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edge angle questions

post #1 of 7
Thread Starter 

Rental resort shops set angles at 1/1 but often on these forums I read people setting 1/3. If I imagine the ski edge to be like the capital letter L then the side is 1 degree towards an acute angle - the vertical limb of the L is canted to the right and the base is 3 degrees towards an obtuse angle- the horizontal part of the L tilts down.

 

To compare skiing on a 1/1 to 1/3 edged ski, I can imagine that you have to move your knees over further to get the same edge angle. Why would you want that when you are trying to carve? A 1/3 setup would give more slip and less grip.

 

Also, I see mention of side angles like 0.7, 0.5 - meaning the side of the ski edge is more towards vertical. How does this change the way a ski behaves? I thought the base angle was the important part because that is what contacts the snow and acceleration in a turn is forcing the sidewall away from the snow -> the side wall is not getting any force on it.

post #2 of 7
You've got the angles backward. The base angle, which is what controls how long it takes the edge to engage, is one degree in both cases. The side angle controls how much grip you get once you do engage the edge.

One degree is fine for casual recreational skiers, but IME most shops use 1b/2s. If you're skiing a lot of ice, 1b/3s may be better. I run 1b/2s on all my skis just because I always have, don't ski much ice, and it works just fine.

ETA because I didn't read the end of your post the first time:

Those small angles are for the bases, not the side edges. Smaller base edge angles mean the ski doesn't have to tip as much before the edge engages the snow as they would with a larger bevel. You don't see fractions of degrees for the side edge (at least not often), probably because it would take a very sensitive skier to notice the difference. Change a base bevel by half a degree and you'll know it quickly, especially if you're racing or just a decent skier.

Edited several times because I'm just feeling fussy today. wink.gif
Edited by litterbug - 3/31/14 at 10:47am
post #3 of 7
Thread Starter 

ok, label me NOOB. All is clear now. I demoed a pair of experience 83 and a pair of Stocklilaser AR last week. The Rossis were really sloppy by comparison. I thought the ski sucked because i really had to get me knees over to engage the edge. Only when i took them back the fellow behind the counter say 'oh boy these need a tune'. That got me thinking about my skis and and figuring out where their edges are at. I tried a protractor and a ruler (stupid NOOB again) but couldn't get a reliable reading. A real edge meter is $260!

 

 There are a few dings in the edges of my skis from rocks and such so I am thinking of getting myself a 200 grit stone. But the more I read, the more I want to spend money and buy stuff. I don't want to ruin the base bevel. I was at a race and saw someone using a file freehand on the bottom of his skis. Thinking back on that now, his base angle must have been zero if he was just dragging the file across the ski base.  That would make the ski really 'hooky' - tendency to hook up even when you do not want it too. 

post #4 of 7

Congrats on your decision. You'll find your skiing experience a lot more fun with a really sharp, waxed pair of skis. Lots of good sources of info on here as you journey into the world of tuning.

 

Once your base edges are set, you don't file them any further. If a skier is regularly working on the base edge, the edges get ground down so that they're farther away from the snow than the p-tex, and the skier needs to tip further to start putting it on edge. Not good. 

post #5 of 7
http://www.epicski.com/t/127062/feedback-for-tuning-waxing-tools-rec-skier

This is a recent thread which you might find interesting/useful since you mentionned buying kit and edging into the wonderful (ymmv) world of maintaining your own skis/board. Careful tho' very addictive once you get that first taste in.
post #6 of 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwana View Post

ok, label me NOOB. All is clear now. I demoed a pair of experience 83 and a pair of Stocklilaser AR last week. The Rossis were really sloppy by comparison. I thought the ski sucked because i really had to get me knees over to engage the edge. Only when i took them back the fellow behind the counter say 'oh boy these need a tune'. That got me thinking about my skis and and figuring out where their edges are at. I tried a protractor and a ruler (stupid NOOB again) but couldn't get a reliable reading. A real edge meter is $260!
Checking whether bevels are right is actually not hard. Just mark the edges with a sharpie and run a fine stone over the marks. If the stone takes the whole mark off at once the bevels are right; if it only removes the mark at one side or another of the edge, they're different from the guide you're using. There are ways to measure the exact angle without the $260 guide, but I'm too impatient to use them. redface.gif
Quote:
There are a few dings in the edges of my skis from rocks and such so I am thinking of getting myself a 200 grit stone. But the more I read, the more I want to spend money and buy stuff. I don't want to ruin the base bevel. I was at a race and saw someone using a file freehand on the bottom of his skis. Thinking back on that now, his base angle must have been zero if he was just dragging the file across the ski base. That would make the ski really 'hooky' - tendency to hook up even when you do not want it too.

Ah, grasshopper, there is so much to learn! And so much to buy! biggrin.gif IME it's completely worth it, and you'll be pleased with how much better your skis perform than they do with what many shops give you. Some places are great and turn out consistently good work, but some really bad tunes last year drove me to set myself up to do it myself. Yesterday I took out some new skis that came back from a base grind with all kinds of problems, but after I reset the bevels and waxed them down they not only glided fast and seemingly forever, but the tune transformed them from a complete out of control mess last Monday to do-anything go-anywhere "can we go fast? pretty please?" beasts yesterday.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NovaLoafah View Post

http://www.epicski.com/t/127062/feedback-for-tuning-waxing-tools-rec-skier
This is a recent thread which you might find interesting/useful since you mentioned buying kit and edging into the wonderful (ymmv) world of maintaining your own skis/board. Careful tho' very addictive once you get that first taste in.
That's a very good and thorough thread. One suggestion: spring for high quality tools from the start. in shopping for files I found that Artechski.com is running a 20% off sale on tuning gear with coupon code 'SPRING.' Race-werks.com has 15% off with coupon code CONFIRM15 (no expiration date, can be shared) and generally good prices and special offer of free shipping.

NovaLoafah's right though; if you like toys--err, tools--and tuning, you'll be tempted to go nuts. Don't be like me and cheap out just to save a few dollars on gear, because it doesn't cost that much more to start with solid and easy to use tools, and then you won't feel dumb when you go out and spend more replacing the cheap stuff and have to wait until next December to list the cheaper stuff on eBay. frown.gif
post #7 of 7
Thread Starter 

thank you much gents.

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