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Mogul topic - feet pull back while absorbing - Page 6

post #151 of 163
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ugottaBkidding View Post
 

 

Let us see what an expert bump coach says

 

 

Now I'm balanced and set up to absorb the next mogul.....

I think this frame says it all: NOW I'M BALANCED.... is he flexed? NO.... he is extended. That's what's it all about. There is no feet pull back when flexing to stay in balance. The feet pull back is an outcome of extending and balance is achieved when fully extended and interacting with the mogul. Then he says he's SET TO ABSORBE THE NEXT MOGUL. Have you ever heard a mogul skier on the mountain? It sounds like this BANG BANG BANG BANG etc. Hard impact followed by a float and repeat. No time for anything else.

post #152 of 163
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TreeFiter View Post
 

The pull back is absolutely vital.  If you are leading with your feet before the impact, something needs to happen so that your feet aren't out in front as you descend the back.  If not, you will be in the back seat. Call it a pull back, a weight shift, or whatever feels right to you, but the movement we have been talking about is a must.  

 

I never said the pull back did not exist. Just that its part of extension as an ongoing process to be in balance once you hit the front side of the bump. That's when you achieve proper balance. When you are descending the back side of the bump you cant weight your skis because you are in the back seat. No matter how much you pull your feet back, if your feet are ahead of your CoM when your skis get weighted you will be caught in the back seat.

post #153 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post
 

 

I never said the pull back did not exist. Just that its part of extension as an ongoing process to be in balance once you hit the front side of the bump. That's when you achieve proper balance. When you are descending the back side of the bump you cant weight your skis because you are in the back seat. No matter how much you pull your feet back, if your feet are ahead of your CoM when your skis get weighted you will be caught in the back seat.

I think I see what you are saying, and I agree to a point.  The pull back, or whatever one chooses to call it, is happening along with flexing and extending.  It begins when you impact the bump, but doesn't end until you ski down the back, or at least when your CoM is ahead of your feet.  If you leave the ground, it must be completed before leaving the ground, or else you will land in the back seat.  

 

You are right, you can't pull back once you are on the back side of the bump.   

post #154 of 163
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TreeFiter View Post
 

I think I see what you are saying, and I agree to a point.  The pull back, or whatever one chooses to call it, is happening along with flexing and extending.  It begins when you impact the bump, but doesn't end until you ski down the back, or at least when your CoM is ahead of your feet.  If you leave the ground, it must be completed before leaving the ground, or else you will land in the back seat.  

 

You are right, you can't pull back once you are on the back side of the bump.   

 

Thumbs Up

post #155 of 163

There's some good video on the Canadian freestyle team website with some good side angles of absorption, feet pullback, etc.

 

http://www.canfreestyle.com/wiki/absorption-extension/

post #156 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by PomfretPlunge View Post

There's some good video on the Canadian freestyle team website with some good side angles of absorption, feet pullback, etc.

http://www.canfreestyle.com/wiki/absorption-extension/

Page not found?

Would be good to have a look at how the Canadians do it as they are the best bumps skiers at the moment.
post #157 of 163
Vancouver Moguls from 2010

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4sHsY9Yj4Jk

Lots of side views after the first kicker...
post #158 of 163

Another vid, this time of Sami Mustonen, a Finnish skier and part of the group  that dominated in the late 90's to early 00's. 

 

btw, the user that uploaded the vid has other segments of Sami in slo mo.Very nice if you want to see other things going on in the absorption.  

 

 


Edited by jack97 - 3/1/14 at 5:28am
post #159 of 163

Good find, Jack97. That video shows the nearly circular (relative to the body, and to the camera in this case) movement of the feet in both fore-aft and up-down planes--the "backpedal motion" that so many people seem not to understand--or to deny the existence of. 

 

Here it is again, in the clip I put together quite some time ago:

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is really not complicated, not black magic, not hard to feel, and certainly not hard to see with the right camera angle, as in the video Jack97 posted. It is hard to do if you over-think it. Even at lower speeds, bumps come too quickly and their shapes come too irregularly to "think your way through" the cycle. But those who pedal bicycles well have learned that if you simply visualize and allow your feet to move in circles, it smooths out your pedal stroke. Do the same on skis in bumps--lose any restrictions or illusions you may impose on yourself about "keeping forward," "keeping your hips over your feet," and so on, and give your feet permission to move in circles beneath your body. 

 

Now go do it!

 

Best regards,

Bob Barnes

post #160 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post
 

There is no feet pull back when flexing to stay in balance. The feet pull back is an outcome of extending and balance is achieved when fully extended and interacting with the mogul. Then he says he's SET TO ABSORBE THE NEXT MOGUL. Have you ever heard a mogul skier on the mountain? It sounds like this BANG BANG BANG BANG etc. Hard impact followed by a float and repeat. No time for anything else.

 

Chuck is one of the top mogul coaches in the US. He describes and demonstrates the foot pullback during absorption [FLEXING] starting around 1:00 in his video. Without it you end up in the back seat during the extension. Basically the end of the backpedal motion Bob mentions above.

post #161 of 163
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiatansky View Post
 

 

Chuck is one of the top mogul coaches in the US. He describes and demonstrates the foot pullback during absorption [FLEXING] starting around 1:00 in his video. Without it you end up in the back seat during the extension. Basically the end of the backpedal motion Bob mentions above.

 

I'm not saying that Chuck is wrong. Its a good cue. However, mogul skiing is based on flexing and extending and its a constant cycle of hard impact and recovering from an aft position. Trying to be in balance all the time is why people think its so difficult. You need to be able to put yourself out of balance. Just like in any kind of good skiing. Go back a few pages and read through what's been discussed and check out Bobs postings on the back pedal motion.

post #162 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post
 

 

I'm not saying that Chuck is wrong. Its a good cue.

 

Its not a cue. Its a movement. If you don't make the movement you will be aft for the next turn. PERIOD!

post #163 of 163
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiatansky View Post
 

 

Its not a cue. Its a movement. If you don't make the movement you will be aft for the next turn. PERIOD!

 

We just have to agree to disagree on this point I guess. Opinions has been swapped back and forth enough. The information is here for all of us to read. I still think that its not the feet pull back when you are flexed and unweighted that puts you in balance once you are extended and weighted against the front side of the next bump. Keep bumping.

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