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Ski tune questions--bevel etc

post #1 of 8
Thread Starter 
I just bought a pair of demo Rossignol Experience 88 170 cm. given they were demos, I took them in tonight for a ski tune, the 65$ one: http://www.mountainshop.net/blog/?page_id=10

Here are some questions:
1) As an intermediate skier who wants to get more into carving( and has some balance challenges) what base/edge bevel would you recommend? I'm leaning towards 1-2. The shop normally does 1-1. The pros of a 1-2 is that the ski will hold an edge better, yes? What are the disadvantages?

2) Is detuning a good idea?

3) Because I'm only going to ski twice prior to moving to Colorado, the shop is going to do a base grind texture suitable for Colorado snow, but then put a warm weather wax on which will work for me as I'm still skiing in the wet snow PNW. Will this set up work out alright?
post #2 of 8

1) there are lots of threads here and other internet references on edge bevels, but yeah, 1-2 is a pretty standard recommendation for an all-mountain ski. the only real disadvantage is that it wears down a little more quickly, but it'll grip better.

 

2) not really experienced enough to answer, but i think it depends on what kind of skiing you're doing and on the ski itself. my understanding is that people detune rockered skis to avoid having the tips grab on hardpack. so with the E88, maybe a little for the tip rocker? don't take my word for it though.

 

3) don't know...but probably. i'm not sure why it wouldn't.

 

also, i just wanted to say that $65 is a ridiculous price for a tune.

post #3 of 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by folkfan View Post

I just bought a pair of demo Rossignol Experience 88 170 cm. given they were demos, I took them in tonight for a ski tune, the 65$ one: http://www.mountainshop.net/blog/?page_id=10

Here are some questions:
1) As an intermediate skier who wants to get more into carving( and has some balance challenges) what base/edge bevel would you recommend? I'm leaning towards 1-2. The shop normally does 1-1. The pros of a 1-2 is that the ski will hold an edge better, yes? What are the disadvantages?

2) Is detuning a good idea?

3) Because I'm only going to ski twice prior to moving to Colorado, the shop is going to do a base grind texture suitable for Colorado snow, but then put a warm weather wax on which will work for me as I'm still skiing in the wet snow PNW. Will this set up work out alright?

 

Let me direct you here good sir.  http://www.epicski.com/f/37/tuning-maintenance-and-repairs

 

I have the E88.  1-2 is what you want, de-tune tips and tails.  Any good shop should do that without asking though, especially for $65.

post #4 of 8
It looks like for customer spec edges, they want $85???

Seriously, learn to do all this yourself. At $85 you'd have a good start on your own complete tuning setup.

Detuning is currently not something you do, but the word is used sometimes for putting an increased base bevel on rockered skis in some parts of the ski. Detuning really means dulling the edge. You don't want that, but you could want a slightly increased base bevel near your tips. I know A-man will jump in here... So exiting before incurring his wrath.
post #5 of 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

It looks like for customer spec edges, they want $85???

Seriously, learn to do all this yourself. At $85 you'd have a good start on your own complete tuning setup.

Detuning is currently not something you do, but the word is used sometimes for putting an increased base bevel on rockered skis in some parts of the ski. Detuning really means dulling the edge. You don't want that, but you could want a slightly increased base bevel near your tips. I know A-man will jump in here... So exiting before incurring his wrath.

I might add that there's no reason to do anything other than a standard, single bevel tune unless the tips and/or tails are hooking or grabbing. Do the standard tune, don't detune the edges, ski on them, then decide if there's a problem to fix.  And find a shop that will do a standard, 1deg/2deg tune, without detuning, for less than $65. Around Tahoe I pay max $50, and my favorite shop charges $30 for grind and edges, if I do the wax myself.

post #6 of 8
Quote:
 I might add that there's no reason to do anything other than a standard, single bevel tune unless the tips and/or tails are hooking or grabbing. Do the standard tune, don't detune the edges, ski on them, then decide if there's a problem to fix.  And find a shop that will do a standard, 1deg/2deg tune, without detuning

 

Yes.

 

1) Experience 88 from the factory is beveled 1-2, but as a demo that angle might have been changed. The 88 is used by lots of pros because it will carve well moving slow or fast, and at different turn radii, great for giving lessons. The 1-2 bevel helps the 88 to have a smooth, better carve, in my experience. (I have the Experience 98, which has the same bevel angles.)

 

Whether a sharper bevel like the 1-2 wears out quicker is very much open to debate on this forum, as many posts will attest. The preponderance of opinion, and my own experience, seems to be that there is no appreciably greater wear between 1-1. 1-2, and 1-3.

 

I've heard that skiing water-sprayed ice slalom courses in important "practice runs" here in Colorado, top level racers have wrecked top of the line slalom skis in a day by using bevels as high as 1-7; but for the ranges of bevel angles up to 1-3 there is not much difference in wear rate. 

 

2) As the quote says, set the bevels, then ski them, to see if your skis already handle well. If they do, this will give you more carving length. If not, I try to just re-enforce the tip bevels with a ceramic stone, and make sure there isn't an edge burr near the tip with the same tool, a gummy or an Arkansas stone. With most skis, that is enough. 

 

3) The base prep you describe will work well, if they get the grind right. But with a good waxing, "new ski" smooth bases work well in Colorado, IMHO, for the recreational skier. 


Edited by ski otter - 4/8/14 at 12:18pm
post #7 of 8
That price threw me too, but according to the website it's an a to z tune topped off by a hand hot wax.

I was told the 88s come with 1 and 1, but no matter; the 88s I demoed were tuned at 1 base and 2 side, and were very sweet to ski. That's my standard tune, and while a 3 degree tune might be better on ice, 2 degrees is generally fine for Utah conditions. I might give 3 degrees a try if we have another dry icy early winter next season, though.

Did they say what structure they were using? I got burned recently with a totally wrong structure, so hopefully your shop's idea of what's appropriate for Colorado is accurate. Others can correct me, but I'd think you'd want a light fine or medium fine structure for cold dry snow next November.
post #8 of 8

My bad. Checked my new Rossi Super 7s, and they are 1 and 1, so my 98's were probably 1 and 1 also when new, and I changed them myself and forgot. So factory 1 and 1 on Rossis. 

 

By the way, just read your thread about whether to get the Exp 88s, and how you got em.  I have skied several times here in Colorado with a guy who skis the 88s, a wonderful skier on those suckers! He's a retired Copper Mt. exec with 30+ years working there, very experienced, 100+ days on his skis every year. He's a big guy, so his skis are longer.

He said the deciding factor for him with the 88s was that they carve any radius turn at will, any speed.  He's usually one of the fastest, best skiers on the mountain, very powerful style. Lots of turns. 

Good luck with your new(er) skis!

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