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Ski stabilitty and skier weight - Page 2

post #31 of 57
Thread Starter 

Hey all,

Sorry for the slow reply.

 

I did see a "Harb Systems" alignment guy, who made me custom insoles which have greatly improved my skiing, I think.

 

I do have a leg length discrepancy, somewhere around or over a half inch.  I haven't had a shim or anything put in, so that leg length discrepancy is still impacting my skiing.

 

When I talked about natural limitations, I meant that the left side of my body including my left leg are slightly less sensitive than the right side.  The leg length discrepancy is a functional difference  (due to atrophied muscles in my left hip, I believe).  This has all been discussed with multiple physicians, etc, so no need to go into the medical diagnoses.  This doesn't create huge functional problems for me.  It does mean that my balance on my left leg is way worse than my right leg.  It's also frustrating because it means that if I work out, I can feel my right leg becoming fatigued, but not so much with my left leg--there's less sensation there.  Therefore, even though I am not currently working out or actively trying to improve my balance, I think there are limitations in terms of how far I can go, ie. my right and left side will never have equal strength or sensitivity.

 

I would like to work to improve my balance, strength, etc, and I do think this would improve my skiing.  Any thoughts about this would be appreciated--and I'm happy to clarify anything that seems unclear.

 

Matt

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by litterbug View Post


I didn't say the OP has an alignment problem, and nothing he said indicates he does. He describes it as a physical limitation causing muscle weakness, andI think we can do him the service of believing him. I responded to his idea of correcting bad turns on one side by manipulating his ski tune rather than dealing with the problem more directly (which is actually a clever idea, but not likely to work).

I assumed he was familiar with his issue, and that one of the many things I threw out there would ring a bell for him. I admit that I got caught up in gear (tune) vs gear (boots) in talking about what he might do to find out what kinds of things people do to compensate for physical problems, but that's because I like talking about gear more than ski instructors, physical therapy, or yoga classes, all of which are at the top off my list of helpful approaches.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by levy1 View Post

I don't know if he needs aligned or not I just know he needs to get a check first and that out. but it sure sounds like it probably an alignment problem

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by litterbug View Post

Deleted in favour if the real post because I hit submit by mistake on this one, So never mind.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post


Uh... I fit boots. I coach skiers.(yes, you need coaching going by your avatar, even if your alignment is completely dialed in) Did you not understand that I agreed with what you said in post #18?

Once more. Given what we know about the OP, we have NO idea what's going on with his alignment. Or not as might be the case. Could be a leg length discrepancy... Who knows? You don't. I don't either. Sure.. Ask the OP if he's been checked. That's reasonable.
post #32 of 57
That's great. He should have his alignment checkerBoard Matt
I had a dirt bike accident 5years ago. Broke tib fib and ankle. After a couple of years pain I went to a doctor who worked with the OSU football team. He found my leg was 1/2 inch shorter. He had orthodics built and my right one where I had the break was 1/2 inch higher. The minute I wore them in my shoes I knew the problem was solved. As far as skiing I could not carve my right ski the way I wanted to. I had been canted over the years. I went to one of the best, the Boot Dr in Telluride. He realigned me and the result was a perfect carve on my right leg, left turn. He made new footbeds building the 1/2 lift into the Footbed and recanted me. As you see in my avatar I am a high speed Carver with my feet close which is old school but to me I love the feel of the carve. Find a shop who really knows alignment. PM me if you need help with your search. Good luck.
Quote:
Originally Posted by folkfan View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by litterbug View Post

I didn't say the OP has an alignment problem, and nothing he said indicates he does. He describes it as a physical limitation causing muscle weakness, andI think we can do him the service of believing him. I responded to his idea of correcting bad turns on one side by manipulating his ski tune rather than dealing with the problem more directly (which is actually a clever idea, but not likely to work).


I assumed he was familiar with his issue, and that one of the many things I threw out there would ring a bell for him. I admit that I got caught up in gear (tune) vs gear (boots) in talking about what he might do to find out what kinds of things people do to compensate for physical problems, but that's because I like talking about gear more than ski instructors, physical therapy, or yoga classes, all of which are at the top off my list of helpful approaches.

Quote:
Originally Posted by levy1 View Post

I don't know if he needs aligned or not I just know he needs to get a check first and that out. but it sure sounds like it probably an alignment problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by litterbug View Post

Deleted in favour if the real post because I hit submit by mistake on this one, So never mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

Uh... I fit boots. I coach skiers.(yes, you need coaching going by your avatar, even if your alignment is completely dialed in) Did you not understand that I agreed with what you said in post #18?


Once more. Given what we know about the OP, we have NO idea what's going on with his alignment. Or not as might be the case. Could be a leg length discrepancy... Who knows? You don't. I don't either. Sure.. Ask the OP if he's been checked. That's reasonable.
post #33 of 57
How about balance training? Even if you're short on propeioceptors on one side, you may be able to teach your body how to compensate for it.

Don't let the term training put you off, either. Anything from ballroom dance to martial arts to spending several minutes a day fooling around on a Bosu ball while waiting for dinner to cook will help your body with bilateral function. If you want to get serious, I'd say to go back to the PT idea (physical therapists can be very imaginative about this kind of thing), but I think it's more fun to approach it as a challenge. My Bosu lives in the living room, and while I've never done the prescribed workouts, just shifting my weight from foot to foot, doing mini-squats or getting into a tuck and then standing up, or simply rolling my ankles around smoothly makes a surprising difference in how I feel and what happens when I put my skis on.

Before the season starts, look for dry land ski training videos that focus on balance and proprioception, and if you're really nerdy like me you might even enjoy those on-snow drills that so many people hate.

I hope something in there helps...
post #34 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by folkfan View Post
 

Hey all,

Sorry for the slow reply.

 

I did see a "Harb Systems" alignment guy, who made me custom insoles which have greatly improved my skiing, I think.

 

I do have a leg length discrepancy, somewhere around or over a half inch.  I haven't had a shim or anything put in, so that leg length discrepancy is still impacting my skiing.

 

When I talked about natural limitations, I meant that the left side of my body including my left leg are slightly less sensitive than the right side.  The leg length discrepancy is a functional difference  (due to atrophied muscles in my left hip, I believe).  This has all been discussed with multiple physicians, etc, so no need to go into the medical diagnoses.  This doesn't create huge functional problems for me.  It does mean that my balance on my left leg is way worse than my right leg.  It's also frustrating because it means that if I work out, I can feel my right leg becoming fatigued, but not so much with my left leg--there's less sensation there.  Therefore, even though I am not currently working out or actively trying to improve my balance, I think there are limitations in terms of how far I can go, ie. my right and left side will never have equal strength or sensitivity.

 

I would like to work to improve my balance, strength, etc, and I do think this would improve my skiing.  Any thoughts about this would be appreciated--and I'm happy to clarify anything that seems unclear.

 

 

They didn't account for leg length when you got your footbeds? No shims on bindings?

@FairToMiddlin has a leg length issue that's like well over an inch. Has a very big shim under one binding.

 

We've had a member who has a condition where she has no proprioception I guess in her legs. Can't feel much at all. Or sense movement. That's what I remember. Spent years and finally found someone to coach her and got pretty good.

Little Tiger and disski was her previous username. Do a search in the instruction threads. Eventually you'll find where she talks about it.

post #35 of 57

Because your right leg is stronger, it could be automatically compensating and taking work away from you left leg without you realizing it.  This could cause you to have too much weight on your inside (right) ski when turning right. 

 

I suggest you occasionally practice skiing with your right ski off the ground.  I see the kids on the race team practising one ski skiing a lot (opportunity to prove I'm no comic, "Did you lose your ski?", " making your pair last twice as long?", sharing with your brother and could only afford one pair?"...), but there is no real need to go that far, keep both your skis attached so you can catch yourself instead of falling when you lose balance; just lift the right ski off the ground and make a few turns or a run now and then with only the left ski touching snow.

post #36 of 57
If you have a weak side you need to fix that in the gym or someday it will cause other injuries if you're active. I don't know if you've had any yet, but its good to avoid them. A gym membership is much cheaper than a physical therapist too.
post #37 of 57
Clinky, I think we're jumping the shark on this one. Seems the OP has his issues well in hand. I'm sure he'll work on his skiing, especially after his move to CO. smile.gif
post #38 of 57
Thread Starter 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by litterbug View Post

How about balance training? Even if you're short on propeioceptors on one side, you may be able to teach your body how to compensate for it.

Don't let the term training put you off, either. Anything from ballroom dance to martial arts to spending several minutes a day fooling around on a Bosu ball while waiting for dinner to cook will help your body with bilateral function. If you want to get serious, I'd say to go back to the PT idea (physical therapists can be very imaginative about this kind of thing), but I think it's more fun to approach it as a challenge. My Bosu lives in the living room, and while I've never done the prescribed workouts, just shifting my weight from foot to foot, doing mini-squats or getting into a tuck and then standing up, or simply rolling my ankles around smoothly makes a surprising difference in how I feel and what happens when I put my skis on.

Before the season starts, look for dry land ski training videos that focus on balance and proprioception, and if you're really nerdy like me you might even enjoy those on-snow drills that so many people hate.

I hope something in there helps...

Thanks litterbug--that is helpful.  Do you do bosu exercises on one leg only?  I imagine for me it'd be useful to really work on the balance on my left side.  Going the PT route would be smart--I had a PT but had trouble keeping consistent with the exercises.  It'd also be cool to work with PT who really understood my condition.  I do have the PT exercises lying around somewhere, so maybe I should try to restart those.  They had me focusing on core strength, which they said would increase my balance.  I will look for dry land ski training videos--let me know of recommendations.  It'd be a fun way to prepare for the ski season!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by levy1 View Post

That's great. He should have his alignment checkerBoard Matt
I had a dirt bike accident 5years ago. Broke tib fib and ankle. After a couple of years pain I went to a doctor who worked with the OSU football team. He found my leg was 1/2 inch shorter. He had orthodics built and my right one where I had the break was 1/2 inch higher. The minute I wore them in my shoes I knew the problem was solved. As far as skiing I could not carve my right ski the way I wanted to. I had been canted over the years. I went to one of the best, the Boot Dr in Telluride. He realigned me and the result was a perfect carve on my right leg, left turn. He made new footbeds building the 1/2 lift into the Footbed and recanted me. As you see in my avatar I am a high speed Carver with my feet close which is old school but to me I love the feel of the carve. Find a shop who really knows alignment. PM me if you need help with your search. Good luck.

Thanks levy--I do think this is an alignment issue.  Which leg of yours was shorter than the other?  Knowing that info would be super helpful for me.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post
 

 

They didn't account for leg length when you got your footbeds? No shims on bindings?

@FairToMiddlin has a leg length issue that's like well over an inch. Has a very big shim under one binding.

 

We've had a member who has a condition where she has no proprioception I guess in her legs. Can't feel much at all. Or sense movement. That's what I remember. Spent years and finally found someone to coach her and got pretty good.

Little Tiger and disski was her previous username. Do a search in the instruction threads. Eventually you'll find where she talks about it.

Tog--thanks!  I'll look through that.  The dude talked about putting shims on my boot, but he wasn't sure my boot could handle it.  Read my next post for more info.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
 

Because your right leg is stronger, it could be automatically compensating and taking work away from you left leg without you realizing it.  This could cause you to have too much weight on your inside (right) ski when turning right. 

 

I suggest you occasionally practice skiing with your right ski off the ground.  I see the kids on the race team practising one ski skiing a lot (opportunity to prove I'm no comic, "Did you lose your ski?", " making your pair last twice as long?", sharing with your brother and could only afford one pair?"...), but there is no real need to go that far, keep both your skis attached so you can catch yourself instead of falling when you lose balance; just lift the right ski off the ground and make a few turns or a run now and then with only the left ski touching snow.

Ghost--I'll try lifting the right ski up.  But my balance is so poor that I can hardly do this for a few seconds with boots and skis attached.  Just standing barefoot, I can only balance on my left foot for less than 10 seconds.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by clink83 View Post

If you have a weak side you need to fix that in the gym or someday it will cause other injuries if you're active. I don't know if you've had any yet, but its good to avoid them. A gym membership is much cheaper than a physical therapist too.

Clink--as I wrote above, there is no way to fix this problem--my best hope is to learn to manage it the best I can.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

Clinky, I think we're jumping the shark on this one. Seems the OP has his issues well in hand. I'm sure he'll work on his skiing, especially after his move to CO. 

Thanks markojp--I appreciate that.  It means a lot.

post #39 of 57
Thread Starter 

So here's an update after skiing today.

 

Today was my first full day skiing on the 170 cm Experience 88s I spoke about before.  First off, I ended up skiing pretty darn fast in them, 48 MPH according to ski tracks.  Not that my intention was to go fast, but I found that at my fastest, the skis seemed fine and stable, I was  more the one who was feeling nervous and so I hit the brakes.

 

The snow was firm and hard in the morning, and softened up in the sun on Mt. Hood today.  I noticed very quickly a problem I have not experienced with my 171 cm Atomic Access: My inside right ski edge and I think my inside left ski edge both started to engage while the skis were "flat" and I was trying to go straight.

 

I also noticed something else interesting.  When I took a left turn, and my weight was mostly on my inside right edge, my skis were further apart and doing a slight pizza(ie. my skis were not parallel).  When making a right turn,  my weight was on my inside left edge, and my skis were parrallel and the turn felt good.  Keep in mind it's my LEFT leg that's shorter and has poor proprioception. 

 

So given this information, I have the following questions:

 

1)  Does all of this info add up into the problem clearly being my leg length discrepancy and that I need canted boots?  I wondered if what I was noticing might have been related to a subconscious bias towards relying on my right leg, but this doesn't really seem to fit what I noticed.  I recorded two videos which captured what I'm describing.  Would it be helpful for you all to see them?  I can post them in this thread.

 

2) I found both of my inside edges wanted to engage while going straight down a run, making for a tough ride.  I've heard these skis talked about as being "squirrely" at high speeds.  I'm wondering if what I noticed is more directly related to the alignment issue than anything else?

 

3) My skis felt stable even at high speeds today, but I wasn't feeling very secure on the skis at higher speeds.  Could fixing the alignment issue cause these problems?

 

4) My old pair of skis have less of a sidecut are wider, and more powder oriented.  Is this a good explanation for why this alignment issue wasn't as obvious before?

 

5) I notice when I turn right and my weight is on my inside left edge, I have difficulty maintaining the edge, and the ski slides sideways (only at higher speeds).  Is this because of my lack of strength in my left leg?  Or is this problem something that could be fixed with canting?

 

 

6) Finally, the alignment guy I saw in Portland wasn't sure if he could add shims to my boots--which would be ideal because I now have multiple skis.  Should I get that same guy to add shims to my set up before I leave town in two months?  Or would it be way better to waiting until I get to Colorado so that I can go back to whoever I see if my shims need tweaking?  Or would someone out in CO be able to easily adapt my shims from the guy here in Portland?

 

7)  Is there any way I can make a temporary or even longer term home solution to this problem?  I''m thinking adding thickness to the inside of my left boot would do the trick...

 

Lots of questions, and I appreciate any input you all could provide!  It was a fun day on the slopes, and actually somewhat heartening to realize there may be a very conc  rete solution to some of my skiing challenges!

 

Thanks in advance,

Matt

post #40 of 57
My right leg is shorter. As for shims you might not have the right guy as there are several ways to shim
post #41 of 57
so far from what are you saying I'm not sure this guy knows what's going on there are many ways to can't you can go under the binding you can go under the boot. make a new post on here wherever you're at or wherever you're going and ask to find the best boots fitters go to the boot fitting area and put that post up there and you will get your information
Quote:
Originally Posted by folkfan View Post

So here's an update after skiing today.

Today was my first full day skiing on the 170 cm Experience 88s I spoke about before.  First off, I ended up skiing pretty darn fast in them, 48 MPH according to ski tracks.  Not that my intention was to go fast, but I found that at my fastest, the skis seemed fine and stable, I was  more the one who was feeling nervous and so I hit the brakes.

The snow was firm and hard in the morning, and softened up in the sun on Mt. Hood today.  I noticed very quickly a problem I have not experienced with my 171 cm Atomic Access: My inside right ski edge and I think my inside left ski edge both started to engage while the skis were "flat" and I was trying to go straight.

I also noticed something else interesting.  When I took a left turn, and my weight was mostly on my inside right edge, my skis were further apart and doing a slight pizza(ie. my skis were not parallel).  When making a right turn,  my weight was on my inside left edge, and my skis were parrallel and the turn felt good.  Keep in mind it's my LEFT leg that's shorter and has poor proprioception. 

So given this information, I have the following questions:

1)  Does all of this info add up into the problem clearly being my leg length discrepancy and that I need canted boots?  I wondered if what I was noticing might have been related to a subconscious bias towards relying on my right leg, but this doesn't really seem to fit what I noticed.  I recorded two videos which captured what I'm describing.  Would it be helpful for you all to see them?  I can post them in this thread.

2) I found both of my inside edges wanted to engage while going straight down a run, making for a tough ride.  I've heard these skis talked about as being "squirrely" at high speeds.  I'm wondering if what I noticed is more directly related to the alignment issue than anything else?

3) My skis felt stable even at high speeds today, but I wasn't feeling very secure on the skis at higher speeds.  Could fixing the alignment issue cause these problems?

4) My old pair of skis have less of a sidecut are wider, and more powder oriented.  Is this a good explanation for why this alignment issue wasn't as obvious before?

5) I notice when I turn right and my weight is on my inside left edge, I have difficulty maintaining the edge, and the ski slides sideways (only at higher speeds).  Is this because of my lack of strength in my left leg?  Or is this problem something that could be fixed with canting?


6) Finally, the alignment guy I saw in Portland wasn't sure if he could add shims to my boots--which would be ideal because I now have multiple skis.  Should I get that same guy to add shims to my set up before I leave town in two months?  Or would it be way better to waiting until I get to Colorado so that I can go back to whoever I see if my shims need tweaking?  Or would someone out in CO be able to easily adapt my shims from the guy here in Portland?

7)  Is there any way I can make a temporary or even longer term home solution to this problem?  I''m thinking adding thickness to the inside of my left boot would do the trick...

Lots of questions, and I appreciate any input you all could provide!  It was a fun day on the slopes, and actually somewhat heartening to realize there may be a very conc  rete solution to some of my skiing challenges!

Thanks in advance,
Matt
post #42 of 57
back in the old days we used to add 5 quarter inch strips of duct taped to the inside or outside of the foot bed it's a temporary solution. I don't really recommend it for you you need to seek out a professional who knows what he's doing. you put the tape on the side that you want to pick up more edge on. I would put a thick heel lift under insole or Footbed of your left . I am really not comfortable telling you any of this because you need to seek out professional help someone who really knows what they're doing in your case. but there it is if you want to try . at least you'll know if you're going in the right direction but you should never never do this without getting it professionally finished
post #43 of 57
Thread Starter 

Bump.  Does anyone have answers or thoughts on the questions I posed yesterday?

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by folkfan View Post
 

So here's an update after skiing today.

 

Today was my first full day skiing on the 170 cm Experience 88s I spoke about before.  First off, I ended up skiing pretty darn fast in them, 48 MPH according to ski tracks.  Not that my intention was to go fast, but I found that at my fastest, the skis seemed fine and stable, I was  more the one who was feeling nervous and so I hit the brakes.

 

The snow was firm and hard in the morning, and softened up in the sun on Mt. Hood today.  I noticed very quickly a problem I have not experienced with my 171 cm Atomic Access: My inside right ski edge and I think my inside left ski edge both started to engage while the skis were "flat" and I was trying to go straight.

 

I also noticed something else interesting.  When I took a left turn, and my weight was mostly on my inside right edge, my skis were further apart and doing a slight pizza(ie. my skis were not parallel).  When making a right turn,  my weight was on my inside left edge, and my skis were parrallel and the turn felt good.  Keep in mind it's my LEFT leg that's shorter and has poor proprioception. 

 

So given this information, I have the following questions:

 

1)  Does all of this info add up into the problem clearly being my leg length discrepancy and that I need canted boots?  I wondered if what I was noticing might have been related to a subconscious bias towards relying on my right leg, but this doesn't really seem to fit what I noticed.  I recorded two videos which captured what I'm describing.  Would it be helpful for you all to see them?  I can post them in this thread.

 

2) I found both of my inside edges wanted to engage while going straight down a run, making for a tough ride.  I've heard these skis talked about as being "squirrely" at high speeds.  I'm wondering if what I noticed is more directly related to the alignment issue than anything else?

 

3) My skis felt stable even at high speeds today, but I wasn't feeling very secure on the skis at higher speeds.  Could fixing the alignment issue cause these problems?

 

4) My old pair of skis have less of a sidecut are wider, and more powder oriented.  Is this a good explanation for why this alignment issue wasn't as obvious before?

 

5) I notice when I turn right and my weight is on my inside left edge, I have difficulty maintaining the edge, and the ski slides sideways (only at higher speeds).  Is this because of my lack of strength in my left leg?  Or is this problem something that could be fixed with canting?

 

 

6) Finally, the alignment guy I saw in Portland wasn't sure if he could add shims to my boots--which would be ideal because I now have multiple skis.  Should I get that same guy to add shims to my set up before I leave town in two months?  Or would it be way better to waiting until I get to Colorado so that I can go back to whoever I see if my shims need tweaking?  Or would someone out in CO be able to easily adapt my shims from the guy here in Portland?

 

7)  Is there any way I can make a temporary or even longer term home solution to this problem?  I''m thinking adding thickness to the inside of my left boot would do the trick...

 

Lots of questions, and I appreciate any input you all could provide!  It was a fun day on the slopes, and actually somewhat heartening to realize there may be a very conc  rete solution to some of my skiing challenges!

 

Thanks in advance,

Matt

post #44 of 57

Matt, it sounds like you need a different boot guy. He/she should know definitively if they can shim your boot. The other questions... without video, there's really no way to do anything other than guess. You might need work, your skis might need work. There's no way to know with the information you've given even if we might suspect there are alignment issues. If you were in the Seattle area, I'd say give Jim Mates a call. Whoever you work with, they'll need to see the whole set up including your skis.

post #45 of 57
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post
 

Matt, it sounds like you need a different boot guy. He/she should know definitively if they can shim your boot. If you were in the Seattle area, I'd say give Jim Mates a call. Whoever you work with, they'll need to see the whole set up including your skis.


Thanks Mark.  I can give the guy I saw here a call and run the info I provided here to him and see what he says.

 

Also, I have Full Tilt Original boots.  I remember that they can be canted without external modifications.  Does anyone know anything about that?

post #46 of 57

The cuffs can be aligned, but a FT isn't the best platform for serious alignment work.

post #47 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by folkfan View Post
 

So here's an update after skiing today.

 

Today was my first full day skiing on the 170 cm Experience 88s I spoke about before.  First off, I ended up skiing pretty darn fast in them, 48 MPH according to ski tracks.  Not that my intention was to go fast, but I found that at my fastest, the skis seemed fine and stable, I was  more the one who was feeling nervous and so I hit the brakes.

 

The snow was firm and hard in the morning, and softened up in the sun on Mt. Hood today.  I noticed very quickly a problem I have not experienced with my 171 cm Atomic Access: My inside right ski edge and I think my inside left ski edge both started to engage while the skis were "flat" and I was trying to go straight.

Shaped skis will try to engage edges, usually alternately as they interact with surface irregularities.  If only the inside edges are engaging, you or your alignment is tipping the skis onto their inside edges.

 

I also noticed something else interesting.  When I took a left turn, and my weight was mostly on my inside right edge, my skis were further apart and doing a slight pizza(ie. my skis were not parallel).  When making a right turn,  my weight was on my inside left edge, and my skis were parrallel and the turn felt good.  Keep in mind it's my LEFT leg that's shorter and has poor proprioception. 

 

Your left leg is apparently able to tip to the inside edge when you want it to, but you need to tell it more forcefully to engage the little toe edge when turning left; tip both skis to a big enough angle and they will be easier to keep parallel.

 

So given this information, I have the following questions:

 

1)  Does all of this info add up into the problem clearly being my leg length discrepancy and that I need canted boots?  I wondered if what I was noticing might have been related to a subconscious bias towards relying on my right leg, but this doesn't really seem to fit what I noticed.  I recorded two videos which captured what I'm describing.  Would it be helpful for you all to see them?  I can post them in this thread.

 

2) I found both of my inside edges wanted to engage while going straight down a run, making for a tough ride.  I've heard these skis talked about as being "squirrely" at high speeds.  I'm wondering if what I noticed is more directly related to the alignment issue than anything else?

Don't try to go straight with shaped skis; turn.

 

3) My skis felt stable even at high speeds today, but I wasn't feeling very secure on the skis at higher speeds.  Could fixing the alignment issue cause these problems?

How do they feel at high speeds when you are not trying to go straight?

 

4) My old pair of skis have less of a sidecut are wider, and more powder oriented.  Is this a good explanation for why this alignment issue wasn't as obvious before?

 Yes, less sidecut means less random interaction when going straight.  Pick an edge (left or right) and engage it!

 

5) I notice when I turn right and my weight is on my inside left edge, I have difficulty maintaining the edge, and the ski slides sideways (only at higher speeds).  Is this because of my lack of strength in my left leg?  Or is this problem something that could be fixed with canting?

Probably a problem with not enough counter balancing; you could be "banking".

 

 

6) Finally, the alignment guy I saw in Portland wasn't sure if he could add shims to my boots--which would be ideal because I now have multiple skis.  Should I get that same guy to add shims to my set up before I leave town in two months?  Or would it be way better to waiting until I get to Colorado so that I can go back to whoever I see if my shims need tweaking?  Or would someone out in CO be able to easily adapt my shims from the guy here in Portland?

 

Temporary shims under the boot (tape) would be an experiment to carefully try.

 

7)  Is there any way I can make a temporary or even longer term home solution to this problem?  I''m thinking adding thickness to the inside of my left boot would do the trick...

 

Lots of questions, and I appreciate any input you all could provide!  It was a fun day on the slopes, and actually somewhat heartening to realize there may be a very conc  rete solution to some of my skiing challenges!

 

Thanks in advance,

Matt

post #48 of 57
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post
 

The cuffs can be aligned, but a FT isn't the best platform for serious alignment work.


Thanks Mark!  I think the point you make about the FT is the same point the boot fitter I was talking about made.  Why isn't the FT a good choice for alignment work?

 

Are you saying if I need shims and canting etc, my best option might be to buy a new pair of boots?  That'd be expensive and unfortunate, but potentially worthwhile if I can get a good alignment figured out.

 

I do have one problem with the FT.  The inside of one of the buckles pressses against the liner on the outside edge of my right foot.  It's not painful, but a bit uncomofrtable.  I'm not sure if anything can be done about that.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
 

Ghost--thanks for your replies.

 

Are you implying that it's not possible to "straight line" the skis I purchased?  And what do you mean by shaped skis?  Skis with a serious side cut, or side cut at all?  I see people straight line on shaped skis all the time, often on steeper terrain.  I would like to be able to go straight down a trail on the bottoms of my skis.  This seems necessary when going down cat tracks, etc.  Are you saying that the skis I purchased may not be able to do this?

 

Generally, at high speeds they felt stable.  On an early morning icy run, when I was going pretty fast, I was aware that my edges were engaging even though I wasn't intending for that to happen, and this made me nervous and I think I became fatigued easier as a result.

 

How can I work on the "banking" problem?

 

In terms of other DIY solutions, I'm thinking about putting a "lift" in my left boot the height that the doctor recommended so that my left leg is higher, and seeing how that change impacts my skiing.

post #49 of 57
@folkfan, sorry for the delayed answer. Spring cleaning. That's all I'm going to say about that.

I agree with levy1. My guess is that your bootfitter isn't familiar enough with your kinds of issues, although maybe you just haven't pursued adjustments very much. We all tend to assume we're on our own with our challenges, and it's hard to imagine what good, well-fitting, well-suited equipment can do. My skiing took a huge jump the first time I skied with boots that fit my feet and have a custom orthotic that helps keep me connected to my skis, has the right cuff angle for my skeletal geometry, and are stiff enough to stand up to me when I want to dive into my turns. The torment of my first pair of boots convinced me that I must be awfully hard to fit, but once I gave up on the boot fitter who'd put me in the wrong boots and apparently never questioned it I found a guy who carefully examined my feet, stance, and movement, handed me a boot that fit beautifully and held my foot nice and tight, built a footbed and made some adjustments, and the first time I used them my skiing took a big jump.

I'd wait until the beginning of next season, because you've got the kind of specific issues that it's best to build up a history with someone. I'd recommend a certified pedorthist or someone with good biomechanical training who also has decades of experience. If possible, find someone who's worked with elite athletes and/or a variety of different kinds of physical issues. IME, that kind of fitter is happy to work with us mere mortals, especially if we're enthusiastic and willing to do what's necessary to get a good fit. I suspect we enthusiasts are usually more cheerful and easier to deal with than competitive types. Just make sure they're taking you and your needs seriously, though even as a not-super-fit graying woman I haven't had issues with those kinds of professionals. rolleyes.gif

There's a thread on The Boot Guys forum where people have posted info about good bootfitters. That's not a guarantee that any particular person will be the right one, of course. One piece of advice is not to accept generalities that simply having a particular certificate or working at the same shop as an awesome fitter means someone will be wonderful; that's how I got my first boots.

Athletic stance, eyes closed
Balance with hand tracking
Sqat with hand tracking
Tilting ball in 4 directions
Eighth and quarter turn jumps
Bird-dog balance
Single knee balance with reach
post #50 of 57
Thread Starter 

Thanks for your reply, litterbug.  He made me footbeds, which have worked well for me.  He told me to check back in with him regarding alignment, but I didn't realize how significant my challenges were until purchasing these skis a few weeks ago, so I never got back in touch with him.

 

I agree-I think it may make sense to hold off until next season.  I have been told by people on this board that my powder skis, the Atomic Access in 171 cm length, may be too short for me.  A shop nearby me is willing to take my old Access and give me a new pair in a longer length, 181cm,  for $240 mounted.   Think I should just hold off on purchasing skis until I get the boot situation figured out?  I want to have good powder skis while I'm out in Colorado (I may only be out there a year, so I want to enjoy it!) But I don't want to put more money into skiing willy nilly.

 

I'll be in Colorado this summer--is it possible to have alignment work done without actually being out on the slopes?

 

Finally, the guy who made my foot beds was well-known at harb systems, and the foot beds are from harb systems.  I'd prefer to continue using those footbeds rather than needing to pay for a new footbed.  Any thoughts on Harb systems?  They offer alignment services in CO.  I agree with you--I don't want to value a "brand" over quality--I'm just curious to hear thoughts.

 

Thanks again for your reply,

Matt

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by litterbug View Post

@folkfan, sorry for the delayed answer. Spring cleaning. That's all I'm going to say about that.

I agree with levy1. My guess is that your bootfitter isn't familiar enough with your kinds of issues, although maybe you just haven't pursued adjustments very much. We all tend to assume we're on our own with our challenges, and it's hard to imagine what good, well-fitting, well-suited equipment can do. My skiing took a huge jump the first time I skied with boots that fit my feet and have a custom orthotic that helps keep me connected to my skis, has the right cuff angle for my skeletal geometry, and are stiff enough to stand up to me when I want to dive into my turns. The torment of my first pair of boots convinced me that I must be awfully hard to fit, but once I gave up on the boot fitter who'd put me in the wrong boots and apparently never questioned it I found a guy who carefully examined my feet, stance, and movement, handed me a boot that fit beautifully and held my foot nice and tight, built a footbed and made some adjustments, and the first time I used them my skiing took a big jump.

I'd wait until the beginning of next season, because you've got the kind of specific issues that it's best to build up a history with someone. I'd recommend a certified pedorthist or someone with good biomechanical training who also has decades of experience. If possible, find someone who's worked with elite athletes and/or a variety of different kinds of physical issues. IME, that kind of fitter is happy to work with us mere mortals, especially if we're enthusiastic and willing to do what's necessary to get a good fit. I suspect we enthusiasts are usually more cheerful and easier to deal with than competitive types. Just make sure they're taking you and your needs seriously, though even as a not-super-fit graying woman I haven't had issues with those kinds of professionals. rolleyes.gif

There's a thread on The Boot Guys forum where people have posted info about good bootfitters. That's not a guarantee that any particular person will be the right one, of course. One piece of advice is not to accept generalities that simply having a particular certificate or working at the same shop as an awesome fitter means someone will be wonderful; that's how I got my first boots.

Athletic stance, eyes closed
Balance with hand tracking
Sqat with hand tracking
Tilting ball in 4 directions
Eighth and quarter turn jumps
Bird-dog balance
Single knee balance with reach
post #51 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by folkfan View Post
 
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
 

Ghost--thanks for your replies.

 

Are you implying that it's not possible to "straight line" the skis I purchased?  And what do you mean by shaped skis?  Skis with a serious side cut, or side cut at all?  I see people straight line on shaped skis all the time, often on steeper terrain.  I would like to be able to go straight down a trail on the bottoms of my skis.  This seems necessary when going down cat tracks, etc.  Are you saying that the skis I purchased may not be able to do this?

You don't have to turn much, just enough to give preference to one side or the other.  The effect is more noticible on 13 m skis than on 24 m skis.  It is also more noticeble on hard-packed groomers than on surfaces where the ski can sink into the snow.  By shaped skis, I mean skis with a radius of less than 40 m.

 

 

Generally, at high speeds they felt stable.  On an early morning icy run, when I was going pretty fast, I was aware that my edges were engaging even though I wasn't intending for that to happen, and this made me nervous and I think I became fatigued easier as a result.

 

If you think of how a shaped ski works with the ski being tipped on edge to get the edge to carve a turn and then think what happens to that edge as you go by a little bump  with the snow higher on one side, effectively putting the ski on edge on one side relative to the snow your skiing over, you will see why it interacts.

 

How can I work on the "banking" problem?

One drill I like: Drag your outside pole tip on the ground on the outside of the turn (not behind you; a little in front if you can) while making longer turns.

 

In terms of other DIY solutions, I'm thinking about putting a "lift" in my left boot the height that the doctor recommended so that my left leg is higher, and seeing how that change impacts my skiing.

 

Sorry, I don't have much to say about it, but it sounds like a job for someone more familiar with you feet and the boot than me.

 

 

post #52 of 57
Banking issues... Odds are you don't have enough upper and lower body separation. There's going to be some pivot slips and one ski skiing in your future. smile.gif
post #53 of 57
Sorry I'm so late to the game.

IMO you should ask on here for the best foot fitter in CO near where you'll be. From quickly reading your last day of skiing post, I'm thinking get to a GREAT boot fitter. Can you bring your skis with you, they may need to shim the binding as well as the boot. IDK.

When you get the name of the boot fitter, call them ASAP and tell him whats up and ask him if you should bring the skis too.

Lots of great answers above. But I think you know what you need to do.
post #54 of 57
My rule is to be on skis I enjoy skiing on now. By that reasoning, if you love the Access but they're not quite performing the way you want, take the deal. If you think it's not the right ski, wait until fall, and then have yourself an on-mountain demo day or two. That way you can try several brands, models, and lengths in the same day day in the same conditions.

But don't let yourself be rushed by the offer from your local shop unless that's the way you want to go, because I'm pretty sure you'll be able to buy the longer Access next fall and sell your skis and come out ahead, if that's what you decide to do.

And sad though it may be, you have a lot of time between now and opening day to fret about powder skis. I don't particularly love demoing, but by demoing I've haven't yet bought a ski I didn't love. Even the Geishas, which were already too short when I bought them, have been awesome and will be my go-to skis for certain mixed conditions because they're so bouncy and nimble at that length.

Everyone's got an opinion on the best time to shop for deals, but twice I've bought skis at least 30% off in the fall or early winter, once online and once locally, by getting the previous year's versions, which were identical except for the topsheets. It's true you might not find much in stock locally in the summer and fall, but that's why God made the internet. Demo, decide, check locally, and of you can't find it go to Amazon.com, ski.com, backcountry.com, podwder7.com, levelnine.com, and websites for big retailers like REI, Christie's, and the like. Many retailers also list on eBay, and then there are regular eBay sellers. I haven't bought used skis on eBay, though; it'd have to be an outrageous deal and a highly rated seller for me to be badly tempted.

You can get boot work at any time. I've never heard of the Harb system, but that's no surprise because I'm totally an end-user when it comes to boots. You should post a question on the Boot Guys forum about whether a non-Harb fitter can modify it.
post #55 of 57
Thread Starter 
Thanks litterbug!

That makes a lot of sense. I skied my Access out in colorado last March and had an absolute blast. I was on groomed stuff a as they didn't have much fresh to speak of. So the only question would be can my 171 cm skis allow me to float in new snow, or if the 181s would be better for that. Since I had so much fun on the 171s in CO, I'm tempted to stick with them and not mess with a good thing even though people here say they're short.

Matt
Quote:
Originally Posted by litterbug View Post

My rule is to be on skis I enjoy skiing on now. By that reasoning, if you love the Access but they're not quite performing the way you want, take the deal. If you think it's not the right ski, wait until fall, and then have yourself an on-mountain demo day or two. That way you can try several brands, models, and lengths in the same day day in the same conditions.

But don't let yourself be rushed by the offer from your local shop unless that's the way you want to go, because I'm pretty sure you'll be able to buy the longer Access next fall and sell your skis and come out ahead, if that's what you decide to do.

And sad though it may be, you have a lot of time between now and opening day to fret about powder skis. I don't particularly love demoing, but by demoing I've haven't yet bought a ski I didn't love. Even the Geishas, which were already too short when I bought them, have been awesome and will be my go-to skis for certain mixed conditions because they're so bouncy and nimble at that length.

Everyone's got an opinion on the best time to shop for deals, but twice I've bought skis at least 30% off in the fall or early winter, once online and once locally, by getting the previous year's versions, which were identical except for the topsheets. It's true you might not find much in stock locally in the summer and fall, but that's why God made the internet. Demo, decide, check locally, and of you can't find it go to Amazon.com, ski.com, backcountry.com, podwder7.com, levelnine.com, and websites for big retailers like REI, Christie's, and the like. Many retailers also list on eBay, and then there are regular eBay sellers. I haven't bought used skis on eBay, though; it'd have to be an outrageous deal and a highly rated seller for me to be badly tempted.

You can get boot work at any time. I've never heard of the Harb system, but that's no surprise because I'm totally an end-user when it comes to boots. You should post a question on the Boot Guys forum about whether a non-Harb fitter can modify it.
post #56 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

Folk, you'll be absolutely fine. You aren't going to notice a bit of difference at your ability level and the speeds you're skiing. You got the right ski. No remorse, no worries, eh?

 

+1 Thumbs Up

 

If you like the ski, you got the right one. Manufacturer's suggestions are just that.

post #57 of 57
If you're looking for a rec for bootfiting I'd recommend Jeff Bergeron. Denver and Breck.

http://www.bootfixation.com/
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