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Looking to move up above 100

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 

Looking to possibly upgrade from my Dynastar Legend 94's.  Did a bit of demoing of a couple of 98mm skis and found them enjoyable, but not sufficiently different from my Legend's to make the move.  I'm looking for something that will give me a bit more performance in the deeper, softer snow, but not give up the great GS feel that I have from my Dynastar's.  Of the 98mm skis I tried, I thought the Nordic Hell & Back's were closest to giving me that edge grip on the groomed.  So was thinking that perhaps moving up to the Vagabond at 107mm might still have the groomed performance I want, but have a bit more float, given the extra width and some rocker that my Legend's lack.  But then got to reading the reviews and such, and started wondering if the El Capo, given it's metal construction, might be more like the feeling of my Legend's than the Vagabonds.

 

So, for those that have skied both the Vagabond and the El Capo, any thoughts or recommendations?

post #2 of 14

Any particular reason you are focused on Nordica? The definitive class leader for the type of ski you are describing is precisely the Blizzard Cochise. The reviews speak for themselves but I can vouch for their accuracy after 120+ days on my own pair. The biggest change for you moving from the Dynastars will be learning to pivot turn from the knees down with a weight centered stance in tight trees and bumps otherwise you just 'roll'em and rip'em'.

post #3 of 14

I ski the Hell & Back and Patron quite a bit.  They have a notably different feel from each other, though both are very quick and energetic.  The tail rocker in the Patron makes things stupid-easy, but you do give up a bit of the old school GS feel of a more classic shape like the H&B (though the cambered mid-section helps a bit in this regard).  No free lunch.  Honestly, I'm not sure yet if the tradeoff is worthwhile to me.  I suspect in really deep snow and trees, it may very well be worth it.

 

However, if you want to retain the same general feel as your Legend 94, look no further than some leftover Line Influence 105s or 115s.  I own a pair of the 115s, and they feel like a big wide GS ski with just enough early tip rise to smooth things out.  I'm guessing the 105s are quite similar, and REI is darn near giving the things away for $300.  Note:  Not light skis.

 

After all that yakking, to answer your actual question, I think you would find the El Capo a more similar partner to your Legends than the Vagabond, but it's a tough call.  If pressed, I'd say El Capo if you're mostly in open areas, and Vagabond if you prefer the tight stuff.  Finally, you might want to move up to the wider Helldorado or Patron. A 20 mm jump in waist width from your 94s would be a perfect sized step, IMO.

post #4 of 14

I'm not sure why you'd want a ski that is similar to one you already own therefore I'd say skip over the Capo and Vagabond and go to a Patron or Helldo.

post #5 of 14

^^^ Agreed.  The step up from 94 to 108 is a bit marginal IMO.  The 113 mm waist of the Helldo and Patron makes more sense.

post #6 of 14
Thread Starter 

The step-up isn't from 94 to 107-8, it's from 76 to 1-oh-something, instead of 76 to 94.  My everyday ski is the Blizzard Magnum 7.6.  I'm looking to change my #2 ski - my powder day ski, the Legend's, to something a bit more powder oriented that doesn't sacrifice the wonderful hard snow performance I have in my Dynastar's.  If I wanted a straight powder ski, I'd go with the Rossi Soul 7, but that's not what I'm looking for.  I didn't include the Cochise in the mix simply because it's flat under foot.  To quote PhilPug, "Camber is King" and it certainly is in my book.  I've skied the Bonafide and enjoyed it immensely in the soft snow, but it doesn't match my Legend's on the groomed, imho.  So, I'm reluctant to move to even less camber in the Cochise.

 

Given the improvements in wider-waisted skis, was hoping that I could move up a bit in width to gain more float and powder performance without losing what I liked from my current ski.  As HR said above, there's no free lunch, so maybe this is just wishful thinking on my part.

post #7 of 14
Just curious as to your height and weight?
post #8 of 14
I've got to agree with the cambered route as well. Owning a pair of bones at 99 waist and rocker2 at 115 the capos are great in between width from groomers to crud and I'm told powder - I've got about 15 days on them so far. I really wanted to like the Cochise and start a blizzard quiver but after a demo I went the cambered capo route. As I stated in a earlier post and was mentioned by blister gear review they are a overlooked and misunderstood ski. Just back from a week in the dolomites, it was sunny, slushy and 50 degrees every day, the capos got used 5 of the 7, they blasted thru everything. I had to bring the other skis out just to justify dragging them all that way.
post #9 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WC68 View Post

Just curious as to your height and weight?


5'-11", 190 labs, just shy of 55 years of skiing experience, like to ski the whole mountain, but won't actively seek out a bump run, and only do the trees when the powder is gone elsewhere.  Ski @25 days a season: 10 here in the Midwest, the rest out west 95% at Copper. 

post #10 of 14

So you have a 76mm waist ski that you like for those day's. You call your Legends your "powder ski". You also call the 107mm Soul 7  a powder ski.

 

 

Here's what I have, my 88mm Kendo (1st year full camber) is my everyday ski, I have the Gotama,106mm ( last year of the full camber) and just bought the Shiro, 119mm (full rocker)

 

"go big or stay home" 

 

I understand you may not get deep snow where you live. 

 

I skied my Shiro's yesterday after lunch, temps were about 40F, the snow was soft and heavy as spring snow can be, even a little sticky at times. It was my 1st time on the Shiro's. The first run was a groomer to the trees so I could get to the natural snow bump trail. The skis handled fine on the groomed soft skied up snow. In the soft bumps, they would go over anything I pointed them at. Later I took them down the trail the race team trains on. I skied them as fast as I would normally ski that on my Kendo's. 

 

The wide ski felt pretty much the same doing high speed turns in the soft snow. Granted they are full rocker but the tip flap was not that bad, I could hear them slip the snow every now and then but the ski tracked true, even when I dropped my hip in the turn.

 

I chose the Shiro because it has metal in it and should be good in the heavy powder we normally get in central VT. The reason I looked for a wider ski was because back in Jan, we had 15" of dry powder, my Gotama's didn't have enough float. I wanted more.

 

I'm a Volkl guy, looked at the Katana but it was only 115mm under foot. I couldn't justify spending money for just 9 more mm. I did a web chaser for Katana's and Shiros, read some reviews on line, liked the fact that the Shiro got lots of good reviews and seemed to always be in the top 5 skis over the past few years.

 

I skied them today, The top was iced up and didn't open till 10:15. The Shiro's did ok on the frozen groomed as long as you knew not to push them to hard. Beside the soft snow was down about 400ft lower. 

 

I think I liked the Shiro's in the natural crud bumps today over the Kendo's, those skis just go over anything.

 

It's all about a trade off if you plan to ski that ski all the time. I did bring my Kendo's today and switched back and forth. I just wanted to see how the Shiro's would do.

 

 

Hope that help you decide.

 

As a side note, I did see 3 guy's with Katana's yesterday, not a ski you normally see at Okemo, I stopped and talked to one of the guy's. Turn's out it was his 1st day on them and he got them from the same site I got my Shiro's from. He was having a fun day on them too.

post #11 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tag View Post
 

The step-up isn't from 94 to 107-8, it's from 76 to 1-oh-something, instead of 76 to 94.  My everyday ski is the Blizzard Magnum 7.6.  I'm looking to change my #2 ski - my powder day ski, the Legend's, to something a bit more powder oriented that doesn't sacrifice the wonderful hard snow performance I have in my Dynastar's.  If I wanted a straight powder ski, I'd go with the Rossi Soul 7, but that's not what I'm looking for.  I didn't include the Cochise in the mix simply because it's flat under foot.  To quote PhilPug, "Camber is King" and it certainly is in my book.  I've skied the Bonafide and enjoyed it immensely in the soft snow, but it doesn't match my Legend's on the groomed, imho.  So, I'm reluctant to move to even less camber in the Cochise.

 

Given the improvements in wider-waisted skis, was hoping that I could move up a bit in width to gain more float and powder performance without losing what I liked from my current ski.  As HR said above, there's no free lunch, so maybe this is just wishful thinking on my part.

Sorry, I misunderstood.  Given the above, I'd say go with the Hell & Back or Line Influence 105s.  I think you'd love this size ski as a step up from your 7.6s.  The line is damper and heavier with metal, and the H&B is quicker with bigger rebound (tail kick, yay!), though I don't think it gives up much of anything by leaving out the metal (my first non-metal ski in quite awhile, FWIW).

post #12 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tag View Post.  I didn't include the Cochise in the mix simply because it's flat under foot.  To quote PhilPug, "Camber is King" and it certainly is in my book.  I've skied the Bonafide and enjoyed it immensely in the soft snow, but it doesn't match my Legend's on the groomed, imho.  So, I'm reluctant to move to even less camber in the Cochise.

Your Dynastars are amazing skis. As the person who suggested the Cochise I agree that the absence of camber in the ski means no 'pop' from turn to turn and if that is a crucial feel as part of your ski experience then the Cochise is not for you. I would mention their hard snow performance is not based on camber but rather rolling the ski over and, due to ski construction, the edges engaging solidly from tip to tail. The Bonifide is a great ski but due to it's softer tip and less even flex characteristics it does not have the same capability even though it has camber and is narrower.


Edited by Castle Dave - 3/30/14 at 3:50pm
post #13 of 14

We are about the same size...There are a few 1OS's that could fit your bill with the El Capo leading the charge. I really do like the new Atomic Automatic that is coming up along with the Salomon Q-Lab at 104. The other ski that isn't getting much mention of late is the Kastle BMX108, that has float and some pop. 

post #14 of 14

Phil - please elaborate on he MBX's 108s and larger if you could! That was a strong contender for me but without a demo I couldn't drop the $$$

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