Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz
I don't find what he describes particularly different from PSIA's rotary concepts. Every PSIA clinic I've taken they talk about turning the legs.
Not going down the trying to define carving path though. Too many other things to spend my time on.
carving, in my view has nothing to do with ski tracks. Though ski tracks can provide some indicator. Carving is simply when the sidecut of the ski changes the direction the skier mass is moving. That can be done more or less efficiently. At 100% carving efficiency, you are arcing. 0% efficiency is pivoting. In between are many variations where carving elements are present, some more effective then others. if your tails fan out and you change the direction you are facing without changing much the direction your entire skier mass is moving, then you have very little carving happening. Get more carving out of the skis and you'll feel round turn forces acting on you with larger and sustained G forces.
Turning the legs is one important area where PSIA and PMTS both need more clarification. Their lack of definition has provided all manner of mis-truth to circulate the planet. Turning the legs does not necessarily mean turning the skis! Even in purely arced turns, the femur turns in the hip socket. So what we can say about rotary is that our femur needs to be mobile in the hip socket, however this does NOT necessarily correlate to ski/snow interaction. Often those rotational bio-mehanical movements are needed merely for more effective tipping to happen, and expressly NOT to pivot the skis. Pivoting the skis should be expressly seperated as a concept from femur rotational movements. And Steering should also be expressly seperated as a concept from pivoting, as the two things are entirely different.
There are other threads we have dived into that topic at length, hope we are not going to derail to that now. The point is, lack of definition on these issues has left a void of understanding.
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet
I am continually thinking of Rick Schnellman's way of categorizing skiing skills as this thread progresses.
He's done a great job of picking the skills apart and putting them back together.
If you like some of his ideas, then please quote some of them or provide examples that you think would be useful to your quest for better skill definition here.
Originally Posted by razie
here is something that has been bugging me for a whike now.
Skis are flat and I twist them. Likely results are me catching an edge resulting in a faceplant - skis are funny that way.
I edge the skis on one side so I dont catch the other edge and now i twist them around their axis. Dont i just dig in the tips edges even more while making the tails light? Why do you assume that pivoting and torquing the skis make them turn?
. It helps
them turn more, which is what steering really means, but it does not, in and of itself, turn them, does it?
Now, how is this: you are moving and tip them on edge again but this time be back, i.e. Have more pressure on the tails. At certain low tippig angles, you will skid. At a certain higher angle, the tails start following the tips while still skidding slightly while at a given even higher angle, the edges lock and you are ina. Pure carve.
1 - if the skis are tipped, you can't pivot the ski around your foot. The tip can't move into the hill that way. You can only allow the tail to skid more than the tip to effect some kind of steering.
2 - Trying to actually twist your leg to acheive tail fanning as in #1 above while the ski is tipped would result in you twisting the tail into the air.
3 - That leaves only one active choice, which is to actually push the tail out.
4 - By tipping more, you can get the ski to self-steer itself more. So steering movements should actually be all about tipping, not twisting. Twisting a ski that is already on edge is not going to render the results that are commonly thought.
5 - in Softer snow you can get away with more of the twisting stuff because if you twist the ski off edge, its not as critical. But on ice you're gonna chatter if you do that.