and I am only questioning why the pre movement we need to make the above possible is left too" take care of itself", every other balance challenge that requires subtle fine motor adjustment in those parts is dependent on the general body muscle tone and control that is coming from "gross" motor patterning
A whole person makes a ski turn BTS :)
It's important to ask why it's called the "base of support". We can move our cm to and fro all we want but if the support is not properly placed well, then....
I think one big area of confusion/contention here is that the cm moves inside the new turn first so we should focus on the hips, right? But what helps facilitate that temporary "out of balance" state ? (I've come to dislike the term "out of balance" as it doesn't take into the account that what we are actually doing is ensuring balance in the "time domain") The placement and movements of our feet.
Without the feet taken care of first, both in the fore/aft and lateral sense, at worst no toppling will occur and at least the ability to do so will be greatly impaired or delayed. Think of someone with a greatly exaggerated stance (width, as in a wedge for instance). In this case, the cm rarely, if ever has an opportunity to "leave" the base of support and thus dynamic skiing remains out of reach. Another idea to consider here is that we move around on a largely friction-less surface so we are afforded the ability to adjust our fore/aft balancing in a somewhat unique way: by sliding the foot/feet back and forth underneath us. This is not how we typically adjust our balance in everyday life and so, takes time to learn. Even the ability to control the amount of vault resides largely in the lower limbs.
Of course these are just a couple of examples, and certainly I don't feel anyone here is suggesting that the rest of the body can be ignored. With that in mind I'll just say (as I've said before), we always speak of the cm here (I've referenced it a few times just in this post) but perhaps we fail to consider that each part of our bodies constitute the total mass--move one part and you affect your positioning in space....
it is the base zenny, which also implies there is something above in the term. I am not suggesting an either/or scenario, we don't turn with just our hips, just as we don't turn with just our feet, it is feeling the relationship between the two, which then includes the joints that influence them and so on, ultimately a whole body recognition/sensation. People claim they are not ignoring the body, yet endorse leaving anything other than feet sensation to automatic function, automatic function is based on our history of movement, and since skiing is so unique would it seem plausible that those automatic patterns are not possibly the most efficient use of the body for skiing. I know what your saying about the COM, but the whole point is motor control, want efficient feet, need efficient hips, need efficient spine, etc.
Jamt it was the poorly titled spinal engine theory thread. I believe beginners are exactly where this stuff could shine, so many reflexive protection mechanisms interfere in learning new movement, developing this sensory skill could make rapid changes in how people use themselves IMO
I see what you are saying and agree! The gross movements must be a bit proactive in anticipation of the balancing needs just like riding a bike or walking and running for that matter. Positioning the CoM over the base of support (gross movements) permits finer motor movements the ability to work most efficiently. Am I correct?
yes bud, the pre-movement, thanks for sticking with the discussion
which part do you want to discuss razie? pick a section of the vid. I see dynamic skiing with a great deal of upper thoracic segment and neck constraint and a very well refined movement pattern that is used for all types of terrain
Edited by chad - 2/20/14 at 2:40pm