or Connect
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Ski Training and Pro Forums › Ski Instruction & Coaching › Need some tips for my kid - Initiating turn on steeper terrain
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Need some tips for my kid - Initiating turn on steeper terrain

post #1 of 12
Thread Starter 
My son, 10, is a decent blue skier. He can make parallel turns, some skidded some carved. The problem is when he goes down black terrain,he reverts back to wedge skiing (Cornice in Mammoth), gets back seat and looks like a beginner again. I get that it is more challenging. He likes to ski black runs and bumps, but when he does more challenging terrain, he does wedge christies. I've had him carve a traverse across the hill, but that doesn't get him to initiate a parallel turn. Any ideas on exercises to get him to initiate a parallel turn on steeper terrain?

Thanks in advance.
post #2 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffc7 View Post

My son, 10, is a decent blue skier. He can make parallel turns, some skidded some carved. The problem is when he goes down black terrain,he reverts back to wedge skiing (Cornice in Mammoth), gets back seat and looks like a beginner again. I get that it is more challenging. He likes to ski black runs and bumps, but when he does more challenging terrain, he does wedge christies. I've had him carve a traverse across the hill, but that doesn't get him to initiate a parallel turn. Any ideas on exercises to get him to initiate a parallel turn on steeper terrain?

Thanks in advance.

 

 

my advice is to ingrain inside foot tipping on easier terrain untill there is nothing else he knows how to do. if you watch closely in his 'parallel" turns on easier terrain are they really parallel turns? 

 

also does he actually like steeper terrain? 

post #3 of 12
Thread Starter 

Yes, they are real parallel turns. Both feet steering into the turn. Skidding mostly on the finish of moderate blue runs. On easier blue runs and green, he tips the skis over and can carve a turn. He likes to look back at the railroad tracks. He likes to do black runs, partly for ego and partly because his little brother (8) loves doing them. What his little brother lacks in form he makes up in aggressiveness. That guy is fearless. Big bro has much better form, but skis cautious and slower.

post #4 of 12

Instead of having him traverse, have him continue his turn until he has turned back uphill and bled off some speed, then begin his new turn. 

 

Most likely, he has not been finishing his turns, meaning that he is beginning the new turn near the fall line, which will further increase his speed, add to his nervousness, and result in the "Death Wedge". 

 

As for the wedge christies, he is afraid to soften the new inside (uphill) ski at the beginning of the turn, which would allow the parallel to develop . On moderate terrain, have him practice softening the new inside ski, developing a fair amount of bend to the knee and flexion will result.  If he can learn this softening, the ski will want to match its partner, and create flexion to match the pitch he is on.  Then the turn will come around easily. 

 

Surfdog

post #5 of 12

Have him practice sideslipping. Ask him to let the tips slip faster than the tails then let the tails catch up. When he can let both tips drop down the hill together, have him initiate a turn that way.

post #6 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffc7 View Post

My son, 10, is a decent blue skier. He can make parallel turns, some skidded some carved. The problem is when he goes down black terrain,he reverts back to wedge skiing (Cornice in Mammoth), gets back seat and looks like a beginner again. I get that it is more challenging. He likes to ski black runs and bumps, but when he does more challenging terrain, he does wedge christies. I've had him carve a traverse across the hill, but that doesn't get him to initiate a parallel turn. Any ideas on exercises to get him to initiate a parallel turn on steeper terrain?

Thanks in advance.

 

Get him to use his poles to initiate turns and to turn, turn, turn…one turn leading to another. Reaching out to turn with the poles will help with the back seat and the rhythm. 

post #7 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfdog View Post
 

Instead of having him traverse, have him continue his turn until he has turned back uphill and bled off some speed, then begin his new turn. 

 

Most likely, he has not been finishing his turns, meaning that he is beginning the new turn near the fall line, which will further increase his speed, add to his nervousness, and result in the "Death Wedge". 

 

As for the wedge christies, he is afraid to soften the new inside (uphill) ski at the beginning of the turn, which would allow the parallel to develop . On moderate terrain, have him practice softening the new inside ski, developing a fair amount of bend to the knee and flexion will result.  If he can learn this softening, the ski will want to match its partner, and create flexion to match the pitch he is on.  Then the turn will come around easily. 

 

Surfdog

 

++ for Epic and surf on this.  The sideslipping drill is going to get him comfortable breaking from the fall line while maintaining a strong platform.  Probably the "right" way to do it.

 

I tried the sideslip drill with my daughter and she just couldn't seem to get it.  Lot of fresh snow, short skis, wrong temp wax (my fault), and there was just no slipping to be had.  So I went to plan B, where I had her initiate her turn by sliding the downhill foot forward and pressuring the uphill ski (the "new" downhill ski) by sliding it back from the forward / bent position it should be in during a relaxed traverse to an extended, fully weighted position in line with the COM (in kid speak, under your body).  That is the exact opposite of what the feet do in a wedge turn, where the uphill ski rides forward or even with the downhill ski until you hit the apex, when the new inside ski commits to the turn.  

post #8 of 12

I think most of us picture a sequential edge change where he is pushing the uphill ski away and holding onto the platform of the old ski. The other possibility though is that there is no platform and the sequential edge change is happening as the downhill ski slips away and opens his stance. Which one do you see?

post #9 of 12
Neither of my son's seemed to "get it" on black diamond runs until they were 11. I pushed the youngest one really hard to no avail. A year later he turns down black diamonds without a second thought and skis them well.... and it occurred to me that 11 seemed to be the same age my oldest son clicked... for what that's all worth.
post #10 of 12
Thread Starter 

There is sequential edge change. The challenge is my kids always say, "do we have to learn stuff, can't we just ski". And I respond okay. Sometimes the older one asks for tips. The little one never wants to hear it. I just want them to have fun at this stage. They are not olympic bound. My selfish goal is that they can go anywhere I go so I get to have more fun on family trips. I've tried having them do pivot slips, staying counter. They just don't want to do any tasks. They want to go down, find a little kicker and scare mom. Looking for a task that doesn't seem like a task.

 

I suspect this season a lot of the tentativeness has been because of the snow conditions. Lots of hard, fast snow in Mammoth until recently. They get about 15 days a year so hopefully it will come organically like it did for Recon's kids.

post #11 of 12

Practice doing tighter more short turns on easier terrain and using their skis to smooth out the snow by skidding, or imagining they are spreading chocolate spread or jam or whatever they like.  Play hockey stop competitions with them, again on easier terrain, as this makes them spend time in the fall line gaining speed and then losing it.  Obviously each turn on a black isn't going to be a hockey stop but if you can combine the hockey stop with their turns it will help massively.  When they are hockey stopping I get kids to imagine they are charging like a bull to help try and keep them forwards rather than on their heels.

 

Also I'll bet on steeper terrain they are crunching their bodies down as they go thru each turn so that by then end they are sitting right in the backseat on the toilet?  Get them to try and ski like giants, standing up tall, or whatever other image helps.

 

Most important thing is not to put them off it by doing drills - they are kids find a way to make it a game/challenge/ or skiing like something they like.  So if they don't like giants but really like something else big and tall then use that.

post #12 of 12
Thread Starter 

Alig, great tips. I really like the hockey stop idea since both little buggers love doing hockey stops. Thanks.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Instruction & Coaching
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Ski Training and Pro Forums › Ski Instruction & Coaching › Need some tips for my kid - Initiating turn on steeper terrain