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Thinking of "Freeing my heel" - Page 3

post #61 of 89
Thread Starter 
I picked up some LG Axl's on TGR, and some 27.5 Garmont Ener G boots in nice shape.
post #62 of 89
Argh, too late! I was going to warn you not to do it:
http://www.powdermag.com/stories/endangered-tele-skiers/
post #63 of 89
Thread Starter 
I'm committed.

I enjoyed the article, although I've always respected and admired tele skiers, so does my family and all my friends, but I can relate and have heard the jokes

I need to pi n your tele brain some more too BTW.
post #64 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by vwr1vwf View Post

I'm committed.

Well, okay. As long as you don't care that no one cares.
post #65 of 89
Have to laugh about the article... Certainly true in some regards. I can't count the number rof times I've been up a lift in my alpine gear, a teley'er goes down the hill, and people on the lift commenting how difficult and painful it looks. Sadly at our hill, you see very few teley skiers with a strong skill set. Physically strong maybe, but not skilled.

Vwr, just remember, there's almost no circumstance that requires knee to the ski... ever. Don't let anyone tell you different. smile.gif
post #66 of 89
A few years ago on the now-defunct TelemarkTips.com, a guy had stickers made up that read "Telemarking is stupid." That meme came from a satirical article written by the lovely Kristen Ulmer:
http://www.zoominfo.com/CachedPage/?archive_id=0&page_id=1066872566&page_url=//www.skiersjournal.com/article402.html&page_last_updated=2005-04-02T15:29:26&firstName=Kristen&lastName=Ulmer

Just so no one gets the wrong idea, Kristen has been known to adventure-ski with at least one SLC telemarker that is a friend of mine and Bob Peters.

I still have a few of those stickers. I only give them to committed telemarkers.
Edited by Bob Lee - 5/17/14 at 10:52am
post #67 of 89
Thread Starter 
I'm definately committed, not sure why, but once I start I may never alpine again.

You would not be wasting your sticker on me.
post #68 of 89
Thread Starter 
I read the other article linked also. The author was brash and a little long winded, and really angry with telemarking.

I guess I'm hoping that telemarking makes all our local hills new again and more challenging. Don't get me wrong, I'm no expert, just bored I guess. We shall see

Rich
post #69 of 89
Garmonts are supportive without being heavy or (awkwardly) stiff for free skiing. Good choice. You can soften or stiffen the boot with different liners if you really get into it.

Some things to consider that worked for me. Use poles about one grip lower than alpine to lower your arms and center of gravity. People ski higher body positions today than with leather boots but it is easy to err on being too high, especially coming from alpine gear. Don't drag your knee though. The setup will feel very soft and less responsive. Play with your canting to gain more edging. Also use very little base bevel if you can. Increase forward lean in hardpack, decrease in powder.

Freeskier magazine likes your ski but cautions about its powder performance. You might look at the B & D shift plate that goes under your binding. They are predrilled for machine screws so you can move the binding forward or back. A bit of a bother but if you are looking at skiing an epic dump moving bindings back a couple cm can give you confidence and avoid the undeserved head plant. If you are looking at weeks of hard pack it is nice to carve with bindings more forward. I find roundness of flex more important than stiffness in a ski for telemark. Length becomes an issue with stiff tailed skis.
post #70 of 89
Thread Starter 
The boots are a tad big by alpine fit standards IMO. A shell fit revealed almost 2", so I used a stock bed on the boot board and my custom in the liner to take up some volume. That snugs them up good, I'll experiment with that further. I don't think I could have done any better for 100.00 bucs. Of course after a season or 2 of practicing I'll upgrade.

As for the skis, no one is skiing these elpacos much. I think the flex is pretty close to symmetrical. I really like the idea of playing with the boot center, that may prove to be a good investment. As for the flex I would actually like them to be softer. I definitely due tune them.

I have been looking for some adjustable poles for my touring setup. I'll watch some videos of tele pole plants. I found a few good beginner vids already.

Thanks for the advice. I'll try not to bug you guys too much over the summer. I'll have a lots of questions next season.

Rich
post #71 of 89
Uh oh... 2" is pretty huge. Poles... The pole plant is identical to alpine. Going an inch or two shorter than you alpine poles isn't a bad thing. Adjustable poles are nice to experiment with. I often lengthen my poles if there's flat travel involved, but other than that, don't both as its slow to be constantly fiddling with stuff. Videos... Anything from Urmas in Mammoth is a good start . Chose carefully, there's a lot of crappy teley skiing on the web.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UCa-XlWXTQA
post #72 of 89
Thread Starter 
The boot flex us right where it should be I guess, base of my toes. It is concerning though. But, I'm stuck with them for now. I don't think it will hinder me too much....?
post #73 of 89
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vwr1vwf View Post

The boots are a tad big by alpine fit standards IMO. A shell fit revealed almost 2", so I used a stock bed on the boot board and my custom in the liner to take up some volume. That snugs them up good, I'll experiment with that further. I don't think I could have done any better for 100.00 bucs. Of course after a season or 2 of practicing I'll upgrade.

As for the skis, no one is skiing these elpacos much. I think the flex is pretty close to symmetrical. I really like the idea of playing with the boot center, that may prove to be a good investment. As for the flex I would actually like them to be softer. I definitely due tune them.

I have been looking for some adjustable poles for my touring setup. I'll watch some videos of tele pole plants. I found a few good beginner vids already.

Thanks for the advice. I'll try not to bug you guys too much over the summer. I'll have a lots of questions next season.

Rich
" I definately due tune them ". Should read : I'll definitely de-tune them. I need to start proof reading more, I have a new phone, and it types what it wants.

I'm very concerned about the results of the shell fit I performed on the Ener G's I picked up. I performed it again with my toe just making contact with the inside of the shell, and leaned a little more, then used a pingpong ball. This was more accurate I think, loosely pushing the ball to the boot board revealed 1.5" or 38mm. While this is still too much it is easier to work with than 2.0".

Anyway, I stumbled on to a pair of T1's that I have some pics of. There appears to be some repairs done to the duckbill, and the liner pull strap is ripped out of one liner. I suspect these will fit better though, after confirming the size of course, they're listed as 9, I'm assuming 27.0 mondo.

My question is in regard to the amount of allowable damage the duckbill can have before safety and performance is compromised. I know this is a restricted area for alpine boots.

I can pass the Garmonts to my son, after watching Bob's video a dozen times he is in next season!
post #74 of 89
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vwr1vwf View Post

The boots are a tad big by alpine fit standards IMO. A shell fit revealed almost 2", so I used a stock bed on the boot board and my custom in the liner to take up some volume. That snugs them up good, I'll experiment with that further. I don't think I could have done any better for 100.00 bucs. Of course after a season or 2 of practicing I'll upgrade.

As for the skis, no one is skiing these elpacos much. I think the flex is pretty close to symmetrical. I really like the idea of playing with the boot center, that may prove to be a good investment. As for the flex I would actually like them to be softer. I definitely due tune them.

I have been looking for some adjustable poles for my touring setup. I'll watch some videos of tele pole plants. I found a few good beginner vids already.

Thanks for the advice. I'll try not to bug you guys too much over the summer. I'll have a lots of questions next season.

Rich
" I definately due tune them ". Should read : I'll definitely de-tune them. I need to start proof reading more, I have a new phone, and it types what it wants.

I'm very concerned about the results of the shell fit I performed on the Ener G's I picked up. I performed it again with my toe just making contact with the inside of the shell, and leaned a little more, then used a pingpong ball. This was more accurate I think, loosely pushing the ball to the boot board revealed 1.5" or 38mm.
post #75 of 89
Fit... There's honestly no way to tell unless you can go somewhere and try some on. Too big is too big. My teley boots have about 1cm at the heel, but 1.5 is reasonable. Be careful with scarpa boots. Make sure the size number is US, not UK. Go mondo point and don't look back
Cm's are your friend. Remember too that 26.5/27 are the same shell size whereas most other manufactures will be 26/26.5, 27/27.5, etc...
post #76 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lee View Post

A few years ago on the now-defunct TelemarkTips.com, a guy had stickers made up that read "Telemarking is stupid." That meme came from a satirical article written by the lovely Kristen Ulmer:
http://www.zoominfo.com/CachedPage/?archive_id=0&page_id=1066872566&page_url=//www.skiersjournal.com/article402.html&page_last_updated=2005-04-02T15:29:26&firstName=Kristen&lastName=Ulmer

Just so no one gets the wrong idea, Kristen has been known to adventure-ski with at least one SLC telemarker that is a friend of mine and Bob Peters.

I still have a few of those stickers. I only give them to committed telemarkers.

I either missed that article or I'm too old to remember it :-)  A few things I know for sure--(1) most anyone can ski alpine lift-served well, even pre-schoolers; (2) far fewer can ski off-piste and backcountry well except on corn snow; (3) few people can become expert telemark skiers, but there are many expert telemark skiers; (4) it is a rare person who can extreme ski as well on tele gear as a the large number that can on alpine gear and even AT gear--but some can, the one I recall the best is Armond DuBuque [who made his own binding--the Ultimate Telemark Binding with a built in crampon and the 1st hardwire cable] who did the first descent of Mowich Face on Mt. Rainier; (5) AT gear has it all over tele  gear on the ascent; and (6) telemarking in a foot of  light powder over a firm surface has been my ultimate skiing experience [but since I switched to AT, one I am unlikely to repeat].

post #77 of 89
Thread Starter 
Its time to mount my Axls. Where do I want my boot center?
post #78 of 89
Over the alpine boot center mount pretty much always works...or more accurately, the same place as you would mount alpine boots/bindings.
post #79 of 89
Thread Starter 
Awesome, thanks Bob. Hope you had a grey summer.
post #80 of 89
Thread Starter 
Would there be any learning curve benifit from moving my bindings back? I have the bcl on the alpine classic line, but have to go down a shell size in boots. I picked up some Garmount EnerG 27.5, they're too stiff and burly for a beginner. I'm only 160 lbs x 5'5", so I may not even have the horsepower for4 buckle boots. That, coupled with being too big is a lot of work.

The 4 buckle cuff is high, and pressures my downhill leg calf. Also I'm not ready for that much power transfer to my dropped knee ski ( up hill ). By moving the bindings back, I think it will decrease the pressure to my uphill ski tip. I've got the axls on the lightest setting.

So I sold the EnerGs and am in the market for softer and better fitting boots. Then I'll start over, plus I'll have some leg strength from downhill and touring, because I started the season on the tele gear, it was very foreign and screwed up my muscle memory.
post #81 of 89
A mount on the center or forward pretty much makes for easier turning, moving back makes it more stable but less 'turny,' I'm not sure why you want to "decrease the pressure on (your) uphill tip."

My advice is to get the new boots first - favoring fit - and then see how the outfit feels instead of changing boots and mounting at the same time.
post #82 of 89
#1, 'big' teley boots don't always equate with 'too' much of anything. The bellows are what matters. Do they bend or not? If the sole of the boot is 'rockered, can you flatten it with your body weight? The preassure you feel on your downhill calf is likely because you're not keeping pressure on the cuff/flexing the ankle of the boot. i.e., you're fore/aft balance is out of wack. You may need some boot work as well, but that's doable.

'Dropping the knee'... I know its only words, but they're words that pre-dispose as to skiing in 'position', and this is hugely proplematic in teley skiing. Think of the process as lowering your center of mass only as necessary between between your feet. When you 'drop the knee', you get low and spread out fore and aft, lose lateral mobility, and have no way to absorb changes in terrain. That said, probably 80% of the N.American teley population skis/skied this way, which is IMHO why so many have quit because it's just too damned hard, but that's another conversation. Anyhow, if you have any access to telemark instruction, it's well worth your while to take a few.

( For anyone here in the PNW listening in, Crystal Mountain, though they don't advertise teley instruction, is the home mountain of all three PNW PSIA telemark examiners and clinicians. They're all fantastic. PM me if you need more info, or just call the ski school.)
post #83 of 89

 Moving the binding forward 2 cm can help with turn initiation.  Tips from tele clinics:  Steer with the rear.  Edge both skis, but focus on the rear, the leading ski usually takes care of itiself (it gets more pressure than you think it does). Unweight, move the rear ski back til the boot toe is just behind to the front boot heel, do not move the front ski forward, weight and edge at the same time. Steer, --turn the skis with your lower legs (knee to foot) in the direction you want to go.  Use you knees as headlights--shine them where you want to go.  Remember the parallel turn is an essential ingredient in the telemarkers quiver, especially on ice and in deep powder.

 

At one time there were many very good telemark clinics in PNW and B.C.  You can save a lot of wasted effort, time, and, possibly, injury by taking a clinic with a small group of other students, where you can watch, listen, learn, do, and then watch the videotaped results.

 

Don't over tighten your boots.  I found the lighter blue 3 buckle Scarpa T-2 to be a optimum mix of soft bellow flex and lateral stiffness for me (didn't use the power strap).  I never used a 4-buckle boot for tele, I do have one for alpine, and I only use a 2 buckle for AT.  But that's my experience obviously.  Many went for the NTN, 4-buckel boots, etc. and they have some real advantages, at the cost of a little weight.

 

I found Paul Parker's book to be the most informative of the books on the telemark technique.

post #84 of 89
Mike and Allens Really Cool Telemark book is good too, and it has most of the pointers I've heard in 20+ years of Tele skiing.
post #85 of 89
Thread Starter 
Merry Christmas my friends, and thanks for taking the time to help me out.

Rich
post #86 of 89

Wow,  I just read through this.  Shades of the Ttips community revived.  Those old articles were great and the discussion around helping get someone started was refreshing.  Good solid advice without a diatribe about whatever perspective someone preferred.  One of the things I like about the turn is most tele skiers will acknowledge each other and generally share the passion. 

 

There was a newbie out at our hill this weekend just learning tele.  Something new for her to try after many years of alpine.  A buddy and I said hi, skied a couple runs with her, gave her a couple of quick drills to work on and wished her well.  The one thing I have seen most often with skiers moving from alpine to tele is learning to put enough weight on the rear/inside leg.   The comment about steer with the rear reinforces this point.

 

Sink into the stance is another good visual tip.  Generally you don't step forward or back but sink into the turn weighting both legs. (On groomers at any rate.  Creative turns in variable conditions require some adjustment as needed).

 

Have fun with it.

post #87 of 89
Thread Starter 
I've got new used boots on the way, scarpa T2s.

Thanks again to everyone, especially for the articulation and analogies. Hopefully I'll have positive feedback soon. The thing that frustrated me most is that I can turn left with ease and it looks natural like I know what I'm doing. But, I can't coordinate a right turn to save my ass, especially on low pitch terrain.
post #88 of 89

It's pretty normal to have a strong side and weak side.  Everyone has a dominate leg.  Stand up straight and lean forward until you have to take a step to catch yourself.  The leg you put forward is usually your dominate leg.  Left leg dominate tends to turn right better.  My guess would be you are right legged.

post #89 of 89
One thing I've mentioned in other forums is always stop with your weak turn and try and make it pretty, it realyy helps as we all subconsciously stop with the dominant turn. You will see improvement.
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