete can bend it... 

post #22 of 25
A question which has been asked before on Epic without a clear answer is the confusing use of the symbols <= and >= for ski width under foot. Why does it go one way for SL skis and the other way for GS/SG/DH?
post #23 of 25
So, SL skis you're allowed 63 or greater, but the faster events it must be 65 or less. Seems a bit odd to have such a narrow difference, all I can think of is...

In slalom faster edge to edge, therefore narrower, would seem to be desirable anyway. So, not a lot of likelihood that someone would want 100 underfoot. So you get a lot of lee way, because wide is not helpful.

And in the faster events, it's going to be hard to buy too skinny a ski once you say the upper end is 65. I guess with stand height restrictions someone might want to help with boot out by substituting width so they could get lower? And they are preventing that work around? Maybe getting too low is a safety issue?

Interested to hear from someone in the know.
post #24 of 25
I did some more research. It seems that there used to be a minimum ski width for GS/SG/DH but in the most recent set of rule changes it was switched around to be a maximum. But for SL there is still a minimum.so the table is correct. But why things have gone this way is still a bit of a mystery to me.
post #25 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperkub View Post

I did some more research. It seems that there used to be a minimum ski width for GS/SG/DH but in the most recent set of rule changes it was switched around to be a maximum. But for SL there is still a minimum.so the table is correct. But why things have gone this way is still a bit of a mystery to me.


It's for "safety", in the minds of FIS.

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