Originally Posted by qcanoe
Let's leave aside for the moment the question of whether the classic "beer tray" is a more effective device than "lunch tray." I'm genuinely curious about this from the other side of the coaching equation. Isn't it possible that the butt back / static arms thing, if it happens, can be a transient part of a useful stepping stone moment, as regards learning what meaningful counter feels like? I know it's true for me - and suspect it's true for most students - that I often think I'm making a movement when really I'm only making it with 20% of the amplitude really required to make it effective. Part of the point of drills like the beer tray is to kind of force the student into an understanding of how big a change is involved. Right? "Oh! That much! Okay. I get it now. Wow." Just because my body has stuff to learn about skiing doesn't mean I'm stupid about how teaching and learning work. I know it's a device and that I'm not literally supposed to ski like a waiter. The lesson I hear is, "let's try this to see if you can get the general feeling." I can only focus on one thing at a time. Once I'm getting the feel for that one thing, you can tweak of other stuff to get things into balance and proportion. Like, "the tray is only 18 inches deep and the near edge is grazing your ribs." More or less. If the beer tray causes the adverse effects you describe, why don't other drills? What's a better way to teach this?
I guess one reason this has caught my attention is that I have many ski friends - including people on my beer league team who ostensibly would like to improve their skiing and thus their results - who have exactly this issue, and I suspect that something with the word "beer" in it is likely to get their defenses down and minds open more easily than something that sounds abstract and academic like "picture frame" or whatever.
Again, not criticizing your take on this, marko. I'm not an instructor. I just really want to know.
Q, I think the answer depend largely on what an instructor would consider learning, is it merely application of movement, monkey see monkey do, etc or is it to generate a person's ability to expand their own image, not moving with some other person's thoughts directing their consciousness but being able to use themselves. I agree with Mark in the sense that any directive is poorly applied if it does not generate interest for the student, drills are creation of constraints in how we move, the constraint is created to lead to an increase in the sensation and feedback from various parts of the body depending on the drill, once the sensory report is expanded then its back to skiing out of a drill "form" and trying to make the connection in how we use our body.
I think more and more, maybe it is cultural, people are convinced they can't change themselves, they pay for someone else to fill their heads with pre-thought thoughts, it why they latch onto seemingly strange advice or create a strange constructs of advice, the reality is most want nothing to do with feeling, they want to look "right" ASAP, it has little to do with personal development and more with external image creation