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MA for John Boy - Page 2

post #31 of 48

 

Arms and poles extend out and down, at about 45 degrees, with pole tips lightly touching the snow at all times.  Reach out as far as you can with your outside arm and pole, touching the snow as far away from your feet as you can.  In this picture, I'm speaking of reaching out with my left hand.  Start reaching with outside hand at the very start of the turn, and do so all the way through the entirety of the turn, changing the hand you reach with at the start of each new turn.

post #32 of 48

 

 

Use outside hand to push hip into the turn.  Hold inside arm high, and drive arm and shoulder forward.  Holding the shoulder high provides the angulation training you seek.  Driving it forward provides some functional counter.  Pushing the hip in encourages the development of edge angles and getting the hips inside of the feet for a strong, skeletally aligned stance, with a long and strong outside leg.

 

Be sure to go back to page one, there's another drill there for you to work on.

post #33 of 48
Thread Starter 

Latest video.

As always, your input is much appreciated. John continues to work on the drills you guys have suggested.

 

 

post #34 of 48
Have him work on keeping his head and shoulders level with the horizon line. I'm sure he's feeling the 'swoopy' fun of turning with inclination through the arc, but steeper terrain, irregular snow ans snow surfaces, bumps, and hard snow will cause things to fall apart pretty quickly. We need better upper/lower body separation through the arc, and angulation at and after the fall line would do a world of good. The good bit is his turn shape and relatively early edge engagent. Nice flow too. Looks like relaxed fun skiing. He's not all that far away from firing on all cylinders.smile.gif
post #35 of 48

He's getting better. But still has some old in grain movements to shed. Work on those hands. He still has a lazy inside hand. Exaggerate that outside ski pressure by lifting the inside one and putting the tip down.  That will flex his ankles forward. Strong skier. With the right moves he could be dare I say it............A ripper.Thumbs Up

post #36 of 48

he's skiing well and having fun.

 

he's also following the skis too much - use the picture drill: hold the poles up in front like a picture frame and frame some object at the bottom, which you keep there the entire run, to prevent the upper body to rotate with the skis.

 

also, he's still inclining into the turns: grab both poles from UNDER the handles and drag them into the snow, pressing the tips into the snow inline with the boots. focus on the snow spray from the tips of the poles.

- another good one here is dragging only the OUTSIDE pole, i.e. not the one you plant but the other one.

- touch his OUTSIDE boot mid-turn. this also builds more mobility and range of movement.

 

could also quiet those hands. he's moving the hands way too much back and forth and across and that is disrupting the upper body - move them less.

 

cheers,

raz

post #37 of 48

A lot has already been said about the lower body and I would like to isolate comment to just the arms. The arms have got to go!  What is it about skiers with years of "sheltered" development who like to use their arms to conduct their turning? All these weird, personally developed, extracurricular, rhythmic, deeply routed arm movements flailing as if they conducting an orchestra. This is a very, very bad habit that needs to be immediately extricated from John Boy with swift and marked aggression. Short of cutting his arms off like a pet zombie, I would tie his arms behind his back for 10 full runs top to bottom. I would tie the rope very tightly so he feels somewhat tortured throughout the process. Each run would start and finish with a little slap on the forehead. Serious, life saving change does not occur without pain and discomfort. This arm movement is a deadly cancer that has been metastasizing throughout his body and mind for decades. It is so deeply intertwined in his subconsciousness that time for frontal lobotomy, exorcisms, and highly toxic chemotherapy have long passed. I see no way to correct this poor bastard without an entire surgical amputation of any and all consciousness associated with his arms to be returned at a later time where he can be expected to manage them with decency and responsibility. After that, I guarantee forcing him to ski all day after crapping in his pants will open his stance right up. Get better soon John Boy!

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post #38 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by razie View Post

 

could also quiet those hands. he's moving the hands way too much back and forth and across and that is disrupting the upper body - move them less.

 

.... or a lot less, in light of @Rich666 's threats... 

post #39 of 48

IMHO, hands aren't all that hard to fix. Upper and lower body separation are. 

post #40 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

IMHO, hands aren't all that hard to fix. Upper and lower body separation are. 
they go hand and hand.
post #41 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfdog View Post
 

I

 

All that said, he is very athletic and capable.  He should take a few private lessons, because he could really shine with the right guidance. 

ditto and head ant advice from helluvaskier.  It may be tough but fair and spot on

post #42 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by slider View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

IMHO, hands aren't all that hard to fix. Upper and lower body separation are. 
they go hand and hand.

Thought it was arm in arm towards dissolution.

Problem with the arm is he drops the inside back and down at the end of the turn which rotates him around.
It's a stylized la di da technique. Maybe it's fun but god help him in moguls or steeps and he could have more fun gliding with more power and not too much more effort.

Possibly he picked this up from some Ted Ligety video clips?
Problems:
- Farfetched
- Doesn't ski like Ligety
- Has hand/arm reversed. It's the outside not inside..
post #43 of 48

Adding to what Tog just said,

Dropping the inside arm mimics what we do when we walk or run. The movement pattern is already embedded.

The skier's challenge is to shift the pivot point from the shoulder (walking and running) to the wrist.

What needs to swing is the pole, not the arm, from the wrist, not the shoulder.

post #44 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post

Adding to what Tog just said,
Dropping the inside arm mimics what we do when we walk or run. The movement pattern is already embedded.
The skier's challenge is to shift the pivot point from the shoulder (walking and running) to the wrist.
What needs to swing is the pole, not the arm, from the wrist, not the shoulder.

Agreed, and still contend that it's easier to correct than teaching and embedding movement patterns for upper/lower body separation.
post #45 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post
Agreed, and still contend that it's easier to correct than teaching and embedding movement patterns for upper/lower body separation.


Yes, teaching this is SOOOOOO hard.  Sometimes.  But a worthy challenge.  People just contort themselves in such weird ways.  Clearly it's a difficult bodily concept to absorb.

Chubby Checker (Let's Do the Twist) worked with me for a 70ish gentleman last season.  Not exactly the same move, but it served as a successful starting point.

 

 

post #46 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

Agreed, and still contend that it's easier to correct than teaching and embedding movement patterns for upper/lower body separation.


Yes, teaching this is SOOOOOO hard.  Sometimes.  But a worthy challenge.  People just contort themselves in such weird ways.  Clearly it's a difficult bodily concept to absorb.
Chubby Checker (Let's Do the Twist) worked with me for a 70ish gentleman last season.  Not exactly the same move, but it served as a successful starting point.

 

So cool. People must love you. Hope they are telling the ssd. And tipping accordingly.
post #47 of 48

Just caught the tail end of this thread so I'm sorry if I'm repeating or missing something. 

 

I watched the originally posted vid. And the real problem with this guy is mostly in the travel of his CoM.  It's not his hands. The hands usually point to problems elsewhere lower down. 

 

When I saw the short radius turns I saw only a slight deviation from where his CoM should be and noticed more issues in his turn shape. His turn shapes rob his skis from loading and unloading. Everything else doesn't look too bad. 

 

But when he went to longer radius (medium radius) turns his CoM started swinging back and forth to change edges in a crossover move that wasn't exactly appropriate for his turns.  I saw a fairly quick transfer of pressure to the uphill ski, then his CoM crossing over in a typical RTE move.  Essentially his timing is off relative to his turn shape. He is compensating for the error in timing.  In his longer turns I would probably try to get him to substitute RTE with RET for now.   That would correct his CoM tracking and then allow him to blend back in the pressure transfer in a more controlled way. I think he would find his turns much more powerful with a few small adjustments in sequence and timing. 

post #48 of 48

When skiers do not know how to drive the turns with power using their feet properly they will use what ever method they discover.  Rotating the upper body and driving with the outside hand are probably the two most common methods seen on the slopes.  These methods work great till you wind up on the steeps, ice, moguls etc.   Hand discipline  is just that, discipline.  Upper and lower body separation is more complex.   YM

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