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please help on my daughters transition sequence - Page 2

post #31 of 37

She has a late transition.  Look at how far to the next turn she does the pole plant/tap.   Watch Shiffrin or Ligety and you can see how early they touch (in some cases just passing the gate and not half way to the next gate).


The hardest thing I had to learn many years ago was an early transition make for faster times (and less likely to get behind on gates) and that was straight skis.  The same still hold true today.


The details of how to get there I'll leave to others to better describe on what to do as it can be a lot of different factors that cause the lateness.

post #32 of 37
Originally Posted by zentune View Post

   @ski-parent, that's a cool montage--wish I possessed the technical wizardry to be able to make those ;). What I see in these frames--and I 'm assuming this is fairly indicative of her skiing in general--is a lack of commitment to the outside ski which is evident from the very first frame and a very tall transition. Skiers such as this typically follow the skis too much with their upper bodies and have a leaning in type of appearance. In your daughter's case, it appears as if the inside ski dominance and lack of angultaion and separation is making the release of her cm into the new turn more difficult than it needs to be so she has to "thrust" her hips/upper body up, and over her skis/feet in order to enter the new turn--hence the tall stance in transition.


   First, I would work on drills that encourage more angulation and separation, such as pivot slips, picture frame drills, making short radius turns down a narrow corridor wherein the upper body faces down the fall line the whole time, and tuck turns. If you're not sure what these are, they can all be found on the ussa website or on youtube.


  I would also work on her outside ski dominance (once the drills above have been worked on) by skiing outside ski to outside ski. This will be a good drill for her as it will be very difficult for her to perform them correctly unless she has adequate amounts of separation and angulation, and ALSO because it will help her learn better footwork in her transitions. Outside to outside is pretty obvious by the name, but to do them correctly you have to transfer weight to the new outside ski while it's still the uphill ski (while it's still on it's little toe, or inside edge). As this is happening, the new inside leg is relaxed, and the ski is lifted off of the snow. If her upper body is position correctly by maintaining an anticipated stance (again, separated and angultated), this relaxation of the new inside leg will pull her mass into the new turn, tipping the new outside ski onto it's big toe edge, and allow her to enter the new turn cleanly and with much less "coming up", or getting tall. 


  Work on these on a gentler slope than she may be used to that is plenty wide so she has room to feel comfortable with them. I don't have time to find videos for these drills--perhaps on of my colleagues here could help?? :)


  Hope all (or at least some) of this makes sense...gotta go!




This really says it all. Great post with accurate and simple advice. Btw, even the very top level of racers work on these drills often and with serious dedication. This is what proper coaching should sound like.

post #33 of 37

sorry - as i go over my posts again, they do seem a little dry... or a little more than a little... :(


as you address the motivation, you can start to develop her range of motion in all planes - that's usually the fight at this age and she will not easily do that in gates. needs free-skiing. here are some ideas:




also, like i mentioned, her balance needs developing, here's some more ideas for that:




so next time you get her skiing, put maybe 1 hour of work into these and the rest fun skiing of some kind, like glades or bumps which challenge these skills and develop them while having fun with friends.


in between ski camps, enhance her balance in dryland, that is priority number 1. gymnastics or mountain biking and/or skating. tennis is very good.






i was trying to get across the need for skills before training advanced technical stuff. you can show her how to get forward five ways and if she can't or won't move, all you do is you just get her even more frustrated. this is what was obvious in the first photo you sent.


if you read the skier development model you will see that at her age they should not spend more than 25% of training time in gates. short story: excessive gates retard skill acquision. long story: http://www.racerkidz.com/wiki/Blog:Razie_Ski_Blog/Post:Gate_training_is_overrated


if you are going to take away just one thing from all i've said, it should be this:



Even if you're seriously interested in a racing future, I know it from WorldCup-level coaches that at the ages of 12-14, the most critical aspect of a future ski racer is proper acquisition of technical free skiing skills in different snow conditions. Race results do not matter as they have largely no bearing on their future performance at 16 and up.

Edited by razie - 3/17/14 at 9:19am
post #34 of 37



The last quote, very well said.  The ability to adjust to any condition, is something that few instructors or coaches teach on a regular basis (except for a few).


This applies to both regular skiing and racing alike.


Thumbs Up

post #35 of 37

My 2 cents here as I am not a pro.


Originally Posted by ski-parent View Post

Dear All




My 2 cents here as I am not a pro.


My first remark is there is no hip angulation photo 1-2. The turn has no power.

Second remark:  In photos 3-8, the left knee keeps being extended. No avalement, no extern knee bending here. It is not a fault, no need for this as the last turn had not short radius.


Conclusion: I would say this type transition here is correct. Because there is no g-forces in the last shaping phase with no reaction of the support. In GS we dont see these transitions often as the radius of turns are generally short.


You must consider that exit different types of transition. The main are :

1/ the seat position one,

2/ the centered position one (less sat),

3/ the oriented and straightened one (the one of the photo) while no reaction of the support.

post #36 of 37
Thread Starter 

Dear All


I'm glad to have your advices and to the point explanations. They were sound and clear.


As I said before, I've no technical or practical knowledge about skiing but your explanations were so dummy proof that they made me more informed spectator at least.


For my part, as a parent, I saw that, I should have my daughter engaged in more FUNdamental issues of skiing, before putting her between gates. It seems, we put the cart in front of the horses so far :snowfight


For the technical issues, I think we were unfortunate in terms of coaching for they didn't  put forth none of the issues you showed clearly. Most of all, I'm deeply surprised by their training approach that they put her 100% of the times in the gates since she was 6. (But the more surprising issue is that my daughter didn't complain for this type of training even once, and she kept saying "I love skiing")... poor girl didn't even have a chance to learn that there were better and enjoyable ways of this sport ;)


For the coaching, I think I will shift to a new ski school which better suits my daughter's needs... However, since I'm not capable of even conveying your technical comments to her coaches to be, I'll definitely get them read this forum so that they will be informed instantly... (Thanks to you all for saving me from a big hassle :))... At the end of the day, of course I'm aware of my daughter will not be a Vonn, Mancuso or Maze; Surely he will stop even racing in the midst of life's the hustle and bustle. Thus, it's better for her to remember these days as a fun with a smile in her face, instead of remembering fighting anxiously with the gates like don quixote.


Moreover, thanks to your help, I also reasoned that, this approach may even improve its milk league racing results.


Thanks to you all





Edited by ski-parent - 3/20/14 at 5:44am
post #37 of 37
Smart man. Do not,completely forgo the racing aspect of,it - it is something they will remember andbe proud of, bit more towards 12 or older. That big pile of medals onthe wall is something i dont have but my kids seem to like. Also the lifestyle and the friends.

A mix is great. Gates help learning if used in moderation.

I fond that at his age it isnot really easy to tell what they really enjoy... Not from what they say anyways.

she could be a Vonn or rather a Maze though - don't ever think she can't. The question you need to ask yourself,is are you ready for that path? Is she?

cheers and good luck!


about the Austrian coaches, I would not do that, but it is explainable though...
Edited by razie - 3/20/14 at 4:53am
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