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Brushing dull edges?

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 

I enjoyed my first foray into tuning today - well, actually, hot waxing three pairs of skis.

The FX 84's are new. I had VIST plates mounted with the edges set to 1/3. They came back from the shop sharp as a razor. 

I did several wax cycles and used a Artech brass oval brush between coats. After doing the work, it is my sense that the edges are not as sharp as they were before the waxing process. And I have fastidiously cleaned the edges of all accumulated wax. Imagination, or can brass brushing actually well-tuned edges? If so, is there a way to prevent this in the future?

Thanks

D1

post #2 of 15
No, proper brushing won't dull the edges. First couple turns on snow will clean the wax off the edges right away and you will get a sense of the real sharpness.
post #3 of 15
I wouldn't use the brass between wax cycles. Usually the horsehair and maybe the fine steel. I find I am using my brass brush less and less, typically only a couple of passes before waxing
post #4 of 15
I don't know, I'm an enthusiastic brusher, even with my brass brush, but haven't seen any marks on the edges (or base, for that matter). That makes sense because brass or copper is much softer than steel. My guess is that you either didn't really get all of the wax off, or have an idea of what sharpness is that doesn't jive with what a good tune feels like. I was dubious the first time I skied on my own tune because my skis didn't feel razor sharp, but my edges certainly felt as sharp as they ever have from a shop tune. It seems that the reason I cut my hands on freshly tuned skis was likely because the hanger (burr) wasn't removed.
post #5 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotsSkier View Post

I wouldn't use the brass between wax cycles. Usually the horsehair and maybe the fine steel. I find I am using my brass brush less and less, typically only a couple of passes before waxing


Agreed.  Brass isn't my choice for brushing out wax coats.  Stiff horsehair (4mm) is my usual choice, but I also have a favorite brush that is a combo of horsehair and bronze (softer than brass).

post #6 of 15

it's like rock, paper, scissors.

 

the ski edge is harder than nylon, horsehair, boars hair, brass, bronze, fine stainless steel, etc.

 

brushes, or technique typically do not dull the work that you have done on the side edge.

 

jim

post #7 of 15

Ski edge is much softer than fine drawn stainless wire.

You are right about the other materials.

I don't use steel brushes on newly sharpened skis but I think this is probably overcautious.

Still, it takes a lot of work to get those edges sharp, why not use brass or bronze and be safe.

post #8 of 15
Thread Starter 
Thanks all.It could be that there is still is wax residue on the edges that dulls them to the touch.
Notice I did not ask about brass vs stainless vs horsehair vs nylon brushes. That is getting, I have learned, into the realm of which tastes better, chocolate or vanilla.
Chocolate, of course.
D1
post #9 of 15
Don't you scrape the edges using the notch in your scraper?
post #10 of 15

Take a loupe (X10) and look at your edges. I do this frequently to see how my tools are working and more specifically to see if I am working my tools properly. It is really easy to see the effect of files, stones and ceramic on your edges with a loupe. You'd be surprised how rough a smooth edge looks at X10 power. In your current situation, I bet you a beer :beercheer: you'll see some wax on the edges. Remember that you need to remove the wax from the base edge as well as the side edge to be able to feel the true sharpness of your edges.

post #11 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

Don't you scrape the edges using the notch in your scraper?
Yep.
post #12 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MastersRacer View Post

Take a loupe (X10) and look at your edges. I do this frequently to see how my tools are working and more specifically to see if I am working my tools properly. It is really easy to see the effect of files, stones and ceramic on your edges with a loupe. You'd be surprised how rough a smooth edge looks at X10 power. In your current situation, I bet you a beer beercheer.gif  you'll see some wax on the edges. Remember that you need to remove the wax from the base edge as well as the side edge to be able to feel the true sharpness of your edges.
MR, will find out tomorrow. Just arrived at Powder Mountain. On the slopes tomorrow for what would pass in my home state as early spring conditions.
D1
post #13 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by starthaus View Post
 

it's like rock, paper, scissors.

 

 

Uhh, paper covers rock! 

 

I love your videos and advice, Jim, but I think your choice of analogy is confusing. 


Edited by Elvo - 3/2/14 at 12:17pm
post #14 of 15

try looking at it from 10,000 ft. what i am trying to get across is that the hardest material wins. meaning as long as whatever brush you are using is softer than the edge, the brush will not change the edge finish.

 

so if you that are taking rock, paper, scissors literally, lets change it to a new game called rock, scissors. in my new game rock always beats scissors.:cool

 

as you were…….

 

jim

post #15 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by starthaus View Post

try looking at it from 10,000 ft. what i am trying to get across is that the hardest material wins. meaning as long as whatever brush you are using is softer than the edge, the brush will not change the edge finish.

so if you that are taking rock, paper, scissors literally, lets change it to a new game called rock, scissors. in my new game rock always beats scissors.cool.gif

as you were…….

jim
Hmm, we had a name for kids like you on the playground...
wink.gif
BTW, Jim, I like your tuning videos, even watched a few two or three times checking out one detail or another, and I haven't even seen the ones on waxing yet. They're short and concise but include the important details, and it was a relief to finally have an unobscured, well-lit, zoomed-in view of the tools, exactly how you hold them, how that affects how they work, and clearly seeing you perform exactly what you were describing while you described it. For instance, I must have watched half a dozen videos using the SVST Pro Edge beveler, but never got a sense of how much bigger and beefier it is compared to the lightweight Wintersteiger version I have. So thanks for going to the trouble of putting them together!
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