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Dilemma: Which skis for the Academy?

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
OK,
Here's the dilemma:
At last year's academy, Nolo recommended that I go for shorter skis. I now have two pairs of skis, but will only bring one pair with me.
My K2 Axis X Pros are good all mountain and 181.
Salomon 3Vs are excellent on piste and 165, so a bit short for playing in powder (which I hope to do at the gathering in JH, and afterward in Utah)
Now, if I take the 3Vs, I could always borrow/rent/demo a pair of powder skis while there. If that's the case, then maybe I should just sell my K2s, and next season (04/05) consider buying a pair of pow skis, or just rent them from now on.

What do I do?

(corrected for terrible spellimg ( ) error)

[ November 12, 2003, 08:08 AM: Message edited by: Wear the fox hat ]
post #2 of 25
well if I may opine... K2s rule and Salomons suck. I mean - IMHO... [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img]

the real question is how tall are you? can you carve with the Axis?

what are the comparisons (tip/waist/tail) of both skis?

me - I own 1 TRUE carving ski (waist is 64) and then an all-mountain ski (waist is 70)... that's because I live in the east and spend most of my time in hardpack or groomers - or BOTH (what a treat). if I lived out west, I'd own a 70 and 78 probably.

therefore, I say - own what you use most - rent what you want OCCAISIONALLY.

kiersten
post #3 of 25
Thread Starter 
Kieli,
I am roughly 1.80m tall (just under 6ft), and weigh in at 78kg (about 175lb, I think)
Yes, I can carve on the K2s.
I would have agreed with you about Salomon until last year when I demoed the 3V, along with several other brands, and found them to be an excellent ski.

I'm not sure of the dims of the skis. Maybe someone else will post that info.
post #4 of 25
This poll is FLAWED! The best solution is not presented IN the poll, which is to borrow skis. (It's mentioned in poll setup.)

Borrow if you can. As long as you don't score the base skidding on those rocks before you go over those cliffs, anyone local would be happy to loan you a pair.
post #5 of 25
Fox,

Sell the K2s in London, bring proceeds along with the 3Vs, win a pair of K2s at the Academy and tell the factory what length you prefer.

[ November 12, 2003, 06:56 AM: Message edited by: nolo ]
post #6 of 25
Thread Starter 
so, Nolo, what's the likelihood that I would be the winner this year? (and can we make it that the winner last year can't win them this year)
(and which ones should I go for - I'm drawn towards the K2 Pep Fujas pro models a.k.a. 'fujatives')
(if only there was someone who could 1. Guarantee that I'd win, and 2. Advise me from her experience which ski to go for)



S
post #7 of 25
Hang on a second, are there free skis to be won at the ESA? what are the criteria?

On another topic: Fox, any particular reason for twice spelling dilemma with an "n" instead of the second "m"? Liquid, perhaps?
post #8 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Cedric:
Hang on a second, are there free skis to be won at the ESA? what are the criteria?
Yes, there are free skis to be won. The criteria simple are:
1. Have been a member number below 1800.
2. Have made more than 5800 posts.
3. Live in England.

Quote:
Originally posted by Cedric:
On another topic: Fox, any particular reason for twice spelling dilemma with an "n" instead of the second "m"? Liquid, perhaps?
Yes, PEBKAC.
post #9 of 25
Depends on what you want from your skis.

If you like the short, quick, responsive characteristics of the 3V, then bring them. If you like the long, damp, less responsive K2, then bring them. But the K2s will be superior in crud and cut-up conditions. Frankly, the K2s are better suited for Snowbird & JH, in my opinion.

Either way, I would not worry about powder. The chances of getting tons of powder is small, but if the snow gods bestow such a gift upon you, then rent some fat skis and enjoy the ride.

[img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]
post #10 of 25
Quote:
The chances of getting tons of powder is small
Pardon me, but to get 500 inches of snowfall annually means that the chance of getting tons of powder at Snowbird/Alta is actually higher than just about anywhere on earth!

Cedric, we are on a swag hunt at the moment. If you know of any companies selling valuable goods that would like to give some of it to us to give away to you, by all means, give 'em up.

Fox, You might take a look at the Axis XT in a 174, but I still think the 174 XP is your K2 ski of choice. "Fujativ"??? Do you possibly mean the Public Enemy?
post #11 of 25
Quote:
Originally posted by Wear the fox hat:

Yes, PEBKAC
I've lead a sheltered life, what the hell is PEBKAC?

I didn't vote because I'm non-committal. And I think the poll is flawed.

1) Bring the skis that you are confident you can ski (well) in the widest variety of conditions.

2) Bring the pair that you selected in number one above and rent, beg, borrow or steel whatever ski you need to fill any void left by number one.

3) Bring both pair in a bigger ski bag

Sorry, somehow I don't think I've been very helpful. I'm still trying to suss PEBKAC. :

IG
post #12 of 25
this is cracking me up... Fujativ/public enemy... I love the new breed of skis - man I WISH I had a reason to get a set of PHAT LUVs... but it makes no sense for this Boston girl.

This thread is making me think of my own friend who is going west for about a month this winter and he wants to buy some super FAT skis - like the B3/pocket rocket/seth pistol... etc. I, being a woman, have MUCH MORE common sense about things like money and skis - [img]tongue.gif[/img] so, I advised that he buy practical skis and rent the fatties.

(I may have also asked if he'd been smokin some fatties when he went on about how he needed a ski with a waist of 80 or more!!!)

Carry on,
kiersten
post #13 of 25
PEBKAC

problem exists between keyboard and chair

hahahahahahahahaha
post #14 of 25
Ah, not unlike a loose connection between the seat and the steering wheel, in a racing car. Sorry, no known acronym.

IG
post #15 of 25
Quote:
Originally posted by nolo:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />The chances of getting tons of powder is small
Pardon me, but to get 500 inches of snowfall annually means that the chance of getting tons of powder at Snowbird/Alta is actually higher than just about anywhere on earth!

</font>[/quote]You are right! I guess I was thinking about last year at the Academy when we only had one day of snow (with only 10 inches). I hope that was an exception.
post #16 of 25
WTFH- Bring the K2's. You're a big boy, you can make 'em work. And if it dumps, you won't need to waste time at the rental shop looking for fatties.

Keili- You may be surprised to know that 80 mm underfoot is not nearly as unusual or inappropriate as you think for a western skier. Hell PR's have 90mm waist and I was doing fine on piste with them. 1080's and K2 PE's both have 80mm (or so) underfoot, and are widely regarded as all mountain performers.

On the other hand, 65mm waists are generally laughed at. [img]tongue.gif[/img]
post #17 of 25
Quote:
Originally posted by kieli:
this is cracking me up... so, I advised that he buy practical skis and rent the fatties...
While your recommendation is the standard advice given east coast skiers heading west, I do precisely the opposite - I bring a pair of lite-fats, and rent anything else I need. I have done this for the last few years, and have been extremely happy with the results.

When I go out west and conveniently can only bring one set of skis along, I do what many of the locals do and bring my 184 10ex's (83 mm wide). These days, many of the locals use mid-80's skis as their do-everything-day-in-day-out ski. If the snow becomes hardpacked, or if I need a serious carving fix, I can easily rent some appropriate sub-70 mm ski. OTOH, if I know that a huge dump is imminent, I may *try* to rent something fatter, but its no great loss if I can't. Modern 80 - 90 mm skis cover a wide range of typical western conditions very well. They do surprisingly well on groomers, and are absolutely spot on for those days when the snow is comming in dribs and drabs, 5 - 10 inches every night.

70 mm (and under) skis are always available for rent and are cheap, whereas fatties can be almost impossible to find the night before a major dump. With my 80+ mm skis, I cover the widest range of conditions centered around typical conditions for the area. Xdog is exactly right that 80 mm skis are becoming the prefered 1 ski quiver for many western skiers.

For example, I noticed the msg from Pman (in Seattle) just posted (November 12, 2003 03:53 PM) in this thread that he would have bought a Rex as a one ski quiver, but, instead went with a two ski quiver: SX11's (under 70 mm), and Sugar Daddies (over 90 mm). His approach is essentially the same as what I do.

Of course, if I'm going to get more than just a day or two of skiing tacked on to the end of a business trip, I'll probably bring two pair, a 68 mm wide pair with 14 m sidecut radius, and my Explosivs (95 mm fatties), and then truly have all bases covered.

Tom / PM

-------------------------------------------------
(This "PS" section added in edit.)

One final comment - You should be very careful about extrapolating from your own experience using normal width skis in soft snow when making ski recommendations for (potentially) much heavier guys. Here's why:

Lets assume that there is some validity to the oft-heard claim that mid-80's skis are the best thing since sliced bread for average weight guys (say, 175 lbs) in soft snow. Then, one can estimate the width of a ski that would give the same amount of float to a skier of a different weight. Here's a table that does this:

(lbs)..(mm)
100.....49
120.....58
140.....68
160.....78
180.....87
200.....97
220....107
240....117
260....126

Thus, if you are a little slip of a 120 lb woman, you will have the exact same float on a 58 mm wide pair of skinny boards that Mr. Average Guy (at 175 lbs.) has on his 85 mm "lite-fat" skis.

Basically, on any sub-70 mm ski currently being sold (because they are all greater than 60 mm), Ms. 120 Pounder will sink in less than Mr. Average Guy on his Rex's, so its to be expected that a light weight person might not fully appreciate the need for fatties (at least from direct personal experience).

At the other end of the spectrum, at 210 lbs, I will need to be on 100 - 105 mm boards to achieve the same float as Mr. Average Guy on his sticks.

BTW, in calculating this table, I assumed that all people carry about an extra 12% of their weight in boots, skis, bindings, clothing (ie, about 20 lbs for a 175 lb guy).

Bottom line - unless your friend is a really small guy, he probably has a valid point in wanting to be on wide skis in soft snow. And, yes, we have all skied powder in 207 cm long, 64 mm straight sticks from the past, so fatties are not absolutely required, but sure are fun and make marginal snow much easier. This issue has been discussed *many* times before on Epic, for example, most recently:

http://www.epicski.com/cgi-bin/ultim...=004721#000009 (particularly, my msg posted November 10, 2003 11:34 AM in that thread)

And also, about a month ago:

http://www.epicski.com/cgi-bin/ultim...c;f=1;t=004585 and

http://www.epicski.com/cgi-bin/ultim...1;t=004571;p=1

HTH,

Tom / PM

[ November 13, 2003, 12:20 AM: Message edited by: PhysicsMan ]
post #18 of 25
Thread Starter 
Nolo,
The Fujativs are featured in Freeze Photos

They are the red skis that Gear Girl Vanessa is holding.

(Now that's what I call a Ski Rack!)

S

[ November 13, 2003, 01:18 AM: Message edited by: Wear the fox hat ]
post #19 of 25
Aha--an old model, Fox.

You might look at E-quipment.
post #20 of 25
Thread Starter 
She doesn't look THAT old to me.


S
post #21 of 25
post #22 of 25
Thread Starter 
Can I call a major FLAWED on this poll?

Well, the idiot that I am had got a crucial fact wrong! d'oh!

I was going to a ski shop today to think about getting a big snowboard bag to carry my 3Vs in since the bindings and riser plates make them too big to squeze into my ski tube.
So, I thought I'd better measure them to make sure I got a bag big enough.
That's when I realised the mistake in my poll. They aren't 165s, they're 176s!
d'oh, d'oh, d'oh, d'oh, d'oh, d'oh!

So, the question is now the difference between a 176 Salomon that is excellent on piste (haven't tried it off piste)
Or the 181 K2s which are good all mountain.

S
post #23 of 25
you'll be in utah, where there's a good chance that "piste" might well be covered in soft white stuff, and then jackson hole with a day at targhee, both known for mostly off-piste characteristics, with possible very variable snow conditions. the above description of your skis would seem to be a pointer in the right direction.

go with the wider skis.

[ November 21, 2003, 10:15 AM: Message edited by: ryan ]
post #24 of 25
Take your short skis for piste conditions. If you get a powder day in Utah you can rent something fat. When you get to Jackson you can borrow my 186cm Salomon Supermountains for powder days (they're mounted with 912Ti rental bindings).
post #25 of 25
Quote:
Originally posted by Wear the fox hat:
Can I call a major FLAWED on this poll?

Well, the idiot that I am had got a crucial fact wrong! d'oh!

I was going to a ski shop today to think about getting a big snowboard bag to carry my 3Vs in since the bindings and riser plates make them too big to squeze into my ski tube.
So, I thought I'd better measure them to make sure I got a bag big enough.
That's when I realised the mistake in my poll. They aren't 165s, they're 176s!
d'oh, d'oh, d'oh, d'oh, d'oh, d'oh!

So, the question is now the difference between a 176 Salomon that is excellent on piste (haven't tried it off piste)
Or the 181 K2s which are good all mountain.

S
Say it ain't so Fox! SL skis in 176cm? : You just lost all fun that short SL skis bring to the table. At 176cm the 3V is probably a nice cruising ski however. But the K2 is probably just as good and it can handle the big snow.
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