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Using ski visions base flatteners.

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 
Just figured I'd see what others are doing.

After not waxing my skis for about 15 ski day's, the wax last a long time on natural snow. I figured it was about time to flatten the bases and wax.

My daily routine is, after skiing, take a 100 grit moonflex in my steel 93* edge guide, use the 50/50 mix and run the file up/dn each edge 3 or 4 times. Dry the ski, put it away until the next ski day.

When skiing on man made snow I'll wax every 3 or 4 ski day's.

Prior to waxing here's what I do:

I have both the ski visions base file holder and the holder for the ruby stones.

I'll run the flattener with the file tip to tail a couple of times. But really I find it doesn't take much P-tex off.

I find a coarse ruby stone takes off the most P-tex from the convex or high middle of the base out to the edges. After this 15 day's or so, I found that I had to run the coarse stone in the holder tip to tail about 10 times. Then I got bored.

Put the medium ruby stone in to knock down the coarseness a little. May be 5 times down the bases.

Now in all the years I have been using these tools. I have never gotten the entire base flat to the metal edges. I can sometimes get all but about 3/8" from the metal edge. Then i get bored.

Then I take a 1* base guide with a file in it and just lay it on the base and push it down the edge, no pressure push down on it, just moving it down the edge. The idea is to knock off any high spot's not change the base angle.

Then clamp the 100 grit moonflex to the steel 93* guide, and run it up/dn the edges about 5 may be 6 times. Yes using the 50/50 mix as a lube. I'll some times take a small piece of a panzer file and clamp it in front of the moonflex. I only use that set up once may be twice. Don't need to take off to much metal. if I use the file I always follow with just the moonflex and few times.

Then wax.

Been pretty much doing that the past 14 years. The skis have great edge hold, nice pop out of the turn, glide great, quick edge to edge, I can think turn and it happens, are very stable at speed, yes even up into the mid to high 60mph.

This has been the process I have been doing to my 3 y/o Volkl Kendo's with over 100 day's on them. Other then having them mounted at a different shop then I bought them from, (didn't have my boots with me) the skis have never been back to the shop.

I will say I don't use a gummy stone, have never felt a burr that a shop tune seems to put in.

Just to verify, do the 93 from tips to tails, never de-tune the tip or tail of a shaped ski.



Who else finds it hard to get the bases flat edge to edge with the base flattening tools ?



Here's the bases of my Kendo's

That hole has been there for over 2 years.
DSCN6362_zpse5cd199a.jpg

the other one. It's looked like that since sometime last year. They ski great.

DSCN6365_zps99744e25.jpg
Edited by Max Capacity - 3/31/14 at 2:36pm
post #2 of 16

I find it difficult, too.  I suspect my ruby stone is gummed up with wax.  I find the file gets more off.  The most success seems to come from the steel bar.  If I want to take more P-Tex down, I file the base edges first.  It's slow going, but that probably prevents disaster.

post #3 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xela View Post
 

I find it difficult, too.  I suspect my ruby stone is gummed up with wax.  I find the file gets more off.  The most success seems to come from the steel bar.  If I want to take more P-Tex down, I file the base edges first.  It's slow going, but that probably prevents disaster.

 

Steel bar or stones work best for me too. The file doesn't seem to cut very well at all.

post #4 of 16

I found the steel bar to be a lot of work also until I found this video:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1DikQ0kWNk

 

The second half shows how to sharpen the blade. It make it work dramatically better in my experience.

post #5 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Capacity View Post

Then I got bored...

Then i get bored.

Who else finds it hard to get the bases flat edge to edge with the base flattening tools ?

In my experience you are getting bored WAY too early. Ten strokes? No way. Get yourself some proper work liquids, turn on the music and get to work.

post #6 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevesmith7 View Post

I found the steel bar to be a lot of work also until I found this video:



 



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1DikQ0kWNk



 



The second half shows how to sharpen the blade. It make it work dramatically better in my experience.


 



Yes I have found that works well too. I have some sharp steel tool that I found at work one day from one of the machining area's they were closing down. It's some German made tool, came in a nice wood box, I hold it at an nice angle and it will shave off the high spots.
post #7 of 16
I have an older Skivisions flattener that is not wide enough for most modern skis, but IIRC the steel bar was for bringing the base down when it was high, and the coarse stone was for bringing the edges down when the ski was railed or concave.
I never file my base edges because that makes the base concave pretty quickly. Occasionally I'll get a base grind done at a shop.
Also, you should never file before you take off the burrs caused by rock damage. Those dings are harder than any file. I use a cheap coarse stone for that. Diamond stones are way too spendy for that job.

BK
post #8 of 16
Thread Starter 
That's why I don't use a good file. I do understand about the rocks and how they effect the hardness of the nick.

Good point. I do have a couple arkansar stones in my tool box.

Just to verify, I have not changed the base angle, its just to knock off the high metal burrs so they don't scratch the iron.
post #9 of 16
Question for you all: pardon my ignorance, but why do you use the base flattener as often as you do? Once the base is flat, doesn't it stay that way for quite a while? I admit that I haven't watched all the Ski Vision videos because I've just wanted to see the demonstration (I like hows; the whys tend to bog me down), but I'd think that base planing or flattening would be an infrequent event, like once or twice a season.
post #10 of 16

I don't use the flatteners much.  Perhaps before each season, before using new skis, and after base repairs.

post #11 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by litterbug View Post

Question for you all: pardon my ignorance, but why do you use the base flattener as often as you do? Once the base is flat, doesn't it stay that way for quite a while? I admit that I haven't watched all the Ski Vision videos because I've just wanted to see the demonstration (I like hows; the whys tend to bog me down), but I'd think that base planing or flattening would be an infrequent event, like once or twice a season.

 



I used to think way, until I found out better. When you see how much the flattener removes and feel how much better the ski feels the next day, you'll understand.

For some reason the P-tex gets high down the center of the ski. The metal edge doesn't change. My skis don't spend much time running flat on the snow. I'm on edge most of the time.

May be one of the ski guru's can answer why the P-tex get high down the center of the ski.

I did take pictures of the bases on my Kendos over the weekend. I'll add them here when I get time.
post #12 of 16

Hi! great to see these posts, gives me courage to use my skivisions tools more. 

 

(For people not familiar with skivisions tools, reminder: there are 14-15 Mark Sewell youtube videos on these tools, including routine weekly:)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XY_Mt1LJl58

 

 

Quote:
 I used to think way, until I found out better. When you see how much the flattener removes and feel how much better the ski feels the next day, you'll understand.

 

This is what I want to do, every two weeks or as needed would be good. 

 

I have a question. The coarse ruby stone, and even the medium stone, seemingly put a pretty aggressive if rounded, linear structure in the ski. I top this off with the steel bar as per Mark Sewell instructions but the structure is still pretty rough, seemingly.

 

For back east, I could see this much roughness being ideal, especially without wax. But for Colorado, and particularly new snow cold days, I'm not so sure. Any comments here would be appreciated.

Also, what would be the best way to go from this topped off medium ruby structure to a more "new ski", smoother cold dry snow type of base, if possible? if desirable? Thanks. 


Edited by ski otter - 4/3/14 at 3:18pm
post #13 of 16
Thread Starter 

FWIW, I find the medium stone works fine for cold snow, The skis are fine with cold wax even at -20F. We have had fresh snow close to those temps, no problems. I use a horsehair brush for the cold wax. We've had a few days this season with cold dry fresh snow.

 

I think I said after the coarse stone I use the medium a few times.

 

 

Open to other input ????

 

 

Just watched the video's, Oh yea remember to use the steel blade to soften the structure.


Edited by Max Capacity - 4/3/14 at 4:52pm
post #14 of 16

And, with the steel cutter you can keep working the base until you get as fine a structure as you want.

post #15 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Capacity View Post
 
For some reason the P-tex gets high down the center of the ski. The metal edge doesn't change. My skis don't spend much time running flat on the snow. I'm on edge most of the time.

May be one of the ski guru's can answer why the P-tex get high down the center of the ski.

 

Snow (particularly man-made) is abrasive. My thought is when your ski is on edge, the centre of the ski no longer touches the snow and cannot be abraded by the snow crystals. 

 

I wonder if the p-text itself also gets compressed over time through the centrifugal and centripetal forces, and squeezed out a bit from the edge (the point of most pressure) to the centre (the point of least pressure)...

post #16 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaphor_ View Post

 

Snow (particularly man-made) is abrasive. It tears away at material like p-tex. My thought is when your ski is on edge, the centre of the ski no longer touches the snow and cannot be abraded. 

 



Thanks, that's pretty much what I thought.
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