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New Marker Bindings

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
Our ski shop went oob &he sold me new old gear.My family got Rossis and marker bindings We ski once a year for a weekbut real agressive , Home corse Jackson hole (off the tram) .We have m41sc2,M41 and the 8.2.What are we gonna like/hate and whats up with the select control does it work?I have them on my 203's. Talk to me
post #2 of 22
Those bindings are at least 20 years old and not current by today's safety standards. You say you go skiing aggressively one weekend a year. Think about what a binding is supposed to do, hold you in and release you. Think about what a binding is made in, plastic and metal. Plastic is a petroleum based material that can, and does break down over time. Would you take out a car, with 20 year old tires, once a year for aggressive driving? Probably not, the plastic in the binding is like the rubber on the tire. Personally I would not ski those skis and for that one weekend, rent/demo/hire some modern equipement. Who knows, you might fall back in love with the the sport and ski more.
post #3 of 22

^^^^ This. Are your knees worth less than $120-$150? Because that's the price of a new pair of bindings in the spring if you look around. OTOH, I'd guess the cost of a fixing an ACL and MCL is, oh, say $5,000 up front if you have comprehensive health coverage, say $150,000 if you don't. Plus the lost work time and year or so of rehab. But hey, your family won't mind the crutches. Unless it's one of them, of course.

 

Then once the osteoarthritis sets in later, figure on another $2,000 for a brace, guess you can do the exercises yourself although machines make it easier, and the best part of course, all those nice winces when you jolt against something like stepping off a curb wrong, or if you still do an aggressive ski week each year, managing a mogul wrong.

 

So suggest taking up golf if you don't already, bowling works as a nice low impact sport too. Oh, and buy some stock now in a company that makes ibuprofen, cuz you'll be keeping them in business 20 years from now...;)

post #4 of 22

I sold many of Marker's select control bindings in my shop.  A setting of 3 means that there is no rebound generated from the built in binding spring.  It is where most of my customers kept their bindings.   A 2 setting has movement into the "spring" that provides rebound energy into the compression of the turn.  A 1 setting allows the binding to "float" about 3mm and is intended for powder and really soft conditions.  The 41SC was a good performing binding.  The big thing is to make sure the screw on the plate stays good and tight.  If it loosens, the plate will move forward and compromise the SC and wedge it immovable.  The 8.1 is a newer version of the M41.  All that being said, I wouldn't hesitate to ski on them.  They've been in boxes and not exposed to UV rays, so the previous comments about degeneration of plastic in a moot point.  They are a good design and a product that worked very well.  The biggest thing with a Marker was the correct setting of the forward pressure indicator.  We always made sure that the FP heel screw was a dime's width into the heel housing and not flush,  A really strong, aggressive skier was a nickle.  We had no injuries in 20 years following that procedure.  Have a great time at the Hole!

Bob

post #5 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawk56 View Post
 

 They've been in boxes and not exposed to UV rays, so the previous comments about degeneration of plastic in a moot point.  

WRONG!

 

Plastic does degrade without UV exposure. Whether your bindings have degraded is a gamble for you to work out, but plastic definitely does degrade with age.

 

Just ask my friend. We were at the base at Heavenly and he stepped into his binding and the heal of his old (kept in the closet out of the UV in a controlled temperature environment) boot literally popped off of his boot. The whole heel cup and heel lug just popped off. I laughed my a$$ off. Then of course I apologized for laughing.

 

Don't trust old plastic any farther than you can through it.

post #6 of 22

Your basing your WRONG off of a single incident.  Amazing!  Was it a Marker?  Was it of that era?  Are you absolutely sure of your scientific facts that plastics breakdown in a box in 10 -15 years.  Heck, I'm thinking that water bottles exist in your landfill that are still going pretty strong, and they're designed to degrade.  I was in the business of working on and selling product for almost 40 years.  Plastic failures were extremely rare.  In fact, I can only state one known plastic defect in a Geze heel where too much carbon was added to the plastic to make it black and ended up compromising the integrity of the heel cup.  I know of no such issue with that era of Maker bindings.

Bob

p.s. that would be "throw"

post #7 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by H2OnSnow View Post
 

WRONG!

 

Plastic does degrade without UV exposure. Whether your bindings have degraded is a gamble for you to work out, but plastic definitely does degrade with age.

 

Just ask my friend. We were at the base at Heavenly and he stepped into his binding and the heal of his old (kept in the closet out of the UV in a controlled temperature environment) boot literally popped off of his boot. The whole heel cup and heel lug just popped off. I laughed my a$$ off. Then of course I apologized for laughing.

 

Don't trust old plastic any farther than you can through it.

I have to agree with this.

 

Back to the first reply to this thread:  Listen to Phil.  He knows of what he speaks. 

post #8 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawk56 View Post
 

Your basing your WRONG off of a single incident.  Amazing!  Was it a Marker?  Was it of that era?  Are you absolutely sure of your scientific facts that plastics breakdown in a box in 10 -15 years.  Heck, I'm thinking that water bottles exist in your landfill that are still going pretty strong, and they're designed to degrade.  I was in the business of working on and selling product for almost 40 years.  Plastic failures were extremely rare.  In fact, I can only state one known plastic defect in a Geze heel where too much carbon was added to the plastic to make it black and ended up compromising the integrity of the heel cup.  I know of no such issue with that era of Maker bindings.

Bob

p.s. that would be "throw"

Not basing anything off of one incident. I related one incident. I am absolutely sure that plastics CAN break down and lose the original design properties that made them suitable for their original design application. Would those bindings even still be on the indemnification list? There is actually a reason for those lists.

 

The best reply above was that brand new bindings are too cheap to risk using old ones. I agree. I disagree with the wisdom of your recommendation.

 

Sorry you were offended by my reply...really. But, I think you might be on the wrong forum if that bothered you.

 

And yes, you're right..that would be throw.

post #9 of 22

When it comes to my knees, I don't need a long list of reasons to prove why a given binding isn't going to work. All I need is the hint of a suggestion that there might be a problem. Bindings no longer on the indemnified list? That's not a hint, that's a clue by four to the noggin.

post #10 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by bounceswoosh View Post
 

When it comes to my knees, I don't need a long list of reasons to prove why a given binding isn't going to work. All I need is the hint of a suggestion that there might be a problem. Bindings no longer on the indemnified list? That's not a hint, that's a clue by four to the noggin.

 

There are many things that may (or may not) cause a binding to not work as designed. One greatly overlooked issue is boot sole wear/damage. Dried out lubrication, damage caused by corrosion, improper set up, physical damage. A good shop can check for proper DIN settings with torque test to verify operation.

 

The sad part is that many shops will not even test a binding that has fallen off the indemnified list. But they will sell you something new. The list only tells you what the manufacturer no longer stands behind, not what will no longer function as designed.

 

btw, bindings are not likely to save your "knees". They provide a level of protection to the bones not connecting tissue. You pay your money and take your chances.

post #11 of 22

H20,

Thanks for the reply.  Not at all offended.  I believe it is a good thing for the original poster to read both sides of an enthusiastic discussion and then decide for himself.

Bob

p.s.  I read your disclaimer and enjoyed it very much.  Outstanding! 

post #12 of 22

Hawk56

I used to work in  a ski shop in the mid 90s. When we released tested bindings that were only a few years old like the marker m28, they would often break. We would replace these with m31 which were not much better The Salomon 626 heelpieces would also break. The salomon heel springs would rip out of the housing.  The plastic housings are under load from the springs just sitting in the box or on skis (unless the settings screws  are turned down).

 

I had 3 pairs of those Geze bindings replaced. I pretty sure the heelpieces were White. The replacement bindings were black.


Edited by NordtheBarbarian - 5/10/14 at 10:18pm
post #13 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossi Smash View Post

 

btw, bindings are not likely to save your "knees". They provide a level of protection to the bones not connecting tissue. You pay your money and take your chances.

 

Well, with the notable exception of KneeBindings - which "may" in fact actually protect your knees, since that's what they were specifically designed to do. I have +376 ski days on them with NO knee injuries over the past 6 seasons...  

post #14 of 22

@Hawk56 and @Philpug are both right. While plastics do degrade with time, some do so very slowly and some very quickly. The softer plastics seem to change more with time. I had a pair old boots split apart - they were originally rather flexible plastic and had stiffened with time (my experimental modifications didn't help). I had an old Corvette with a plastic body and suspension that held up quite well over decades. The plastic in a binding will probably still have quite a lot of its original properties and may be quite serviceable (but I did just break the plastic tab off an antique binding a couple weeks ago). Consider that a shop cannot service your bindings for liability reasons.

 

Plastics aside, get some new equipment! Demo some new skis. You'll be amazed. Riding old 203s is a higher risk than the binding age. With the cost of lift tickets, travel to the mountains, lodging and everything else, saving a couple bucks on salvage equipment is silly.

 

Many of us did survive long skinny skis on crappy bindings and the occasional breakdown to have lots of fun on the hill. Do what you enjoy.

 

Eric

post #15 of 22

I have old bindings and still ski them, but I maintain and check them.  If they break or I get injured it is my own fault.  That said, the OP said he bought his new skis and bindings as "New OLD stock" from a business going out of business.

 

First off hope he didn't pay too much.

 

Secondly, I agree, bindings junk them not worth the risk.  Skis, well I have 203's with old bindings, but my new stuff is a lot shorter and skis better, so consider DEMO'ing good equipment until you find what you like.

 

Good luck on this one.

post #16 of 22

Yeah, I agree; scrap those bindings.  There are old bindings I will ski on, but those ones don't make my list.

 

Old-skis?  Depends on the ski.  Old Fischer Atomic and Kæstle speed skis still rock if you know how and aren't afraid to use 'em at their design speeds.  I think I would enjoy the old Dynastar SL (with the chicken heart vibration absorbers) if they were in the same condition as when I demoed the new ones back in the day), but I would much prefer a modern SL to the old SL   Same with GS, modern Gs is much better.

post #17 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHRISfromRI View Post

Well, with the notable exception of KneeBindings - which "may" in fact actually protect your knees, since that's what they were specifically designed to do. I have +376 ski days on them with NO knee injuries over the past 6 seasons...  

Jeez Chris, I have decades on Looks, Markers, Tyrolia to similar good effect. Hmmmmm.
post #18 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossi Smash View Post

There are many things that may (or may not) cause a binding to not work as designed. One greatly overlooked issue is boot sole wear/damage. Dried out lubrication, damage caused by corrosion, improper set up, physical damage. A good shop can check for proper DIN settings with torque test to verify operation.

The sad part is that many shops will not even test a binding that has fallen off the indemnified list. But they will sell you something new. The list only tells you what the manufacturer no longer stands behind, not what will no longer function as designed.

btw, bindings are not likely to save your "knees". They provide a level of protection to the bones not connecting tissue. You pay your money and take your chances.

Well, if you want to take care of the shop's legal fees, liability, and insurance, knock yourself out! .. That's the whole hokey pokey there, Rossi, but I think you know this already
It only takes one law suite to close the doors... ah, but we can still shop on the internet.
post #19 of 22

I wouldn't recommend using these bindings, for two reasons.  Building on and adding to what's been said above....

 

1) Generally, no shop will do a release test on non-indemified bindings and, as has already been mentioned, these are no longer indemnified.  It's good practice to do a release test on any new (to you) binding, but it's particularly critical with older bindings since, depending on how they've been stored, the springs may have gotten weak (perhaps unlikely if the bindings were left with the DIN screws all the way out, but still).  If the springs have gotten weak, the actual release force can be significantly less than what's indicated in the window. I've experienced this even on bindings that were still indemnified.  In the absence of a release test, there's no way to check this.

 

2) You don't know the extent to which the plastic may have weakened over time.  Weakened plastic means you could get an inadvertent release if a piece of the housing breaks.  This represents a risk not to your knees specifically, but more generally to your body as a whole.

post #20 of 22
Thread Starter 

Guys, Didn't mean to start a revolution but glad for all the feed back. Now I did not do detail here is more,I installed these with the Marker Tech manual for each binder in front of me.We did use the Marker test equipment to check & test the binding. This is the foot and replica leg bone with the Marker torque wrench just like would be done the day they were made.They tested out for my age ,weight and ability in another manual and they were on the money.I have been taking care of my stuff always and release them to 0 when I get home service them and go in my hobby room in the house. Never spent a night anywhere but in the house.Yea I'm single.I skied the 195 M7's first 2 years ago by the way we paid $75 New rossi M7's and bindings out the door. It rec' ed toe setting of 5 only prob on 2 hard turns I blew out of the toe so lets say they work. I jacked them to 7 this year and no problem.Love the feedback about fwd pressure did you leave the setting and do a nickel or dime in on the screw? I would love to hear more on this.Also our thinking was these would be great deep powder skis, kevelar etc little softer than my Rossi SM Comps and I, we love long skis more stable at high speeds and all we have ever ever used I did get a pair new type 180 wide ride dang near killed my self on 'em my nephews son will get those this year! Keep the cards and letters coming I Like the fwd pressure screw I love it.

post #21 of 22
Thread Starter 


Try a pair of Rossi SM Comp's you couldn't take 'em from me with a gun!

post #22 of 22
Thread Starter 


Hawk 56 Does the select switch work you know up top steep an the deep as you go down pack powder or broken powder so would ya switch? Gimme more Skiongrits and I guess crappy long skis! 

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