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Comparing two bump lines

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 

Hi guys, 

 

I'm on a bump kick... Here are two potential bump lines. One involves turning around the arc of the bumps using the shoulders and backsides. The other is nearly the same, but involves turning against the arcs of the bumps. When you compare these two line choices, what challenges or issues emerge in each?

All things being equal, which is the easier line to ski?

Which is the faster line? 

 

Line 1: travelling mostly around the arc of the bump

 

Line 2: travelling mostly against the arc of the bump

post #2 of 16

The second one is easier if the backsides are icy.  In soft snow it doesn't matter, at least not for me.

post #3 of 16

Hey Met check out in my other post the video I posted of Tomas skiing bumps, he has an interesting line when he skis bumps.

post #4 of 16
Ms. q is a biology professor. Your bumps look like they came from a cell textbook. Cool.

Anyway, just on my phone here, but to me the first line tends to be more natural, in part because it amplifies or works with the normal direction of tipping. Basically if you take that line and keep your skis flat they'll still end up auto-tipped in right relation to the snow. By contrast, the other line - which is kind of a toned down zipper line - tends to put you on the "off" edge.

Moreover, the first line provides more opportunity to use terrain for speed control and thus for skiing with a tail-following-tip pattern. The second line seems to encourage more sideslip-y movement of the skis down the mini fall line represented by side of the bump, even while the tips are pointed down the overall fall line.

Not making value judgments here; just thinking out loud because I'm interested in this too.
post #5 of 16

It's hard to say since you only have the bumps in 2-d. The second one starts out with a fast line but then runs into the faces of bumps and over the top. Nearer the bottom you're going directly top to top which is not bad if there's a "bridge" which often forms in bumps, but if you're hitting a wall that's tough.

 

Skiing top to top on the bridges can be an odd experience. Feels like you're way up high. Some people call it the "anti line". It can look odd too. I've actually had someone yell from the lift "you're doing it wrong!". It does feel odd though and requires a quick turn on the top and it's slower than other lines. Bridges are not always there in enough spots to maintain a line either.

post #6 of 16
So what was the feedback from your bump skiing out at Whistler? Maybe topic for another thread?
post #7 of 16

Neither line looks that fast or easy to ski, but I agree with @Tog it's hard to say in 2-d.

 

Are write in candidates allowed?  Or is this a lesser of two evils contest?  :) 

post #8 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by tball View Post
 

Neither line looks that fast or easy to ski, but I agree with @Tog it's hard to say in 2-d.

 

Are write in candidates allowed?  Or is this a lesser of two evils contest?  :) 

 

Hey tball, I want to see it even if Metaphor_ doesn't. 

post #9 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post
 

Nearer the bottom you're going directly top to top which is not bad if there's a "bridge" which often forms in bumps, but if you're hitting a wall that's tough.

 

 

Yeah. That's what's so hard about having this conversation on line. Every bump run is different both from other bump runs and even from bump to bump internally. Snow texture plays a huge role too, in that I will ski a faster, straighter line if there is a lot of soft stuff to slow me down and more conservative line if everything is hard. (I remember way too vividly at the Utah Gathering diving into a field of big bumps with a lot of confidence, in front of several other Bears who are superb skiers, because there was 4 or 5 inches of fluff, and was horrified to realize by the second "turn" - i.e., flail - that it was super-light blower on top of rock-hard frozen granular, and it did nothing - and I mean NOTHING to help control my speed. :eek)  I think in reality if I get into a groove with a certain pattern that I'm liking in the moment I'll adjust my line a bit to find the bumps that suit the pattern. E.g., ones with a bridge. But that can bite you if you're inflexible and insist on maintaining the pattern even when you can't find a bump that suits the pattern. You end up turn shopping - death in bumps - or else using the wrong pattern for the micro-terrain at hand. So perhaps you could say that the overarching bump tactic is to be flexible from moment to moment about the kind of line you take.

 

As a relevant aside, It kind of drives me nuts when I see that so many of the on-line and in-magazine examples for how to ski bumps are shot in supremely forgiving snow conditions. You can cheat a LOT if everything is really soft and round, and then when you get the real deal you realize you don't have the most solid habits.

 

Metaphor_, connecting with your other "bump ski" thread: When VinceK successfully got his PSIA L3 last month, he was on Blizzard Supersonics, which are kind of a combi civilian race carver. (I spent two days with him and his dad before the exam, at the Loaf, as part of the NE Gathering, and we were skiing a fair amount of bumps.) I have the same skis and can say that they are definitely easier in bumps than your Fischer RCs, but still too high-strung and edgy to be MY pick for skiing moguls. YMMV. I might say something different if I were as talented and young as Vince.

post #10 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

So what was the feedback from your bump skiing out at Whistler? Maybe topic for another thread?

 

Course starts tomorrow, I'm just thinking about these things after having skied a few more big bump runs.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tball View Post
 

Neither line looks that fast or easy to ski, but I agree with @Tog it's hard to say in 2-d.

 

Are write in candidates allowed?  Or is this a lesser of two evils contest?  :) 

 

Go for it!

 

Initially I wanted to get folks thoughts on skiing with versus against the contour of the bump. I find skiing the contour feels easier on a flat pitch. However, on a steep pitch in big bumps, you will accelerate too fast if you're just skiing the contours. Plus no bump run I've ever seen has a nice set of perfectly linkable contours... 

post #11 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaphor_ View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tball View Post
 

Neither line looks that fast or easy to ski, but I agree with @Tog it's hard to say in 2-d.

 

Are write in candidates allowed?  Or is this a lesser of two evils contest?  :) 

 

Go for it!

 

 

Cool, thanks.  Do you have a blank canvas we can start from?

post #12 of 16
Thread Starter 

OK, here's the Inkscape file (free open source app) and a .png for folks who are more comfortable with other tools (should load in Windows Paint, etc). Also since there wasn't much detail about the bump shapes in the original, I added more contour colour (blue zones are peaks, whites are valleys)

 

 

bumps-blank.png 584k .png file

bumps-blank.zip 4k .zip file

post #13 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by qcanoe View Post

Ms. q is a biology professor. Your bumps look like they came from a cell textbook. Cool.

 

looks exactly like the doodles I wasted time making while in university. Never did find that perfect line in pencil. Time spent on bumps worked a lot better. But the line that works always has a lot of variables, and its your reaction to each of them. Not everyone has either the same reaction speeds or body type so no particular style or line is the "best" way to zipper bumps. Work on what compliments your style and ramp it up as fast as you can. There is a shortage of decent bump runs so if your doing the same ones over and over try other styles to make it more challenging

Mix up your skis as often as you can. That forces you out of your comfort zone and as a bonus there is a ski out there which will match both your

style and rythym perfectly. Just don't believe anyone who says they know which one it is.

Good luck it's a great sensation making zipper lines, it seems to be a fading art, more bumpers needed..

post #14 of 16

@TDK started a similar thread a few years ago. it is one of the longest thread of all time in this forum, but there is some useful information before it became a train wreck.

 

http://www.epicski.com/t/89620/bumps-and-line-selection-ski-bumps-like-a-pro

post #15 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamt View Post
 

@TDK started a similar thread a few years ago. it is one of the longest thread of all time in this forum, but there is some useful information before it became a train wreck.

 

http://www.epicski.com/t/89620/bumps-and-line-selection-ski-bumps-like-a-pro

 

Thumbs Up

post #16 of 16

 

A few disclaimers... First: this was done by request and with permission :)

 

Second: I am blessed to ski in the land of wonderful bumps at Mary Jane, Copper and A-basin.   We usually have great lines with nice snow.  I'll usually try to ski similar lines to these when the snow is firm, mostly for the challenge, but I'll also change it up and try to turn wherever I can find soft snow.

 

Third disclaimer:  I'm just a hack who likes to ski bumps, not an instructor, coach or competitor (unless you count a couple amateur college bump comps over 20 years ago).

 

That said, here are a few roughly drawn lines, the first being the zipper line.  I'm always looking for a good zipper line, and when available it's my duty to ski it!  When not available, I'll usually try to make one out of what is available.  For me, a good zipper line is usually the easiest (least effort) and fastest way down the hill.  If the snow is firm, I'll probably move over from the "big boy" zipper line to another zipperline with ruts that are not as deep.

 

 

Second is a more rounded line.   This is a slower, easy going line I'll sometimes take.  I've been skiing this a lot recently on my fat (110mm) rockered skis at the end of a powder day.  Unless there is a lot of new snow, my fat skis are just too much work and too slow edge to edge to ski the zipperline for very long.  This is a great line for folks learning bumps, as it's easy to control your speed, and even stop on the back side of each bump if you like.

 

 

 

I also enjoy a fast GS line when the snow and bumps allow it.  This is often possible at the top or on the side of a bump runs where the bumps are smaller and more spread out. Fortunately, we seldom get ice patches between sparse bumps, otherwise this line isn't any fun.

 

 

That's just the way I think about it.   @Bob Barnes has thought this a whole lot more, and put together a great video showing a whole bunch of different lines and folks skiing them nicely:

 

 

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