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Do your skis act different going fast on uneven packed snow - Page 2

post #31 of 40
Never mind.
Edited by clink83 - 4/7/14 at 1:54pm
post #32 of 40

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by clink83 View Post

If you think about it more ramp angle in general is going to help someone 6'4 get forward and keep their center of gravity forward since they have to lean forward more than a shorter person.

However, that's not the point because at 6'4 and 250 its not why his skis feel unstable at speed. I know, Im 6'4 and only 215 and a ski like that would be unstable.


I never said anything about length of ski or stability at speed. I only commented on how ramp angle is more dependent on ratio of lengths of parts of the body in regards to balance. I agree that for his weight and height, he needs a longer ski so I didn't comment on that because enough people already have.

 

More ramp angle for me actually puts my COM back further.

post #33 of 40
The right size and model becomes more stable the faster you ski
Quote:
Originally Posted by clink83 View Post

If you think about it more ramp angle in general is going to help someone 6'4 get forward and keep their center of gravity forward since they have to lean forward more than a shorter person.

However, that's not the point because at 6'4 and 250 its not why his skis feel unstable at speed. I know, Im 6'4 and only 215 and a ski like that would be unstable.
post #34 of 40
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by clink83 View Post

If you think about it more ramp angle in general is going to help someone 6'4 get forward and keep their center of gravity forward since they have to lean forward more than a shorter person.

However, that's not the point because at 6'4 and 250 its not why his skis feel unstable at speed. I know, Im 6'4 and only 215 and a ski like that would be unstable.

 

Not sure where you are coming from, but I know there are several factors in play for me. Also, the Chariots are perfectly stable now that I have the balance/ramp sorted out. These are the #1 rated ski on Real Skiers review site for a reason. They have a very wide performance and weight envelope. For a wide ski, they are stiff. I do agree, however, the 178's are short for me and the 188's would be a better length.

 

Anyway, here goes. Boots have a ramp angle built into the inner "insert" that sits on the bottom of the plastic sole. I ski Lange RS140 boots for reference and different brands use different insert angles. They do publish this info for different boots. Then there is usally a boot orthotic or footbed added. Then there can forward lean wedges that can go between the liner and the rear spoiler of the boot. My Langes have all of these. So standing on flat ground, there are several things that add up to a "ramp angle". I read the height difference in the bindings is called Delta angle. There can also be a slight angle due to the ski width difference at the toe versus the heel. All of this adds to a overall ramp angle. Also the length of the boot sole changes the angle, even if the all the other measurements are the same. I have a 336 mm sole (29.5 boot). Shorter boot means higher angle

 

For me, I found with the stock boot insert and a "down under" brand foot bed liner, an even height  binding, and no rear forward lean wedge worked best. It put me in the most balanced skiing position. The stifness of the boots is also in play, as the amount of flex of your boots at your ankles is a factor. My boots are very stiff. Having a lower toe piece and using the forward lean wedges gave me too much overall ramp angle and put me too far forward.  Now that I am dialed in, I can lean slightly forward and feel my tips press down and lean slightly back and fell my tails press down. And most importantly, it doesn't change much as I flex up and down at the knees and hips.

post #35 of 40
God, it's hard enough to buy boots that fit without worrying about these angles due to shell/inside/foot bed.. I've never worried about different angles on my bindings either. Now starting to think this might be part of the reason it takes me so long to adjust to different skis if I've been on one pair for a number of days in a row. Just thought it was the ski itself, but now have to worry about binding differences. I'm surprised any of us can ski at all!!

I can see different boots having different angles as conducive to accommodating different body types, but why do bindings have to get into the act? How likely is it that we're able to put the identical binding on every pair of skis we own? Personally, I buy my skis over the course of years, adding and dropping a ski as needed, not all at once. Seems like more added nuisance to try and have the same angle for each. Why aren't they all a standard angle?
post #36 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

God, it's hard enough to buy boots that fit without worrying about these angles due to shell/inside/foot bed.. I've never worried about different angles on my bindings either. Now starting to think this might be part of the reason it takes me so long to adjust to different skis if I've been on one pair for a number of days in a row. Just thought it was the ski itself, but now have to worry about binding differences. I'm surprised any of us can ski at all!!

I can see different boots having different angles as conducive to accommodating different body types, but why do bindings have to get into the act? How likely is it that we're able to put the identical binding on every pair of skis we own? Personally, I buy my skis over the course of years, adding and dropping a ski as needed, not all at once. Seems like more added nuisance to try and have the same angle for each. Why aren't they all a standard angle?

Lol...yes, very annoying. One of these days.

Binding delta can vary significantly. It's not all bad news though, cause it's easy to measure or ask someone who knows. You can also shim the nose pieces of many bindings. Marker makes shims so you can adjust the delta. Now you know, maybe you'll find what works for you and can repeat it.

 

The boot situation is far worse as some manufacturers just change the angles without talking about it. It's better than it used to be though. Also, the calf muscle can influence your forward lean as talked about in that article linked to above.

The ski width difference between toe and heel does not matter. The jig is going off the center.  One could set the bindings for toe out/in and Atomic had a model you can adjust that with a screw.

post #37 of 40
So far, my body must adjust after a few runs. That is, I think it adjusts... Maybe a MA on each pair of skis would tell me differently, but I'm not about to offer myself as an Epic MA martyr. I'd have to start seeing a shrink.
post #38 of 40
I guess that would make me a MAM? 😅
post #39 of 40
Our body and athletic ability will adjust to lots of things. Many of us have skied a long time without knowing about all this canting and balancing. Very happily I might add. Until we really started to try to be more efficient or ski faster/better/stronger along with video so we can see what we look like to give is new insights.
did many of us as recreational skiers began to tinker or explore a lot of this information

I'm sure a lot of our equipment choices were affected by this as well. "I did not like the way those skis felt" could have been a result of binding setup. We never thought about it and just ended up dismissing them as "not for me"
post #40 of 40
Thread Starter 

Necessity is the mother of invention for me, meaning I avoid the deep dive until I am forced to, because something isn't working right for me. Things seemed to work right when I owned a single pair of 205 cm racing skis.  These modern skis take some sorting out for someone my size.

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