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Which powder ski to demo in Europe?

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 

Hi,

 

After some great advice on demoing allmountain skis last fall (tested a bunch and bought the Nordica Hell & Back last winter), I now have a question on a nice powder ski to go with the HB.

 

I ski in the Alps. I'm 6', 185 lbs and I am a level 7-8 skier. I love the Hell & Back to bits, but on the very deep and soft stuff and in bumps or uneven terrain they tend to hook up in the tail. So I am looking for a playful, easy to ski ski with tail rocker and some great float. I'm not very speedy, just want something easy goning for the soft/fresh sno days (for everything else, I have the HB's).

 

I was thinking Atomic Automatic (186), after reading reviews on this and other websites.

 

Any other suggestions? I like light, flexible and manoeuverable.

 

So, which skis should I really (try to) demo next fall?

 

Nordica Patron? K2 Shreditor? Fischer Big Stix? Salomon Rocker2?

 

Thanks

 

By the way: DPS, Praxis, 4frnt, Faction, Black Crows are not widely available in Europe, so I will probably not be able to demo them.


Edited by Cheizz - 4/14/14 at 12:50pm
post #2 of 20
Thread Starter 

No one?

post #3 of 20
Is there powder in Europe? Jk.

Hook up? Not sure what you mean by that, maybe because my moguls are usually in the trees and not remotely evenly spaced but usually soft, so maybe I'm not aware of it.

Josh Matta and a friend of mine who has the H&B both love the Patron. I've never been on it because my H&B is sufficient. I don't like to spend money on skis that I might only use three days and generally I have only the foggiest idea what conditions will be like in the AM when I'm at my locker. Don't like returning to switch skis. We don't get waist deep stuff here and it's rarely that down-like stuff either where it's like skiing on air and you can't see the trees stumps but you'll still smack into them because the snow won't support you. My friends with the Patrons really doesn't need them in my opinion. He's a little guy who is influenced by reading about skis. His wife bought the woman's equivalent and sold them after a week. Not versatile enough for most days according to her. And really, she's little as well, so she didn't need them.

I think if you only ski one resort or region you don't need as many skis as if you fly around a lot.

So, try the Patron and I'd try the Soul 7. I don't think it has tail rocker, but it's not clear to me what the tail would be hooking up on in deep powder.
post #4 of 20
Edited _ wrong account
Edited by Karlyboogy - 4/18/14 at 3:24pm
post #5 of 20
Thread Starter 
The stiffish flat tail is not ideal in bumps and in uneven terrain (and there's a lot of that out here), that's why I think a more pivoty, less serious ski with some tail rocker would complement my HBs nicely.
post #6 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheizz View Post

I like light, flexible and manoeuverable.

Automatic, Quest 115, Patron should be right up your alley!

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheizz View Post
 

By the way: DPS, Praxis, 4frnt, Faction, Black Crows are not widely available in Europe, so I will probably not be able to demo them.

Aren't faction and black crows European? It's weird to think they are not widely available in there

post #7 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfa81 View Post
 

Aren't faction and black crows European? It's weird to think they are not widely available in there

They're available, but not so much for demoing. And since demoing skis isn't as wide spread in Europe as it is in the US - it seems - demoing the smaller brands is almost impossible. I'll be lucky if there is a demo weekend that has two of the three skis that you mentioned.

 

But thanks for the suggestions/confirmations.

post #8 of 20

WhiteDot Skis have demo shops in Chamonix, Verbier (?) and Mayrhofen.

Brack Crows - dunno about their origins, but they are quite popular in France.

post #9 of 20

One of our testers was super impressed with the Idris skis in Chamonix this winter.

Look them up while you are shopping around!

 

Tell Tom Greenall ExoticSkis sent you!

http://www.idriskis.com/

post #10 of 20
Thread Starter 

So, I've been reading up on the Automatic, the Armada JJ, the Nordica Patron and the Salomon Q115.

 

The realtively uneven flex of the Patron (stiffer underfoot and really soft at the extremities) and my own experience on Salomon skis such as the piste skis and the Q98 (I find them scratching the snow rather than carving it on-piste and I get bumped around a lot in the terrain and crappy cruddy stuff) makes me think the Automatic or the JJ could be the playful, easy soft snow/powder ski to make a two-ski quiver with my Hell&Backs. 

 

So, has anyone skied both the JJ and the Automatic and could compare the two? In reviews, I read the Automatic is a bit more stable at speed than the JJ, but also they ski better at higher speeds than while going slow (and I don't really go fast off-piste). Also, which of the two is damper? I like some absorption of the terrain, since my knees are not the strongest.

 

Anyone?

post #11 of 20

I have 193 Autos, but have never skied the JJ.  For powder, I really like the Auto and on soft groomers it works well also.  No comments on mogul use, as I stay away from moguls on a 193 ski.  Have you read the reviews on Blister Gear .com?

post #12 of 20
Thread Starter 

Yes I have, and a bunch of others as well. Just looking for some experience with both skis.

post #13 of 20

Well then, I honestly do not think either ski would be a bad choice.  If you haven't already, look at the Tech Talk forum at www.tetongravity.com and search that forum for JJ and Auto reviews.  There should be a bunch, as many guys there ski one or the other.  I have Armada TST's, which are very fun skis, which also have a similar outline to the JJ.  There is little doubt in my mind I would like the AK JJ for pow, as much as I like my Autos.  Neither has to be driven fast to excel in pow and both are very turny/slarvy.  I like those features in a powder ski.

post #14 of 20
have you tried any burlier pow skis? I'm a little surprised that someone who likes the h&b (assuming you do) wouldn't look for something stiffer to be your second pair.
post #15 of 20
Thread Starter 

Well, the H&B is my 'serious' ski for higher speeds, big turns etc. I actually want a more playful, turny ski for the fun stuff in the soft snow, trees etc. Last winter, my H&B proved to be a bit of a handful in knee-deep heavy wet European powder. I have to speed up to make them work well in deep snow, but in many European places there simply isn't the room to open up all the time. Hence my quest for something smearier, turnier and more manoeuverable.

post #16 of 20

Just tried the new shape Whitedot Director in the Carbonlite layup and it's a right giggle. Soft bumps, windbuff. general spring snow malarkey handled with ease.  Not super fat but the new nose shape and rocker profile is a massive improvement on the earlier incarnation.  Go long in length as effective edge is tiny.  Bigger bro the Redeemer might be worth a try if you're after tooling up for deeper conditions or for a ski that is seriously fun but breaks all the rules the Movement Flyswatter.

post #17 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatbob View Post
 

Just tried the new shape Whitedot Director in the Carbonlite layup and it's a right giggle. Soft bumps, windbuff. general spring snow malarkey handled with ease.  Not super fat but the new nose shape and rocker profile is a massive improvement on the earlier incarnation.  Go long in length as effective edge is tiny.  Bigger bro the Redeemer might be worth a try if you're after tooling up for deeper conditions or for a ski that is seriously fun but breaks all the rules the Movement Flyswatter.


How have they changed the shape from the older version?  I have a pink pair, and I'm curious to hear how they compare.

 

I also thought that the Carbonlight Redeemer might be a wicked pow/touring ski.

post #18 of 20

Carbonlite Redeemer is a fun powder ski...definitely worth a demo and good pricing can be found with a little hunting about:

Review:

http://www.epicski.com/t/119400/review-2013-2014-whitedot-redeemer-shootout-std-vs-carbonlite

post #19 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caucasian Asian View Post
How have they changed the shape from the older version?  I have a pink pair, and I'm curious to hear how they compare.


Well, here is the response I got from WD during their recent samples sale:

 

Glad to answer any specific questions you might have and maybe I can fill you in on a few of the changes we've made to the 14/15 Director?

 

We've kept the rocker profile from the previous version as well as the flat camber, but we've increased the tip and tail height so you will find as far as profile goes the new 191 is very similar to your 188's. The flex pattern is similar also; the 191 is not stiffer than the 188, just more rounded and progressive in feel.

 

Where the most obvious change is in the sidecut. We've extended the contact points and widest part of the sidecut towards the extremes of the ski, this has the benefit of increased edge hold on hard snow and better float in powder due to the bigger surface area. As the ski works better on hard snow it also has a more lively and "poppy" feel than the previous version. You'll also see each size has a slightly different sidecut measurement, for example the 191cm measures 136-107-126 whilst the 181cm is 134-107-124 and the 151cm is 130-104-120, this keeps the turn radius and thus ski properties similar across the board.

 

Lastly the other obvious difference is the recommended mounting point, which we have moved forward in the new model. I believe your 188cm would be approximately 8.5cm behind the centre of the ski, whereas the 191cm we recommend mounting them -5cm from the centre. This has some benefits in that the longer ski feels shorter due to having less nose, which makes the ski easy to initiate the turn, it also feels very natural in the air and balanced on the snow!

 

Hope this helps, and of course if there is anything else I can help outwith please feel free to ask!

post #20 of 20

Yep - hard to describe but the old Director lacked "punch" in the nose as the wide point was too far back compared to other skis in the same waist width bracket. So moving the widepoint forward together with a more forward mount seemed to fix the problem as well as (at least in the Carbonlite) creating a very agile, swivel your hips and go, rollerblade type feel.

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